Feminists destroy posters advocating human rights for men

[Shnercropolis]

what kind of weirdo puts up a poster advocating civil rights for men? I thought we always had them?

It's for recognition of abuse against men, I think. Not civil rights in general.

oh.
Carry on.

[The Joseon Dynasty]

Cool. If I saw a sign demanding "rights" for a group that already holds all the rights and privileges, I'd want to tear it down too.

I think you missed the point.

[Forsher]

what kind of weirdo puts up a poster advocating civil rights for men? I thought we always had them?

I haven't seen the posters so I'll assume the intent was equal rights for men too. That I can write that sentence without blinking says something. I won't say what because I have been struck by an urge to read all the posts here I haven't.

[Shnercropolis]

what kind of weirdo puts up a poster advocating civil rights for men? I thought we always had them?

I haven't seen the posters so I'll assume the intent was equal rights for men too. That I can write that sentence without blinking says something. I won't say what because I have been struck by an urge to read all the posts here I haven't.

if it's the way you say it, then I commend them for recognizing that men don't need their rights taken away.

[Tahar Joblis]

So TJ shows up and posts a few opinion pages and letters to the editor and then claims that this is somehow evidence that, and I quote, "to most feminists Lorena Bobbitt is no criminal."

That's a direct quote from the letter, not my own words. She has been described as a feminist folk hero; a number of so-called feminists have indeed defended her, even praised her.

Most? Debatable. Certainly the author of that letter was one, and she was not alone. But it's worth pointing out there are two senses of not criminal.

First, there is the idea that she did a good or justified thing. That's Valerie Solanas territory on the face of it; but also includes assertions of self-defense that sound reasonable until you realize that a penis is not exactly a pistol and a passed out man not exactly an imminent threat.

Second, there is the idea that while she did wrong, it was a wrong that she was driven to; she lacked agency, and was forced to commit her act by her husband's abuse. Lacking agency, she lacked responsibility; and lacking responsibility, she was not a criminal, but merely a victim.

The latter view is almost certainly more common than the former view, although I've provided proof of the existence of the former.

Yeah, this thread is now worthless.


Thats the thing TJ. When you find three instances of a wingnut writing opinion pages and letters to the editor and use them to make inaccurate and sweeping statements just to further an agenda you are pulling things out your ass. Three pieces is not a pattern.

Three instances of a letter to the editor or editorial published in the New York Times, which isn't just taking any random wingnut. A thread on cafemom.com [not exactly a weird place, just mostly female] commenting on a more recent place, with the bulk of comments supportive of the idea of chopping penises off in response to infidelity. A panel full of commentators on a TV show on a major television show, commenting on a more recent case and laughing their asses off in grand misandrist fashion as they speculate on what he did to deserve it and crack jokes about it.

That is a pattern. There is a real anti-male vein of violent hostility, and an idea that it's OK to perpetrate violence on men. That if a woman perpetrates violence on a man, he must have done something to deserve it. As is seen in this treatment of her case. As is seen in virtually all coverage of all penis-chopping incidents ever - a chorus of people searching to find a way to blame the victim.

I'm not making up the idea that Lorena Bobbitt is described as a feminist folk hero. I can produce as many links verifying that as you want. Seriously. How many newspapers and magazines contemporary to the event do you want talking about how her act received applause from a significant segment of women, including a number of feminists? Perhaps you would like to see the positive reaction from a number of feminists described in an academic journal?

Now, there were objections, but let's not pretend that the editorials and letters to the editor in the NYT didn't represent a very real vein of opinion. It did. Some said she was striking back against abuse, marital rape, etc. Others said she was jealous and vindictive and chopped off his penis because she thought he cheated on him.

[Tahar Joblis]

what kind of weirdo puts up a poster advocating civil rights for men? I thought we always had them?

I haven't seen the posters so I'll assume the intent was equal rights for men too. That I can write that sentence without blinking says something. I won't say what because I have been struck by an urge to read all the posts here I haven't.

Since nobody else seems to have done so, unless my quick readthrough missed it, and I can't be the only one who hates having to wait and watch through YouTube videos to see what's being talked about, here are the two posters mentioned in the OP.

The "men's rights are human rights" poster:
http://www.avoiceformen.com/portal/wp-c ... t-hate.pdf
The "stop violence against women, but not men, because men don't matter" poster:
http://www.avoiceformen.com/portal/wp-c ... st-men.pdf

You may find that useful in putting into context whether or not they are - or should be taken as - provocative.

[The Joseon Dynasty]

I haven't seen the posters so I'll assume the intent was equal rights for men too. That I can write that sentence without blinking says something. I won't say what because I have been struck by an urge to read all the posts here I haven't.

Since nobody else seems to have done so, unless my quick readthrough missed it, and I can't be the only one who hates having to wait and watch through YouTube videos to see what's being talked about, here are the two posters mentioned in the OP.

