The whole thing over the film was decades of distaste boiling over. The movie was an excuse. Not the main cause.
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by Grand Britannia » Mon Oct 29, 2012 2:03 pm
by SaintB » Mon Oct 29, 2012 2:07 pm
by Arumdaum » Mon Oct 29, 2012 2:08 pm
Benutanairan wrote:Tubbsalot wrote:Yes, and those things definitely mean that there is no dissent in the North because all of the people there are brainwashed dolts. North Koreans never defect across the border.
edit: now if you'd said 'have you noticed the many-millions-strong army' then yeah that'd be a reasonable point
There army is not in the million XD believe me I've been to the South Korean and North Korean side of the DMZ
I remembered having to leave a bouquet at the statue of Kim Il sung and the thousands of gifts from the cold war, the bugged hotels, the captured american boat, I could go on.
To be honest the North Koreans are nice but their eyes look dead ( emotionally) inside.
by Republic Of Hell » Mon Oct 29, 2012 2:09 pm
by Dokuritsu Nippon » Mon Oct 29, 2012 2:12 pm
by Arumdaum » Mon Oct 29, 2012 2:12 pm
Valecia wrote:The Joseon Dynasty wrote:
This is where you stop. You stop, look around, perhaps adjust the pencils on your desk. Take your time.
Now, think, "Do I actually know anything about this topic?"
Just think. Keep adjusting those pencils if it helps.
The conclusion you should have come to is, "No, I actually know piss all about this topic."
That's good. We're half way there. Now that the problem has been identified, you can go and read an actual book, not the Cracked article on hilarious North Korean propaganda, and come back and post this topic once you've learned something.
Or discuss it here. I'd be more than pleased to answer your questions, but I'm not scouring every one of your posts for factual inaccuracies, because I just don't have the resources or manpower.
Very funny. Now take a step back, sit down. Press "close" and get the fuck of my forum. If you wish to stay and debate, please do so, but refrain on making cheeky posts on how I know "piss all" on the topic.
by Sunya » Mon Oct 29, 2012 2:14 pm
Valecia wrote:As a progressive, I fail to understand why North Korea is still running. Lets face it, eh are the laughing stock of the world and basically live of chinas money. I'm here to discuss the possibility of overthrowing the delusional dictator Kim Jong un and his generals and how would it be possible??
Why don't North Korea open up to the world like other communist nations have done?
Why don't they unify?
Lets have a good, clean debate
by Arumdaum » Mon Oct 29, 2012 2:15 pm
Valecia wrote:Icesteam wrote:HOW CAN'T THEY OVERTHROW IT?!
The government is just a bunch of elites, and there are few good millions of army to be turned to rebels
I'm sure they could in terms of manpower, but they know nothing other than communism, so what would they be revolting in favour for? I admit there is a black market in foreign media, but it sold have to expand quickly during a supposed revolution
by Arumdaum » Mon Oct 29, 2012 2:16 pm
by Arumdaum » Mon Oct 29, 2012 2:18 pm
Valecia wrote:North Korea could open up to capitalism like china, Vietnam and Cuba. But there government is so incompetent that it won't happen unless the west beats some sense into them
by Arumdaum » Mon Oct 29, 2012 2:18 pm
Delmok wrote:Unifying the two countries would be very difficult at this point in time. The two countries are almost complete opposites in almost every way. The only thing they have in common now is the Korean language.
Even if they unified which I think will take many more decades, I don't think they would completely "unify", there will always be a North and south Korea. Look at Germany, they have been unified for many years but the west and east have different politics and even architecture.
I hope the Cuban embargo ends and I hope Korea will be unified but to be real these things will take time.
by Ganos Lao » Mon Oct 29, 2012 2:19 pm
Dokuritsu Nippon wrote:Ahh, looks like it's time for the next of the periodic dosages of xenophobia (with underlying imperialist sentiments) here on NSG.
