Should climate change deniers be disenfranchised?

[Mavorpen]

What the fuck.

It's not that surprising. One of my science teachers in high school was a strong climate change skeptic. I'm sure they are plenty more.

Same here. And he was also...conservative! Seeing a pattern here?

[Anacasppia]

Also, I'd think awareness of climate change/environmental issues is somewhat lacking in America. Taking action to build awareness is way more agreeable than disenfranchising any persons.

small problem. education doesn't help matters. it makes it worse.
the more educated the conservative american, the more vehemently they deny climate change.

I'm afraid I have to agree that education in today's America is f**ked up. I'm actually thinking more along the lines of advertising/promotional campaigns to inform people about stuff like climate change, maybe tell them about how it can and will affect them in practical terms, and how they can help curb it.

[Divair]

It's not that surprising. One of my science teachers in high school was a strong climate change skeptic. I'm sure they are plenty more.

Same here. And he was also...conservative! Seeing a pattern here?

The free market fairy will take care of it.



When our cities are flooded, our people are dying, and our resources are gone, of course.

[Mavorpen]

small problem. education doesn't help matters. it makes it worse.
the more educated the conservative american, the more vehemently they deny climate change.

I'm afraid I have to agree that education in today's America is f**ked up. I'm actually thinking more along the lines of advertising/promotional campaigns to inform people about stuff like climate change, maybe tell them about how it can and will affect them in practical terms, and how they can help curb it.

We need better parenting. Parenting holds more weight overall than school.

[Divair]

I'm afraid I have to agree that education in today's America is f**ked up. I'm actually thinking more along the lines of advertising/promotional campaigns to inform people about stuff like climate change, maybe tell them about how it can and will affect them in practical terms, and how they can help curb it.

We need better parenting. Parenting holds more weight overall than school.

Improving parenting will be a far larger challenge than improving education.

[Mavorpen]

We need better parenting. Parenting holds more weight overall than school.

Improving parenting will be a far larger challenge than improving education.

Both are intertwined, so not really.

[Divair]

Improving parenting will be a far larger challenge than improving education.

Both are intertwined, so not really.

Improve education to improve the next generation of parents?

[Anacasppia]

Hmm I suppose it only gets worse in the future...I mean, what can we expect from parents who've been through screwed up education? They'll only pass on the 'wrong' stuff.

[Mavorpen]

Both are intertwined, so not really.

Improve education to improve the next generation of parents?

Ehhh, little more complicated.

1) Bad parenting has a major cause: poverty.
2) Poverty has a major course (not the only, mind you): not enough skilled workers.
3) Not enough skilled workers has a major cause: bad education.
4) Bad education has a major cause: Poverty
5) Poverty contributes to bad parenting.

etc.

[Divair]

Hmm I suppose it only gets worse in the future...I mean, what can we expect from parents who've been through screwed up education? They'll only pass on the 'wrong' stuff.

We need to start somewhere.

[Free Soviets]

small problem. education doesn't help matters. it makes it worse.
the more educated the conservative american, the more vehemently they deny climate change.

What the fuck.

i know, right? check this out (from a different paper - there are like a hundred of them out now):



“Scientists predict that global warming may soon have big effects on the polar regions. I will describe some of these possible effects and, for each one, please say whether it would bother you a great deal, some, a little, or not at all if it actually happened.”

the more scientifically literate the conservative, the less concerned they are about what would happen with a 20 foot rise in sea levels. and not less concerned that it will happen, which would be bad enough, but less concerned by it.

[Divair]

What the fuck.

i know, right? check this out (from a different paper - there are like a hundred of them out now):



“Scientists predict that global warming may soon have big effects on the polar regions. I will describe some of these possible effects and, for each one, please say whether it would bother you a great deal, some, a little, or not at all if it actually happened.”

the more scientifically literate the conservative, the less concerned they are about what would happen with a 20 foot rise in sea levels. and not less concerned that it will happen, which would be bad enough, but less concerned by it.

How does this happen? I can't even begin to imagine what the hell caused this.

[Mavorpen]

i know, right? check this out (from a different paper - there are like a hundred of them out now):



“Scientists predict that global warming may soon have big effects on the polar regions. I will describe some of these possible effects and, for each one, please say whether it would bother you a great deal, some, a little, or not at all if it actually happened.”

the more scientifically literate the conservative, the less concerned they are about what would happen with a 20 foot rise in sea levels. and not less concerned that it will happen, which would be bad enough, but less concerned by it.

How does this happen? I can't even begin to imagine what the hell caused this.

[Raeyh]

How does this happen? I can't even begin to imagine what the hell caused this.

