Atheism and religious hate

[Samuraikoku]

you do realize there have been Buddhist religious wars right?
The Kalachakra Tantra even mentions them.

I am merely stating that Theravada Buddhism, while atheist, isn't anti-theist. Thus debunking is "all atheists are anti-theists".

[Divair]

Where did I say this?
I said anti-theists are intolerant of religion, which is undeniably a fact, the very term "anti-theist" supports this.

Define intolerant. What kind of arbitrary line are we going to decide is "intolerance"?

And what is there to educate? Atheists have no proof that a deity or deities of some sort don't exist. A people's beliefs are their own, to judge someone else or to think of them as inferior to yourself because of their faith is simply wrong.
Such a person is no different from say, Robespierre or Jacques Hébert. The only difference is that they haven't actually gotten as far as murdering people and defacing places of worship yet, and probably never will.

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof. Religion is the one that needs to provide proof, not atheism. And I wouldn't know what kind of programs they would support, as I'm not an anti-theist. If you meet some, ask them.

[Europa Concordis]

Religion and all other lies do nothing but hold back human progression and instill moronic and barbaric traditions such as circumcision in the populace. Religions are used by the ruling classes to keep the lower classes down, look at Russia where organized religion Organised Stupidity is making a comeback under Putin.Its a means to control the ignorant masses,nothing more.

I'm not quite sure what to say to this, it's so silly. You mustn't have a good grasp of what goes on in the world if you think the people in the Vatican are plotting to slaughter everyone in Silicon Valley.

[Vestr-Norig]

Not at all. While some may interpret it in a way that they feel justifies violence, their means will still oppose radically to the church's stance on the issue. The same way you can say that a prominent atheist's bashing of Christians and Christianity could influence people into extreme hatred or even violence towards Christians.

We aren't insinuating otherness. Noone here calls christianity unnatural. There is a big difference.
The posistion of anti-homosexuality insinuates otherness as justification, and that encourages violence.
Pick up a psychology text book and come back with a decent rebuttal other than just flatly denying it. Until then you are attempting to just magic up a response like revelation or some shit.
It isn't an interperatation, it's a fact. Otherness increases hostility.

Now I am quite lost. I haven't said a thing about revelation or magic, have I? as a matter of fact I do study psychology in school right now. I am not denying that some people might feel that their church's stance on gay-marriage justify violence or hatred, but as said, it is an extremely small number of people who thinks this. You may see them in media, people with signs saying "God hates fags", but the vast majority of christians as well as most churches oppose to this. But I think you fail to see that this might lean both ways. If an atheist organization claims that religious people are ignorant and should be onverted from their belief, some of it's followers might use violence and express hatred towards religious precisely because of this.

[Ostroeuropa]

you do realize there have been Buddhist religious wars right?
The Kalachakra Tantra even mentions them.

I am merely stating that Theravada Buddhism, while atheist, isn't anti-theist. Thus debunking is "all atheists are anti-theists".

Babies are also atheist. I'd have gone for that as a more thorough debunking.

Incidentally christians/muslims, this means your babies go to hell if they die before they understand/accept salvation.
Isn't god awesomely just?

[Norsklow]

Not at all. While some may interpret it in a way that they feel justifies violence, their means will still oppose radically to the church's stance on the issue. The same way you can say that a prominent atheist's bashing of Christians and Christianity could influence people into extreme hatred or even violence towards Christians.

We aren't insinuating otherness. Noone here calls christianity unnatural. There is a big difference.
The posistion of anti-homosexuality insinuates otherness as justification, and that encourages violence.
Pick up a psychology text book and come back with a decent rebuttal other than just flatly denying it. Until then you are attempting to just magic up a response like revelation or some shit.
It isn't an interperatation, it's a fact. Otherness increases hostility.

*stares balefully at you* You're white. You're different.

[Ostroeuropa]

We aren't insinuating otherness. Noone here calls christianity unnatural. There is a big difference.
The posistion of anti-homosexuality insinuates otherness as justification, and that encourages violence.
Pick up a psychology text book and come back with a decent rebuttal other than just flatly denying it. Until then you are attempting to just magic up a response like revelation or some shit.
It isn't an interperatation, it's a fact. Otherness increases hostility.