The "men's rights are human rights" poster:
http://www.avoiceformen.com/portal/wp-c ... t-hate.pdf
The "stop violence against women, but not men, because men don't matter" poster:
http://www.avoiceformen.com/portal/wp-c ... st-men.pdf

You may find that useful in putting into context whether or not they are - or should be taken as - provocative.

The latter poster is in bad taste. You can promote your cause without framing it as incongruous to another; suggesting that "people support women's rights but not men's rights because men don't matter" is snide, really.

[Ardunshin]

Radical Feminists need to be locked up. I am a man. I have never hurt, ridiculed, mocked, raped, abused, or been sexist toward women. But these Feminazis don't give a damn about that.

[Des-Bal]

The obvious baiting and trolling?

"Stop violence against women, but not against men, because men don't matter." Seriously, its like you and TJ got together and made that poster yourselves. People object to being slandered, misrepresented, and trolled in public. Go figure.

There's nothing troll-like about demanding to be treated equally.

Cool. If I saw a sign demanding "rights" for a group that already holds all the rights and privileges, I'd want to tear it down too.

There's the problem. There's a ridiculous idea that because men have historically held positions of power gender roles don't impact them, the law doesn't treat them unfairly and it's quite frankly bullshit.

[Harrietharmman]

I feel like I would care more if I was in the least bit surprised.

Who'd have thought that a troll might get the reaction they were looking for?

The feminists were quite clearly trolling and worse:

1. Making accusations of hating women then pretend not to have done so some 4 seconds later.
2. Claiming that censorship of other people's speech is freedom fo speech.
3. Ganging up on a guy, attacking his property whilst armed with box cutters and then later pretending to be the victims.
4. Suggesting the police should be called and then running off when they come.

The reason Sasha was recording what occurred is because she was seeking to cause a confrontation and hoping for a reaction from John. They failed and ended up looking stupid and that's why the video from her camera was never posted online. Her group is known for similar types of activities, for example blocking roads and spitting on cars then claiming police brutality and faking injuries when they get arrested.

[Acro]

These are the radical feminists, who think that men are inferior. Regular Feminists think they all sexes are equal, which is what i think

And Feminists like you, and regular Feminism are worthy of respect and support. Radical Feminists need to be locked up.
I am a man. I have never hurt, ridiculed, mocked, raped, abused, or been sexist toward women. But these Feminazis don't give a damn about that.

Im not a feminist, Im a dude.

[Choronzon]

TJ is still pretending like a letter and two opinion pieces are evidence of a massive feminist conspiracy while continuing to repeated the unsubstantiated claim that Bobbit is somehow a folk hero (three opinion pieces don't make someone a folk hero), and Des-Bal is pretending like men are oppressed by big bad women.

Aaaaand this thread is now like all the other worthless threads Hairballs and his cabal infest.

Shame, there was actually decent discussion going on for a bit.

EDIT: Seriously Hairballs, the fact that you can say with a straight face that a letter to the editor makes the claim that a majority of feminists see Bobbit as a hero "debatable" shows just how intellectually bereft your posts and your claims are. You managed to produce a journal article, too. Good for you. I can produce journal articles saying that the Holocaust never happened. Yes, I am saying your claim is as intellectually respectable as Holocaust denial. Thats how much I respect you.

[Des-Bal]

TJ is still pretending like a letter and two opinion pieces are evidence of a massive feminist conspiracy while continuing to repeated the unsubstantiated claim that Bobbit is somehow a folk hero (three opinion pieces don't make someone a folk hero), and Des-Bal is pretending like men are oppressed by big bad women.

Aaaaand this thread is now like all the other worthless threads Hairballs and his cabal infest.

Shame, there was actually decent discussion going on for a bit.

EDIT: Seriously Hairballs, the fact that you can say with a straight face that a letter to the editor makes the claim that a majority of feminists see Bobbit as a hero "debatable" shows just how intellectually bereft your posts and your claims are. You managed to produce a journal article, too. Good for you. I can produce journal articles saying that the Holocaust never happened. Yes, I am saying your claim is as intellectually respectable as Holocaust denial. Thats how much I respect you.

You seem to have a short memory, I'm a feminist. I'm not saying men are being oppressed by women I'm saying that inequality is harmful regardless of who it happen to. You have on several occasions accused me of being misogynist: This is me calling you out, point out a specific time this has happened or shut your mouth.

[Zephie]

TJ is still pretending like a letter and two opinion pieces are evidence of a massive feminist conspiracy while continuing to repeated the unsubstantiated claim that Bobbit is somehow a folk hero (three opinion pieces don't make someone a folk hero), and Des-Bal is pretending like men are oppressed by big bad women.

Aaaaand this thread is now like all the other worthless threads Hairballs and his cabal infest.

Shame, there was actually decent discussion going on for a bit.

