Gender titles to be scrapped in Brighton.

[Delanshar]

Mutual respect is important for any society.

Having a majority force the minority to conform to norms they imposed on society isn't a foundation for mutual trust.

Having a minority kick, whine and scream until they get their way isn't a foundation for mutual trust either.

[Zaras]

Because it's just casual desire, like wanting a new haircut.

Holy shit. You know nothing about what it is to be transgender. Absolutely nothing. Why are you arguing about something you have just proven to not have the first clue about?

If it weren't for arguing about something without having a clue about it, this thread wouldn't be 50+ pages long in the first place.

[Souseiseki]

So again, you're telling me in a world where babies are born with deformed genitals, multiple genitals, no brains, no arms and penises on their heads and XXY XXXYY XXXXX XO XX male etc. etc. that it's literally impossible for the genitals to ever be mismatched and everyone is just delusional? Is that what you're saying?

I never said that genital mismatching never occurs, what I did say is that it is a defect. It's not normal.

Keep in mind there no cases of babies being born with anything resembling a flamingos body.

hey did you ever answer this one i can't remember

I don't think I saw is, but I will answer it.

Also I don't think you're understanding the relevance of my flamingo analogy. It has to do with transsexuality's relationship to species dysphoria, they are closely related.

Whether you think it's a defect and not normal, are people who are born with mismatched genitals and feel like shit having the wrong genitals delusional if they want to have the right genitals?

They're not closely related. It's a shit and offensive comparison and in terms of "delusion" they are on completely different levels, because one has a scientific basis and is entirely possible and one has no scientific basis and is not possible in terms of birth. Unless you as I said have some sort of evidence of babies being born with the body of a flamingo or the brain of a flamingo it'd be nice if you, y'know, stopped it with the shit and offensive comparisons.

[Grenartia]

No credible medical specialist or therapist would call them ill. This is not a matter of being "liberal", it is a matter of being decent. We can keep gender titles, just stop calling them ill and respect their right to do as like to their own bodies, especially as it harms no one and makes them happy. If they look like the opposite sex, have the parts of the opposite sex, talk like them, have the same hormones, and wear the same clothes, then they are the opposite sex.

Happy? Decent? If your happiness is derived from attempting to make a delusion reality, than it must be suppressed. It isn't decent to feed into the fantasies of the mentally ill.

Likewise, it isn't decent if treating a group of people like shit makes you happy. If you get your happiness from justifying mistreating a group of people because you think they're mentally ill, then your actions are not decent.

And transgendered can either get separate forms or have the titles be optional or smth.

That's all we're asking for.

Yes, but I'm supposed to take your word on everything right? Liberal is correct because Liberal is correct, amirite?

No credible medical specialist or therapist would call them ill. This is not a matter of being "liberal", it is a matter of being decent. We can keep gender titles, just stop calling them ill and respect their right to do as like to their own bodies, especially as it harms no one and makes them happy. If they look like the opposite sex, have the parts of the opposite sex, talk like them, have the same hormones, and wear the same clothes, then they are the opposite sex.

I agree with everything except the last sentence. It has nothing to do with presentation (two of my former girlfriends who are MtF don't look, act, express themselves, etc. as female, because to do so would put themselves in great personal danger). Instead, it has everything to do with identity.

Dude, it's not my fucking job to educate you on transgenderism. Do it yourself.

But seriously, do you realise how stupid your post is? Do you think transgendered people consciously decide to become a minority that has been marginalised and mistreated for most of history and is still treated like shit in many ways today for the lulz?

Your not transgendered. You have no idea what goes on in their head. So your not really in much of position to refute what he says and call it stupid since unless your a mind reader you don't know either.

As somebody who is transgendered, Zaras's point is the same one that I'd make.

[Zaras]

Having a majority force the minority to conform to norms they imposed on society isn't a foundation for mutual trust.

Having a minority kick, whine and scream until they get their way isn't a foundation for mutual trust either.

Wanting the minority to be treated fairly is "wanting to get their way" now?

[Woffordia]

OR it's because they are not ill. They merely want their body to look a different way.

Because it's just casual desire, like wanting a new haircut.

I still can't wrap my mind around why you think it is evil. It is people wanting to change the gender/ sex they were born with or that society pushes upon them. Why is that bad?

[Des-Bal]

Holy shit. You know nothing about what it is to be transgender. Absolutely nothing. Why are you arguing about something you have just proven to not have the first clue about?

The point was there's nothing fleeting about it. There's definitely something going on in the brain.

[Mavorpen]

No I'm not. I'm trying to state my position completely and totally unambiguously.

The statement which you responded to can be considered my assertion that Kurp is the most significant factor in recognizing an individuals sex.

Except, it's not. It's based on the gametes it produces.

[Des-Bal]

Because it's just casual desire, like wanting a new haircut.

I still can't wrap my mind around why you think it is evil. It is people wanting to change the gender/ sex they were born with or that society pushes upon them. Why is that bad?

It's not. I'm not saying it's evil, I'm not saying I hate them, I'm not saying they should be treated differently I'm saying that transgenderism meets all the criteria to be considered a disorder.