Now I am quite lost. I haven't said a thing about revelation or magic, have I? as a matter of fact I do study psychology in school right now. I am not denying that some people might feel that their church's stance on gay-marriage justify violence or hatred, but as said, it is an extremely small number of people who thinks this. You may see them in media, people with signs saying "God hates fags", but the vast majority of christians as well as most churches oppose to this. But I think you fail to see that this might lean both ways. If an atheist organization claims that religious people are ignorant and should be onverted from their belief, some of it's followers might use violence and express hatred towards religious precisely because of this.

Once again you are ignoring what otherness is.
The atheist posistion isn't that christians are intrinsically flawed or different, or unnatural in some way.

[Ostroeuropa]

We aren't insinuating otherness. Noone here calls christianity unnatural. There is a big difference.
The posistion of anti-homosexuality insinuates otherness as justification, and that encourages violence.
Pick up a psychology text book and come back with a decent rebuttal other than just flatly denying it. Until then you are attempting to just magic up a response like revelation or some shit.
It isn't an interperatation, it's a fact. Otherness increases hostility.

*stares balefully at you* You're white. You're different.

Well quite. in it's basest form that's pretty much how it works.
"Not same as my species, look, he's white/brown/black/red/yellow!"
"Must be flawed, look, his skin is black."
"Holy shit, their yellow skin isn't NATURAL dammit!"

[Republic of Liberty and Freedom]

Religion and all other lies do nothing but hold back human progression and instill moronic and barbaric traditions such as circumcision in the populace. Religions are used by the ruling classes to keep the lower classes down, look at Russia where organized religion Organised Stupidity is making a comeback under Putin.Its a means to control the ignorant masses,nothing more.

I'm not quite sure what to say to this, it's so silly. You mustn't have a good grasp of what goes on in the world if you think the people in the Vatican are plotting to slaughter everyone in Silicon Valley.[/quote]
Where did I say this? I merely stated that religion is used to subjugate the uneducated lower classes.which is a fact

[Norsklow]

*stares balefully at you* You're white. You're different.

Well quite. in it's basest form that's pretty much how it works.
"Not same as my species, look, he's white/brown/black/red/yellow!"
"Must be flawed, look, his skin is black."
"Holy shit, their yellow skin isn't NATURAL dammit!"

Do you think it says anything about people who willingly and knowingly behave different?

[Ostroeuropa]

Religion and all other lies do nothing but hold back human progression and instill moronic and barbaric traditions such as circumcision in the populace. Religions are used by the ruling classes to keep the lower classes down, look at Russia where organized religion Organised Stupidity is making a comeback under Putin.Its a means to control the ignorant masses,nothing more.

I'm not quite sure what to say to this, it's so silly. You mustn't have a good grasp of what goes on in the world if you think the people in the Vatican are plotting to slaughter everyone in Silicon Valley.

Where did I say this? I merely stated that religion is used to subjugate the uneducated lower classes.which is a fact[/quote]

Merely everyone of a certain race in Rwanda.

[Samuraikoku]

Babies are also atheist. I'd have gone for that as a more thorough debunking.

He'd tell you that children don't count because they aren't "consciously" atheist.

[Ostroeuropa]

Well quite. in it's basest form that's pretty much how it works.
"Not same as my species, look, he's white/brown/black/red/yellow!"
"Must be flawed, look, his skin is black."
"Holy shit, their yellow skin isn't NATURAL dammit!"

Do you think it says anything about people who willingly and knowingly behave different?

Trolls/flamebaiters.
Don't rise to it.

[Dyakovo]

Yes.

I'm going to need at least two more cases.

Because the fact that it happens doesn't show that it happens?
But okay, although after this you'll probably just ask for more...

[Norsklow]

Do you think it says anything about people who willingly and knowingly behave different?

Trolls/flamebaiters.
Don't rise to it.

Is it justified to deal with it? Trolls and flamebaiters are an excellent example, of course.

[Grimlundt]

Religion is central to culture
Vital cultural diversity is one of the 4 pillars of sustainable development
So you should NEVER attack anybody's religion without good reason
Unfortunately, so many religious fundamentalists give such good reasons
They are also generally ignorant and bigoted, hating other people's religions or sexualities, etc.
They also generally ignorant of the contents of their own holy books
It's very sad

[Ostroeuropa]

Trolls/flamebaiters.
Don't rise to it.

Is it justified to deal with it? Trolls and flamebaiters are an excellent example, of course.

