Atheism and religious hate

[Republic of Liberty and Freedom]

Define intolerant. What kind of arbitrary line are we going to decide is "intolerance"?

Intolerant would be thinking other's are inferior for being different from yourself.
Intolerant would be advocating the shunning of other's simply because they are different.

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof. Religion is the one that needs to provide proof, not atheism. And I wouldn't know what kind of programs they would support, as I'm not an anti-theist. If you meet some, ask them.

Nobody needs to prove anything. It's simply a matter of faith. Why should anyone care about another's beliefs?
Just as no-one should care about another's sexuality. Yes, this is a fault of many religions, but they've come a long way over the centuries (some farther than others), they can quite easily come the rest of the way on their own as much of their congregations and many of their officials move along with the rest of society.

Why should stupidity be tolerated......especially when it interferes in society to such a negative extent.

[Europa Concordis]

Why should stupidity be tolerated......especially when it interferes in society to such a negative extent.

This is what I'm talking about.

What, exactly makes you better than the run of the mill Jew?
Do you also think you're better than all Asians? You seem to give off that vibe what with your intolerance of religion, I imagine you'd do the same for race.

[Europa Concordis]

Sure, in the thirteenth century. But I'd suggest bringing yourself up to the twenty first.

Teaching abstinence over sexual education? I'd suggest bringing them up to the twenty first.

Oh look, it's our old friend: generalization.

[Northwest Slobovia]

I can think of no thing that religious faith has done that is good and could not have been done by secular means.
I can think of plenty of evil that has been done by religious faith that either hasn't been or COULDN'T be done by secular means.


With religion, no morality, one is permitted to commit any act. You just have to say the most evil words in the english language, god wills it / god on our side etc.

The magic words "for the good of People's Liberation", "for the good of the Master Race", and much, much more frequently "for the good of nation name here" work just fine, too.

I believe religion has been, on balance, bad for humanity. My main question about it is whether it's been better or worse than secular ideologies.

[Republic of Liberty and Freedom]

Why should stupidity be tolerated......especially when it interferes in society to such a negative extent.

This is what I'm talking about.

What, exactly makes you better than the run of the mill Jew?
Do you also think you're better than all Asians? You seem to give off that vibe what with your intolerance of religion, I imagine you'd do the same for race.

LOL nice bring race into an argument about thoughts does this mean I win?

[Ostroeuropa]

Why should stupidity be tolerated......especially when it interferes in society to such a negative extent.

This is what I'm talking about.

What, exactly makes you better than the run of the mill Jew?
Do you also think you're better than all Asians? You seem to give off that vibe what with your intolerance of religion, I imagine you'd do the same for race.

I'm better than a run of the mill religious jew because I do not subscribe to unfounded beliefs, ritual child mutilation, and religious doctrine.
I am not better than the average asian because being an asian doesn't presuppose certain beliefs or acts.
Nor am I better than the average non-religious jew for the same reason.

[Vestr-Norig]

Yet, atheists still too often claim to be superior to religious both regarding knowledge and enlightenment. That will atomatically indicate to this socalled "otherness", no matter what. Claiming religious people is wrong and irreligious/atheists is right, is no different from claiming gay-marriage is wrong and prefering marriage between a man and a woman. "Otherness" will always exist, both between atheists and christians, homosexuals and heterosexuals, blacks and whites, etc. Justifying it with hatred and violence howere is quite another thing.

This is untrue. You can't insinuate otherness if it's possible to be an atheist who becomes a christian and visa versa.
You have to imply that they are fundamentally different, not incidentally different.

So, if I am right, you believe that bashing a group of people is justified if they are able yo choose wether or not to belong to this group of people? So, if I am right, it is ok to look at for example Aborigineese culture as inferior to, say, British culture, as the Aborigineese may choose which culture to live by?

[Ostroeuropa]

This is untrue. You can't insinuate otherness if it's possible to be an atheist who becomes a christian and visa versa.
You have to imply that they are fundamentally different, not incidentally different.

So, if I am right, you believe that bashing a group of people is justified if they are able yo choose wether or not to belong to this group of people? So, if I am right, it is ok to look at for example Aborigineese culture as inferior to, say, British culture, as the Aborigineese may choose which culture to live by?

Depends on the aspect you are bashing. We regularly criticize female genital mutilation and ignore the "It's my culture" argument.
You hold a special reservation for religion because if you look at it as not being special, suddenly it becomes indefensible.

[Samuraikoku]

Teaching abstinence over sexual education? I'd suggest bringing them up to the twenty first.

Oh look, it's our old friend: generalization.

Don't like it when it's used against you, eh?

[Grimlundt]

As a father with 2 daughters, I got to tell you --
Teach them about CONDOMS
Okay ...
You do not want kids catching STDs and getting pregnant ... or both at the same time ...
Seriously

[Idealismania]

I'm a Christian, but I picked the top option simply because I'm not afraid of growing overt agressiveness and obnoxiousness from some atheists. I am not afraid to be made fun of for my faith, although it does make me sad that people will judge me without knowing me because of my faith. There are some very deep and profound philosophies in Christianity as I am sure there are in others as well, and to me if a person will look down at me just because I say I'm a Christian without at least understanding those deep philosophical ideas and principles, then to me that says a lot about how close minded and ignorant they really are.

And there are many terrible things that have been done and are done in the name of religion. But saying it's ok to be a certain way to a group of people that's wrong just because people that have belonged to that group have done similar things in the past is immature and vile. So if a person recognizes that some of the things people have done in the name of religion are wrong, then do those same things, then that also says a lot about their character. And there have been and are many great and noble things done in the name of religion as well. I know of many churches and charity organizations that are founded by religious people that do great, amazing things for the community and humanity.