A bit ironic that a so-called "progressive" would be pro-imperialist and anti-communist, but I suppose that's what lack of consciousness will do.
In any case, Choseon Manse! Kim Il Sung, Suryong Manse! Long live the world's one true worker's state! And death to any and all imperialist forces who dare try to enslave these heroic people to their capitalist agenda!
The expropriation of capitalism in North Korea was undoubtedly a historically progressive step. But from the beginning, the nationalised, planned economy was controlled from above by a totalitarian bureaucracy. Although there was some participation by the Korean masses in the social revolution that overturned private property in the years after WWII, there was never democratic workers' control and management through workers' councils (soviets), as existed in the early USSR under Lenin and Trotsky. Just as in most of Eastern Europe after the war, this expropriation was carried out bureaucratically from above, on the basis of the economic, military, and political power and interests of the Soviet Union. It was not the result of the active and democratic participation by the Korean masses in a proletarian revolution from below, and as a result, although Soviet control was not nearly as direct as in countries like Bulgaria or Czechoslovakia, it was from the beginning a deformed workers' state.
These totalitarian and bureaucratic beginnings set the tone for the entire subsequent and increasingly bizarre development of the regime. Far from the intransigent proletarian internationalism of the Bolsheviks, the North Korean Stalinist leaders have based themselves on the most narrow and reactionary nationalism and isolationism. They have taken the discredited theory of "socialism in one country" to extreme lengths, summarized in their concept of Juche (self-reliance), which according to Kim Jong-Il, forms part of "Kimilsungism". According to the DPRK state website, "The Leaders [Kim Il-Sung and Kim Jong-Il] are the sun of the nation and mankind". The country even has its own Juche calendar where "Year One" is the year in which Kim Il-Sung was born, 1912. This is an extreme example of the so-called "cult of the personality". Not even Stalin went this far.
But the nationalist particularism of the North Korean regime goes even further than this. Even the word "Marxism-Leninism" (which most of the Stalinist regimes at least paid lip service to in the past) was replaced with Juche in all Communist Party publications and even the North Korean Constitution in the 1970s. Access to the classic writings of Marx, Engels, and Lenin is severely restricted. From the above, it is clear just how far this regime is from genuine "Marxism-Leninism" which is internationalist to the core.
The North Korean masses are suffering terrible conditions. They suffer under an unparalleled totalitarian regime and a despotic bureaucratic leadership, in addition to all the miseries inflicted on them by hypocritical imperialism. The North Korean economy hit a brick wall long ago, as the bureaucracy is utterly incapable of developing the productive forces within the narrow limits of its borders and the totalitarian system. But right next door we have booming China, where the opening up of the country to capitalism has resulted in unprecedented levels of economic development and growth. The fate of tiny North Korea has always been largely tied to that of its giant neighbour. As we said, North Korea depends heavily on China for supplies of material, food and so on. China has the leverage to put pressure on the North Korean regime and pushing it in the direction it wishes. This economic leverage is far more powerful than any atomic bomb.
But the problem we are faced with in North Korea is that it is the very bureaucracy of the Kim Jong-Il regime that is endangering what remains of the planned economy. It would be foolish to believe that the gains of the revolution are safe in the hands of these bureaucrats. Let us not forget that the Russian and Chinese Stalinists (albeit following different paths) were prepared to abandon decades of "socialist" rhetoric and throw themselves into the rush towards capitalism. The North Korean is fundamentally the same.
by Dokuritsu Nippon » Mon Oct 29, 2012 2:22 pm
Ganos Lao wrote:Dokuritsu Nippon wrote:Ahh, looks like it's time for the next of the periodic dosages of xenophobia (with underlying imperialist sentiments) here on NSG.
A bit ironic that a so-called "progressive" would be pro-imperialist and anti-communist, but I suppose that's what lack of consciousness will do.
In any case, Choseon Manse! Kim Il Sung, Suryong Manse! Long live the world's one true worker's state! And death to any and all imperialist forces who dare try to enslave these heroic people to their capitalist agenda!