EDIT: Seriously Hairballs, the fact that you can say with a straight face that a letter to the editor makes the claim that a majority of feminists see Bobbit as a hero "debatable" shows just how intellectually bereft your posts and your claims are. You managed to produce a journal article, too. Good for you. I can produce journal articles saying that the Holocaust never happened. Yes, I am saying your claim is as intellectually respectable as Holocaust denial. Thats how much I respect you.

You seem to have a short memory, I'm a feminist. I'm not saying men are being oppressed by women I'm saying that inequality is harmful regardless of who it happen to. You have on several occasions accused me of being misogynist: This is me calling you out, point out a specific time this has happened or shut your mouth.

Equality is a matter of perspective

[Des-Bal]

Equality is a matter of perspective

two is two regardless of where you're standing.

[The UK in Exile]

So TJ shows up and posts a few opinion pages and letters to the editor and then claims that this is somehow evidence that, and I quote, "to most feminists Lorena Bobbitt is no criminal."

That's a direct quote from the letter, not my own words. She has been described as a feminist folk hero; a number of so-called feminists have indeed defended her, even praised her.

Most? Debatable. Certainly the author of that letter was one, and she was not alone. But it's worth pointing out there are two senses of not criminal.

First, there is the idea that she did a good or justified thing. That's Valerie Solanas territory on the face of it; but also includes assertions of self-defense that sound reasonable until you realize that a penis is not exactly a pistol and a passed out man not exactly an imminent threat.

Second, there is the idea that while she did wrong, it was a wrong that she was driven to; she lacked agency, and was forced to commit her act by her husband's abuse. Lacking agency, she lacked responsibility; and lacking responsibility, she was not a criminal, but merely a victim.

The latter view is almost certainly more common than the former view, although I've provided proof of the existence of the former.

Yeah, this thread is now worthless.


Thats the thing TJ. When you find three instances of a wingnut writing opinion pages and letters to the editor and use them to make inaccurate and sweeping statements just to further an agenda you are pulling things out your ass. Three pieces is not a pattern.

Three instances of a letter to the editor or editorial published in the New York Times, which isn't just taking any random wingnut. A thread on cafemom.com [not exactly a weird place, just mostly female] commenting on a more recent place, with the bulk of comments supportive of the idea of chopping penises off in response to infidelity. A panel full of commentators on a TV show on a major television show, commenting on a more recent case and laughing their asses off in grand misandrist fashion as they speculate on what he did to deserve it and crack jokes about it.

That is a pattern. There is a real anti-male vein of violent hostility, and an idea that it's OK to perpetrate violence on men. That if a woman perpetrates violence on a man, he must have done something to deserve it. As is seen in this treatment of her case. As is seen in virtually all coverage of all penis-chopping incidents ever - a chorus of people searching to find a way to blame the victim.

I'm not making up the idea that Lorena Bobbitt is described as a feminist folk hero. I can produce as many links verifying that as you want. Seriously. How many newspapers and magazines contemporary to the event do you want talking about how her act received applause from a significant segment of women, including a number of feminists? Perhaps you would like to see the positive reaction from a number of feminists described in an academic journal?

Now, there were objections, but let's not pretend that the editorials and letters to the editor in the NYT didn't represent a very real vein of opinion. It did. Some said she was striking back against abuse, marital rape, etc. Others said she was jealous and vindictive and chopped off his penis because she thought he cheated on him.

well she isn't a criminal. you know who else agreed with her? the jury.

[Zephie]

Equality is a matter of perspective

two is two regardless of where you're standing.

No, for some equality means an equal opportunity without discrimination.
For others, it literally means equality, like communist style.

[Des-Bal]

No, for some equality means an equal opportunity without discrimination.
For others, it literally means equality, like communist style.

I was referring specifically and unambiguously to equality of opportunity not the redistribution of wealth.
Two=Two but Two=/=Too

[Zephie]

No, for some equality means an equal opportunity without discrimination.
For others, it literally means equality, like communist style.

I was referring specifically and unambiguously to equality of opportunity not the redistribution of wealth.
Two=Two but Two=/=Too

Then you would agree there is no inequality to even speak of.

[Des-Bal]

Then you would agree there is no inequality to even speak of.

No there definitely is.

[Zephie]

Then you would agree there is no inequality to even speak of.

No there definitely is.

Like what?

[The UK in Exile]

No there definitely is.

Like what?

how come men are always portrayed as bad fathers?

you never see a women on TV who is a bad father.

conspiracy!

[Zephie]

Like what?

how come men are always portrayed as bad fathers?

you never see a women on TV who is a bad father.

conspiracy!

what about tv fathers?

[The Zeonic States]

Like what?

how come men are always portrayed as bad fathers?

you never see a women on TV who is a bad father.

conspiracy!

But you can see women as bad mothers, in fact you can see plenty of those in real life

It all balances out

[The UK in Exile]

how come men are always portrayed as bad fathers?

you never see a women on TV who is a bad father.

conspiracy!

what about tv fathers?

yeah, how come TV fathers are always played by men?

good point.