On private property sure.
But to ban trolling or flamebaiting entirely would make the internet/world a much duller place. They are good for laughs and occasionally make a good point.

[Europa Concordis]

Define intolerant. What kind of arbitrary line are we going to decide is "intolerance"?

Intolerant would be thinking other's are inferior for being different from yourself.
Intolerant would be advocating the shunning of other's simply because they are different.

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof. Religion is the one that needs to provide proof, not atheism. And I wouldn't know what kind of programs they would support, as I'm not an anti-theist. If you meet some, ask them.

Nobody needs to prove anything. It's simply a matter of faith. Why should anyone care about another's beliefs?
Just as no-one should care about another's sexuality. Yes, this is a fault of many religions, but they've come a long way over the centuries (some farther than others), they can quite easily come the rest of the way on their own as much of their congregations and many of their officials move along with the rest of society.

[Ostroeuropa]

Religion is central to culture
Vital cultural diversity is one of the 4 pillars of sustainable development
So you should NEVER attack anybody's religion without good reason
Unfortunately, so many religious fundamentalists give such good reasons
They are also generally ignorant and bigoted, hating other people's religions or sexualities, etc.
They also generally ignorant of the contents of their own holy books
It's very sad

I have a good reason, it happens to be that religion is bullshit.
EVERY religion.

[Europa Concordis]

Where did I say this? I merely stated that religion is used to subjugate the uneducated lower classes.which is a fact

Sure, in the thirteenth century. But I'd suggest bringing yourself up to the twenty first.

[Vestr-Norig]

Now I am quite lost. I haven't said a thing about revelation or magic, have I? as a matter of fact I do study psychology in school right now. I am not denying that some people might feel that their church's stance on gay-marriage justify violence or hatred, but as said, it is an extremely small number of people who thinks this. You may see them in media, people with signs saying "God hates fags", but the vast majority of christians as well as most churches oppose to this. But I think you fail to see that this might lean both ways. If an atheist organization claims that religious people are ignorant and should be onverted from their belief, some of it's followers might use violence and express hatred towards religious precisely because of this.

Once again you are ignoring what otherness is.
The atheist posistion isn't that christians are intrinsically flawed or different, or unnatural in some way.

Yet, atheists still too often claim to be superior to religious both regarding knowledge and enlightenment. That will atomatically indicate to this socalled "otherness", no matter what. Claiming religious people is wrong and irreligious/atheists is right, is no different from claiming gay-marriage is wrong and prefering marriage between a man and a woman. "Otherness" will always exist, both between atheists and christians, homosexuals and heterosexuals, blacks and whites, etc. Justifying it with hatred and violence however is quite another thing.

[Ostroeuropa]

Once again you are ignoring what otherness is.
The atheist posistion isn't that christians are intrinsically flawed or different, or unnatural in some way.

Yet, atheists still too often claim to be superior to religious both regarding knowledge and enlightenment. That will atomatically indicate to this socalled "otherness", no matter what. Claiming religious people is wrong and irreligious/atheists is right, is no different from claiming gay-marriage is wrong and prefering marriage between a man and a woman. "Otherness" will always exist, both between atheists and christians, homosexuals and heterosexuals, blacks and whites, etc. Justifying it with hatred and violence howere is quite another thing.

This is untrue. You can't insinuate otherness if it's possible to be an atheist who becomes a christian and visa versa.
You have to imply that they are fundamentally different, not incidentally different.

[Norsklow]

Is it justified to deal with it? Trolls and flamebaiters are an excellent example, of course.

On private property sure.
But to ban trolling or flamebaiting entirely would make the internet/world a much duller place. They are good for laughs and occasionally make a good point.

Now consider a bunch of real life trolls. It's not just a 'virtual' phenomenon.

[Samuraikoku]

Sure, in the thirteenth century. But I'd suggest bringing yourself up to the twenty first.

Teaching abstinence over sexual education? I'd suggest bringing them up to the twenty first.

[Ostroeuropa]

On private property sure.
But to ban trolling or flamebaiting entirely would make the internet/world a much duller place. They are good for laughs and occasionally make a good point.

Now consider a bunch of real life trolls. It's not just a 'virtual' phenomenon.

If you don't want them on private property that's fine. But if they decide to do it on theirs on in public it's our job to protect their right to do so.