What would NSG simply be without its usual entourage of insane apologists for the silliest ideas?
Interesting how even Marxists will tell you you are silly for supporting North Korea like this. Are they capitalist? Consider the following. I have found these tidbits just by looking through Marxist sites on the internet.The expropriation of capitalism in North Korea was undoubtedly a historically progressive step. But from the beginning, the nationalised, planned economy was controlled from above by a totalitarian bureaucracy. Although there was some participation by the Korean masses in the social revolution that overturned private property in the years after WWII, there was never democratic workers' control and management through workers' councils (soviets), as existed in the early USSR under Lenin and Trotsky. Just as in most of Eastern Europe after the war, this expropriation was carried out bureaucratically from above, on the basis of the economic, military, and political power and interests of the Soviet Union. It was not the result of the active and democratic participation by the Korean masses in a proletarian revolution from below, and as a result, although Soviet control was not nearly as direct as in countries like Bulgaria or Czechoslovakia, it was from the beginning a deformed workers' state.These totalitarian and bureaucratic beginnings set the tone for the entire subsequent and increasingly bizarre development of the regime. Far from the intransigent proletarian internationalism of the Bolsheviks, the North Korean Stalinist leaders have based themselves on the most narrow and reactionary nationalism and isolationism. They have taken the discredited theory of "socialism in one country" to extreme lengths, summarized in their concept of Juche (self-reliance), which according to Kim Jong-Il, forms part of "Kimilsungism". According to the DPRK state website, "The Leaders [Kim Il-Sung and Kim Jong-Il] are the sun of the nation and mankind". The country even has its own Juche calendar where "Year One" is the year in which Kim Il-Sung was born, 1912. This is an extreme example of the so-called "cult of the personality". Not even Stalin went this far.
But the nationalist particularism of the North Korean regime goes even further than this. Even the word "Marxism-Leninism" (which most of the Stalinist regimes at least paid lip service to in the past) was replaced with Juche in all Communist Party publications and even the North Korean Constitution in the 1970s. Access to the classic writings of Marx, Engels, and Lenin is severely restricted. From the above, it is clear just how far this regime is from genuine "Marxism-Leninism" which is internationalist to the core.The North Korean masses are suffering terrible conditions. They suffer under an unparalleled totalitarian regime and a despotic bureaucratic leadership, in addition to all the miseries inflicted on them by hypocritical imperialism. The North Korean economy hit a brick wall long ago, as the bureaucracy is utterly incapable of developing the productive forces within the narrow limits of its borders and the totalitarian system. But right next door we have booming China, where the opening up of the country to capitalism has resulted in unprecedented levels of economic development and growth. The fate of tiny North Korea has always been largely tied to that of its giant neighbour. As we said, North Korea depends heavily on China for supplies of material, food and so on. China has the leverage to put pressure on the North Korean regime and pushing it in the direction it wishes. This economic leverage is far more powerful than any atomic bomb.But the problem we are faced with in North Korea is that it is the very bureaucracy of the Kim Jong-Il regime that is endangering what remains of the planned economy. It would be foolish to believe that the gains of the revolution are safe in the hands of these bureaucrats. Let us not forget that the Russian and Chinese Stalinists (albeit following different paths) were prepared to abandon decades of "socialist" rhetoric and throw themselves into the rush towards capitalism. The North Korean is fundamentally the same.
Even your own kind sees people like you as a threat to the revolution, to the workers, Dok. What say you?
by Quebec and Atlantic Canada » Mon Oct 29, 2012 2:25 pm
Dokuritsu Nippon wrote:Ahh, looks like it's time for the next of the periodic dosages of xenophobia (with underlying imperialist sentiments) here on NSG.
A bit ironic that a so-called "progressive" would be pro-imperialist and anti-communist, but I suppose that's what lack of consciousness will do.