[Saiwania]

If you did not know they were transexual, and you saw them walking down the street, you would think they were the opposite sex. And you should work on your tolerance.

Usually you can tell if they aren't a real woman or man, such as for example seeing an Adam's apple. It is getting harder to tell granted, but I've yet to be completely fooled.

[Zaras]

Because it's just casual desire, like wanting a new haircut.

I still can't wrap my mind around why you think it is evil. It is people wanting to change the gender/ sex they were born with or that society pushes upon them. Why is that bad?

There's no reasonable answer for why that's bad. Just a bunch of empty rhetoric.

[Zaras]

Holy shit. You know nothing about what it is to be transgender. Absolutely nothing. Why are you arguing about something you have just proven to not have the first clue about?

The point was there's nothing fleeting about it. There's definitely something going on in the brain.

And you have a problem with that because?

[Woffordia]

I still can't wrap my mind around why you think it is evil. It is people wanting to change the gender/ sex they were born with or that society pushes upon them. Why is that bad?

It's not. I'm not saying it's evil, I'm not saying I hate them, I'm not saying they should be treated differently I'm saying that transgenderism meets all the criteria to be considered a disorder.

What are those criteria and how does it meet them? Use medical sources.

[Mavorpen]

It's not. I'm not saying it's evil, I'm not saying I hate them, I'm not saying they should be treated differently I'm saying that transgenderism meets all the criteria to be considered a disorder.

EXACTLY! You're SAYING that it does. You've yet to PROVE that it does.

[Zaras]

I'm not saying they should be treated differently I'm saying that transgenderism meets all the criteria to be considered a disorder.

If you're not saying they should be treated differently, why do you insist in calling transgenderism a disorder?

[Des-Bal]

Except, it's not. It's based on the gametes it produces.

Personal recognition and scientific recognition are not the same thing. If you are genetically male then I think of you as male regardless of what Furp Gurp Burp or Purp.

[Zaras]

If you did not know they were transexual, and you saw them walking down the street, you would think they were the opposite sex. And you should work on your tolerance.

Usually you can tell if they aren't a real woman or man, such as for example seeing an Adam's apple. It is getting harder to tell granted, but I've yet to be completely fooled.

Define a "Real Woman". Or a "Real Man".

Oh, wait, you can't, because that's a transphobic talking point.

[Desperate Measures]

Holy shit. You know nothing about what it is to be transgender. Absolutely nothing. Why are you arguing about something you have just proven to not have the first clue about?

The point was there's nothing fleeting about it. There's definitely something going on in the brain.

I misread. I see what you're saying now and it's not as stupid as I thought, though I still find your viewpoint in general in this debate to be wrong. I'm sorry.

[Des-Bal]

If you're not saying they should be treated differently, why do you insist in calling transgenderism a disorder?

Because it meets the criteria.

EXACTLY! You're SAYING that it does. You've yet to PROVE that it does.

Yes I did.

[Woffordia]

If you did not know they were transexual, and you saw them walking down the street, you would think they were the opposite sex. And you should work on your tolerance.

Usually you can tell if they aren't a real woman or man, such as for example seeing an Adam's apple. It is getting harder to tell granted, but I've yet to be completely fooled.

Not usually, no. BTW some natural born women have pronounced adam's apples.
For example, Anne Coulter.

[Souseiseki]

If you did not know they were transexual, and you saw them walking down the street, you would think they were the opposite sex. And you should work on your tolerance.

Usually you can tell if they aren't a real woman or man, such as for example seeing an Adam's apple. It is getting harder to tell granted, but I've yet to be completely fooled.

women have adams apples, just smaller. everyone does.
some women have large ones
they can be filed down

Put it this way, how do you know you've NOT been "completely fooled"? After all, if you were, how would you know? You'd just think you saw a standard woman?

[Mavorpen]

Except, it's not. It's based on the gametes it produces.

Personal recognition and scientific recognition are not the same thing. If you are genetically male then I think of you as male regardless of what Furp Gurp Burp or Purp.

THANK YOU. Thank you for admitting you don't give a shit about scientific or medical facts, rather you only care about your own deluded world where definitions mean things completely different from what they actually mean.

[Alaje]

I don't think I saw is, but I will answer it.

Also I don't think you're understanding the relevance of my flamingo analogy. It has to do with transsexuality's relationship to species dysphoria, they are closely related.

Show it is related to species dysphoria.

All forms of dysporia are related, you know that's why they all have the word DYSPHORIA in their names. Sorta like how all cancers are related, maybe you knew that, idk?

Dysphoria

[Zaras]

If you're not saying they should be treated differently, why do you insist in calling transgenderism a disorder?

Because it meets the criteria.

What criteria?

[Delanshar]

Having a minority kick, whine and scream until they get their way isn't a foundation for mutual trust either.

Wanting the minority to be treated fairly is "wanting to get their way" now?

Considering who I'm talking to "Being treated fairly" could mean a lot of things. You'd probably argue that Europeans being forced to pay $1 trillion in reparations to Africa would be "treating them fairly".

In any case I'm all for them being treated equally, which is why I proposed those forms like 20 pages ago. Proposals that you seemed to agree with.