[The Emerald Dawn]

Opposing religion and supporting religion are both things Hitler did.

Godwin's Law.

/thread.

On a more serious note, I'd like to point out that a great many of us who had the means escaped Ireland because of clashes between two very violent factions who had their ideological roots in religion. I'd honestly hate to see violence occur simply because you do/n't believe in an invisible man.

[Europa Concordis]

Oh look, it's our old friend: generalization.

Don't like it when it's used against you, eh?

No. Especially when I'm not actually doing it.

[Europa Concordis]

LOL nice bring race into an argument about thoughts does this mean I win?

What is there to "win"?

I'm better than a run of the mill religious jew because I do not subscribe to unfounded beliefs, ritual child mutilation, and religious doctrine.

Ah, I see. So you think you're better than others because of their beliefs then?
That's what I suspected.

[Ostroeuropa]

LOL nice bring race into an argument about thoughts does this mean I win?

What is there to "win"?

I'm better than a run of the mill religious jew because I do not subscribe to unfounded beliefs, ritual child mutilation, and religious doctrine.

Ah, I see. So you think you're better than others because of their beliefs then?
That's what I suspected.

Are you better than a nazi?
(Yeh godwins, it's just the utmost example. Once you accept the principle, you see where i'm coming from.)

[Norsklow]

Now consider a bunch of real life trolls. It's not just a 'virtual' phenomenon.

If you don't want them on private property that's fine. But if they decide to do it on theirs on in public it's our job to protect their right to do so.

Bunch of folks going around yelling that all negroes are abid ( slave ) while all arabs are sayid ( master ).
Public property - marching down Main Street.

[Samuraikoku]

Don't like it when it's used against you, eh?

No. Especially when I'm not actually doing it.

Neither am I. If you read carefully you'll notice I didn't even imply "all" theists oppose contraception over abstinence.

Reading comprehension. Get some.

[Ostroeuropa]

If you don't want them on private property that's fine. But if they decide to do it on theirs on in public it's our job to protect their right to do so.

Bunch of folks going around yelling that all negroes are abid ( slave ) while all arabs are sayid ( master ).
Public property - marching down Main Street.

Fine by me. The stupidity of their proposal is self-demonstrative. They do nothing but slander arabs and give power to negroes by doing that.

[Norsklow]

Bunch of folks going around yelling that all negroes are abid ( slave ) while all arabs are sayid ( master ).
Public property - marching down Main Street.

Fine by me. The stupidity of their proposal is self-demonstrative. They do nothing but slander arabs and give power to negroes by doing that.

It didn't. They got what they demanded for quite a while. Followed by civil war. 2+ million dead before it got partially sorted.

[Ostroeuropa]

Fine by me. The stupidity of their proposal is self-demonstrative. They do nothing but slander arabs and give power to negroes by doing that.

It didn't. They got what they demanded for quite a while. Followed by civil war. 2+ million dead before it got partially sorted.

There is a difference between giving trolls what they want, and letting them talk.
A government must not enact racist policy. But nor must it ban racism.

[Republic of Liberty and Freedom]

LOL nice bring race into an argument about thoughts does this mean I win?

What is there to "win"?

I'm better than a run of the mill religious jew because I do not subscribe to unfounded beliefs, ritual child mutilation, and religious doctrine.

Ah, I see. So you think you're better than others because of their beliefs then?
That's what I suspected.

WOW what a revelation!!!! People who dont believe in the make believe and imaginary occurrences and subscribe to fact,reason and science HAVE THE AUDACITY TO THINK THEY ARE BETTER THEN RELIGIOUS PEOPLE. Are you honestly that stupid? Non religious people are automatically more intelligent by virtue of the fact they arent religious.

[Grimlundt]

All religion is NOT just a con job ...
What about Yoga? What about Aruvedic medicine?
Indeed, religion is a development of humanity's spiritual impulses -- impulses that are coeval with out symbolic powers, our ability to write and make art -- and magic!
There is more to religion than just bad science or the trickery of priests (which is, I admit, widespread) ...
Religion is fundamental to culture
If you want to see a world ruled by Disney and MacDonalds then, by all mean, go about destroying people's religions ... you will also succeed in destroying their cultures

[Lemonius]

I'm an Anti-Thiest personally; I don't like religion, for my own reasons. Perhaps I am okay with religious liberalism, but I'm greatly opposed to religious fundamentalism in all forms. I don't like people believing in (What I feel is..) essentially nothing, unfounded beliefs and the like... But hey, that can have beliefs and wear whatever pendant or religious wear you wish - But I'm opposed to the deeply fundamentalist beliefs.

But violent "secular crusades" are too far - I support the seperation of church and state, and even discouragement of religion, but violence against the religious is a step to far.

[Norsklow]

It didn't. They got what they demanded for quite a while. Followed by civil war. 2+ million dead before it got partially sorted.

There is a difference between giving trolls what they want, and letting them talk.
A government must not enact racist policy. But nor must it ban racism.

Well, after sufficient marching followed by being a great example to the rebels in Syria, they pretty much became the Government. Street politics at works.

So - is doing something about it justified?

[Republic of Liberty and Freedom]

All religion is NOT just a con job ...
What about Yoga? What about Aruvedic medicine?
Indeed, religion is a development of humanity's spiritual impulses -- impulses that are coeval with out symbolic powers, our ability to write and make art -- and magic!
There is more to religion than just bad science or the trickery of priests (which is, I admit, widespread) ...
Religion is fundamental to culture
If you want to see a world ruled by Disney and MacDonalds then, by all mean, go about destroying people's religions ... you will also succeed in destroying their cultures

Magic......

Religion is fundamental to culture...No its not....education is fundamental to culture