In any case, Choseon Manse! Kim Il Sung, Suryong Manse! Long live the world's one true worker's state! And death to any and all imperialist forces who dare try to enslave these heroic people to their capitalist agenda!
by Dokuritsu Nippon » Mon Oct 29, 2012 2:26 pm
Quebec and Atlantic Canada wrote:Dokuritsu Nippon wrote:Ahh, looks like it's time for the next of the periodic dosages of xenophobia (with underlying imperialist sentiments) here on NSG.
A bit ironic that a so-called "progressive" would be pro-imperialist and anti-communist, but I suppose that's what lack of consciousness will do.
In any case, Choseon Manse! Kim Il Sung, Suryong Manse! Long live the world's one true worker's state! And death to any and all imperialist forces who dare try to enslave these heroic people to their capitalist agenda!
Speak of the bloody devil!
by Arumdaum » Mon Oct 29, 2012 2:26 pm
Ganos Lao wrote:Dokuritsu Nippon wrote:Ahh, looks like it's time for the next of the periodic dosages of xenophobia (with underlying imperialist sentiments) here on NSG.
A bit ironic that a so-called "progressive" would be pro-imperialist and anti-communist, but I suppose that's what lack of consciousness will do.
In any case, Choseon Manse! Kim Il Sung, Suryong Manse! Long live the world's one true worker's state! And death to any and all imperialist forces who dare try to enslave these heroic people to their capitalist agenda!
What would NSG simply be without its usual entourage of insane apologists for the silliest ideas?
Interesting how even Marxists will tell you you are silly for supporting North Korea like this. Are they capitalist? Consider the following. I have found these tidbits just by looking through Marxist sites on the internet.The expropriation of capitalism in North Korea was undoubtedly a historically progressive step. But from the beginning, the nationalised, planned economy was controlled from above by a totalitarian bureaucracy. Although there was some participation by the Korean masses in the social revolution that overturned private property in the years after WWII, there was never democratic workers' control and management through workers' councils (soviets), as existed in the early USSR under Lenin and Trotsky. Just as in most of Eastern Europe after the war, this expropriation was carried out bureaucratically from above, on the basis of the economic, military, and political power and interests of the Soviet Union. It was not the result of the active and democratic participation by the Korean masses in a proletarian revolution from below, and as a result, although Soviet control was not nearly as direct as in countries like Bulgaria or Czechoslovakia, it was from the beginning a deformed workers' state.These totalitarian and bureaucratic beginnings set the tone for the entire subsequent and increasingly bizarre development of the regime. Far from the intransigent proletarian internationalism of the Bolsheviks, the North Korean Stalinist leaders have based themselves on the most narrow and reactionary nationalism and isolationism. They have taken the discredited theory of "socialism in one country" to extreme lengths, summarized in their concept of Juche (self-reliance), which according to Kim Jong-Il, forms part of "Kimilsungism". According to the DPRK state website, "The Leaders [Kim Il-Sung and Kim Jong-Il] are the sun of the nation and mankind". The country even has its own Juche calendar where "Year One" is the year in which Kim Il-Sung was born, 1912. This is an extreme example of the so-called "cult of the personality". Not even Stalin went this far.