Because climate change is a political issue and not an educational issue.

[Free Soviets]

small problem. education doesn't help matters. it makes it worse.
the more educated the conservative american, the more vehemently they deny climate change.

I'm afraid I have to agree that education in today's America is f**ked up. I'm actually thinking more along the lines of advertising/promotional campaigns to inform people about stuff like climate change, maybe tell them about how it can and will affect them in practical terms, and how they can help curb it.

the problem explicitly isn't that education is fucked up. we are talking about people who are in fact able to do math and read, etc. the smart ones. for non-conservatives, increased education and awareness of climate change makes them more concerned. for conservatives, it makes them more sure that climate change isn't a problem.

this is a problem of psychology and ideology, not of information.

[Divair]

How does this happen? I can't even begin to imagine what the hell caused this.

Because climate change is a political issue and not an educational issue.

I know. Many conservatives would deny just to be on the other side of the argument. But why would it increase as they become more educated?

[Anacasppia]

i know, right? check this out (from a different paper - there are like a hundred of them out now):


([url=http://img844.imageshack.us/img844/4884/figure1b.png]Image)[/url]
“Scientists predict that global warming may soon have big effects on the polar regions. I will describe some of these possible effects and, for each one, please say whether it would bother you a great deal, some, a little, or not at all if it actually happened.”

the more scientifically literate the conservative, the less concerned they are about what would happen with a 20 foot rise in sea levels. and not less concerned that it will happen, which would be bad enough, but less concerned by it.

HMM...so happens that I'm highly (if not extremely?) liberal.

[Free Soviets]

How does this happen? I can't even begin to imagine what the hell caused this.

Because climate change is a political issue and not an educational issue.

or, rather, because conservatives have a very difficult time seeing anything as something other than a political issue, and so what is a simple matter of fact becomes a matter of power struggle and tribal identity to them.

[Raeyh]

Because climate change is a political issue and not an educational issue.

I know. Many conservatives would deny just to be on the other side of the argument. But why would it increase as they become more educated?

Simply that people who aren't as educated in science would have more doubts that they simply do not understand the subject. The more educated you are, the evidence you have that your view is correct.

[Sidhae]

I find the reason that some deny climate change is because promoting it often blatantly straddles the line of propaganda with a clear business interest underneath.

For example - global warming is caused by CO2 emissions from fossil fuels, therefore CO2 emissions are bad and should be reduced to prevent warming, therefore you should buy the new Honda Insight hybrid car to do your part in saving the world. That is how propaganda works - first create a problem (either fabricate it, or use an actual problem as in this case), then promote it, "raise awareness" (by sponsoring many researches that support your problem with scientific evidence, sponsoring apocalyptic films with unbelievably-horrendous disasters caused by your problem, sponsoring advertisement campaigns raising awareness of your problem), and finally, offer a solution by selling everyone your products who are supposedly made with countering that problem in mind.

No wonder many refuse to believe in global warming, considering how much this theme has been exploited to sell something.

[Mavorpen]

Because climate change is a political issue and not an educational issue.

or, rather, because conservatives have a very difficult time seeing anything as something other than a political issue, and so what is a simple matter of fact becomes a matter of power struggle and tribal identity to them.

I think it's a matter of their faulure to recognize REAL political issues. Bill Maher put it best.

[Free Soviets]

But why would it increase as they become more educated?

the explanation we've been able to tease out from all of this is that the smarter and more educated ones are more aware of what their tribe is supposed to believe and they have more sophisticated abilities to rationalize and selectively ignore contrary evidence, etc. they are more engaged, so they know what their leaders are saying on the matter. and they know what news sources to avoid to keep from seeing stuff they disagree with presented fairly. and they know how to build giant conspiracy theories that let them believe whatever they want.

[Rubiconic Crossings V2 rev 1f]

How does this happen? I can't even begin to imagine what the hell caused this.

Sorry...slightly off topic here but that pic...I am not understanding the theme..who is he? What's his thing?

Rubi - not a watcher of all that much TV....

[Mavorpen]

Sorry...slightly off topic here but that pic...I am not understanding the theme..who is he? What's his thing?

Rubi - not a watcher of all that much TV....

Here you are my good sir.

[Rubiconic Crossings V2 rev 1f]

Sorry...slightly off topic here but that pic...I am not understanding the theme..who is he? What's his thing?

Rubi - not a watcher of all that much TV....

Here you are my good sir.

Oh dear. All I needed to see was the "Ancient Aliens" on the tab on my browser to explain this guys haircut...

Thanks Mavorpen...