But the nationalist particularism of the North Korean regime goes even further than this. Even the word "Marxism-Leninism" (which most of the Stalinist regimes at least paid lip service to in the past) was replaced with Juche in all Communist Party publications and even the North Korean Constitution in the 1970s. Access to the classic writings of Marx, Engels, and Lenin is severely restricted. From the above, it is clear just how far this regime is from genuine "Marxism-Leninism" which is internationalist to the core.The North Korean masses are suffering terrible conditions. They suffer under an unparalleled totalitarian regime and a despotic bureaucratic leadership, in addition to all the miseries inflicted on them by hypocritical imperialism. The North Korean economy hit a brick wall long ago, as the bureaucracy is utterly incapable of developing the productive forces within the narrow limits of its borders and the totalitarian system. But right next door we have booming China, where the opening up of the country to capitalism has resulted in unprecedented levels of economic development and growth. The fate of tiny North Korea has always been largely tied to that of its giant neighbour. As we said, North Korea depends heavily on China for supplies of material, food and so on. China has the leverage to put pressure on the North Korean regime and pushing it in the direction it wishes. This economic leverage is far more powerful than any atomic bomb.But the problem we are faced with in North Korea is that it is the very bureaucracy of the Kim Jong-Il regime that is endangering what remains of the planned economy. It would be foolish to believe that the gains of the revolution are safe in the hands of these bureaucrats. Let us not forget that the Russian and Chinese Stalinists (albeit following different paths) were prepared to abandon decades of "socialist" rhetoric and throw themselves into the rush towards capitalism. The North Korean is fundamentally the same.
Even your own kind sees people like you as a threat to the revolution, to the workers, Dok. What say you?
by Inyourfaceistan » Mon Oct 29, 2012 2:28 pm
by The the land » Mon Oct 29, 2012 2:28 pm
Valecia wrote:As a progressive, I fail to understand why North Korea is still running. Lets face it, eh are the laughing stock of the world and basically live of chinas money. I'm here to discuss the possibility of overthrowing the delusional dictator Kim Jong un and his generals and how would it be possible??
Why don't North Korea open up to the world like other communist nations have done?
Why don't they unify?
Lets have a good, clean debate
by Arumdaum » Mon Oct 29, 2012 2:29 pm
Warshania wrote:The Imperial Terran Republic wrote:I believe that North Korea is on its own path to destruction so I do not believe an invasion is necessary I believe that it will eventually merge with South Korea because its only real ally is China and they don't really even like them that much.
Isn't a unification with China more likely than SK, considering their current relations?
by Arumdaum » Mon Oct 29, 2012 2:29 pm
by The Joseon Dynasty » Mon Oct 29, 2012 2:30 pm
Dokuritsu Nippon wrote:Ahh, looks like it's time for the next of the periodic dosages of xenophobia (with underlying imperialist sentiments) here on NSG.
A bit ironic that a so-called "progressive" would be pro-imperialist and anti-communist, but I suppose that's what lack of consciousness will do.
In any case, Choseon Manse! Kim Il Sung, Suryong Manse! Long live the world's one true worker's state! And death to any and all imperialist forces who dare try to enslave these heroic people to their capitalist agenda!
by Ganos Lao » Mon Oct 29, 2012 2:30 pm
Dokuritsu Nippon wrote:Ganos Lao wrote:
What would NSG simply be without its usual entourage of insane apologists for the silliest ideas?
Interesting how even Marxists will tell you you are silly for supporting North Korea like this. Are they capitalist? Consider the following. I have found these tidbits just by looking through Marxist sites on the internet.
Even your own kind sees people like you as a threat to the revolution, to the workers, Dok. What say you?
Trots and their ilk (followers of a man who betrayed the USSR to US intelligence over spite) are certainly not "my own kind". Their continued counter-revolutionary sentiments against today's workers state are quite self-evident. Self-admittedly, they'd rather see it capitalist than socialist.
They've chosen to take sides with the capitalist class. I just wish they had the balls to say so honestly.
by Dokuritsu Nippon » Mon Oct 29, 2012 2:30 pm
The the land wrote:Valecia wrote:As a progressive, I fail to understand why North Korea is still running. Lets face it, eh are the laughing stock of the world and basically live of chinas money. I'm here to discuss the possibility of overthrowing the delusional dictator Kim Jong un and his generals and how would it be possible??
Why don't North Korea open up to the world like other communist nations have done?
Why don't they unify?
Lets have a good, clean debate
Not unless you do the same for every other authoritarian regime, cause see, people tend to single out North Korea and Iran and such
by Arumdaum » Mon Oct 29, 2012 2:31 pm
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