Fellow Christians: Do you have any unorthodox beliefs?

[Risottia]

...I also believe in taking the Sermon on the Mount literally, so I will not swear an oath in court

Sorry, could you explain me this one?

“And again, you’ve heard what was said to the people of long ago, “You shall not perjure yourself, instead keep the oaths you make to the Lord.” But I tell you, don’t swear at all, not by heaven, because it’s the throne of God, not by the earth, because it’s God’s footstool, not by Jerusalem, because it’s the city of the great King. Don’t even swear by your head, because you’re not able to make one hair white or black. Simply say yes, or no—more than this comes from the evil one.

I think it's quite evident that Jesus here is talking about "taking an oath" as a method used to increase the importance of one's own words - to certify the listeners that the speech is truthful - by invoking divine/otherwordly punishment on himself in the case he speaks a lie.
Taking an oath in a court has a different meaning: the witness states that he knows that speaking a lie in a court as a witness is a crime, and is fully aware of the mundane consequences of such an act.

[Grenartia]

Well, depends who you ask - I'm sure there are some hardcore, Southern Baptist types who would consider me down right heretical.

I firmly believe in the Trinity, the Virgin Birth, the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ and His Divinity, and His Second Coming, but I also believe in same sex civil unions, that the Book of Genesis wasn't intended to be a scientific discussion about Creation, I affirm the theory of evolution, that the Universe is approx. 13 billion years old, man-made Global Warming is a reality, and am firmly against teaching Creationism in school. I also believe that Faith is an intensely personal matter, and that we as Christians, or indeed any faith community, should not shove our beliefs down others' collective throats, and that all should treat each other with respect and dignity, regardless of what we believe, or disbelieve.

I believe essentially the same things. I've been told by former friends (among others) that I'm a heretic.

No, you could just be ETHNICALLY a Christian, e.g. going to church, but you could be agnostic or even atheist. I've met people before who are like this.

Since when is Christian an Ethnicity?

That's what I was wondering...

[Norsklow]

I believe essentially the same things. I've been told by former friends (among others) that I'm a heretic.

Since when is Christian an Ethnicity?

That's what I was wondering...

Don't worry. I've also been told I'm a Heretic. Ditto for Fillip II of Spain. And Queen Elizabeth the First. We're in EXCELLENT company!

Confíteor Deo omnipoténti, beátæ Maríæ semper Vírgini, beáto Michaéli Archángelo, beáto Ioanni Baptístæ, sanctis Apóstolis Petro et Paulo, ómnibus Sanctis, et vobis, fratres (tibi, Pater), quia peccávi nimis cogitatióne, verbo et ópere: mea culpa, mea culpa, mea máxima culpa. Ideo precor beátam Maríam semper Vírginem, beátum Michaélem Archángelum, beátum Ioánnem Baptístam, sanctos Apóstolos Petrum et Paulum, omnes Sanctos, et vos, fratres (te, Pater), oráre pro me ad Dóminum Deum nostrum."

(Translation: I confess to almighty God, to blessed Mary ever Virgin, to blessed Michael the archangel, to blessed John the Baptist, to the holy apostles Peter and Paul, to all the saints, and to you, brethren, that I have sinned exceedingly in thought, word, and deed through my fault, through my fault, through my most grievous fault. Therefore I beseech blessed Mary ever Virgin ... and you, brethren, to pray to the Lord our God for me.)

[Grenartia]

I believe essentially the same things. I've been told by former friends (among others) that I'm a heretic.



That's what I was wondering...

Don't worry. I've also been told I'm a Heretic. Ditto for Fillip II of Spain. And Queen Elizabeth the First. We're in EXCELLENT company!

Don't forget Martin Luther. Personally, I wear the badge with pride.

[Galloism]

...I also believe in taking the Sermon on the Mount literally, so I will not swear an oath in court

Sorry, could you explain me this one?

“And again, you’ve heard what was said to the people of long ago, “You shall not perjure yourself, instead keep the oaths you make to the Lord.” But I tell you, don’t swear at all, not by heaven, because it’s the throne of God, not by the earth, because it’s God’s footstool, not by Jerusalem, because it’s the city of the great King. Don’t even swear by your head, because you’re not able to make one hair white or black. Simply say yes, or no—more than this comes from the evil one.

I think it's quite evident that Jesus here is talking about "taking an oath" as a method used to increase the importance of one's own words - to certify the listeners that the speech is truthful - by invoking divine/otherwordly punishment on himself in the case he speaks a lie.
Taking an oath in a court has a different meaning: the witness states that he knows that speaking a lie in a court as a witness is a crime, and is fully aware of the mundane consequences of such an act.

Taking an oath in court should be a pretty mundane act for a Christian anyway.

He's supposed to tell the truth anyway.

[Shnercropolis]

not really. My church doesn't really like doing anything that's not in any of the scriptures, so I guess you could gall us orthodox.

[Grenartia]

not really. My church doesn't really like doing anything that's not in any of the scriptures, so I guess you could gall us orthodox.

Yes, but what is your church's interpretation of the scriptures? Do you agree with all of them?

[Norstal]

not really. My church doesn't really like doing anything that's not in any of the scriptures, so I guess you could gall us orthodox.

Yes, but what is your church's interpretation of the scriptures? Do you agree with all of them?

Addendum: literal interpretation of the scriptures is unorthodox.

[Galloism]

Yes, but what is your church's interpretation of the scriptures? Do you agree with all of them?

Addendum: literal interpretation of the scriptures is unorthodox.

Or ultraorthodox (IE, more orthodox than the orthodox), depending on how you look at it.

[Norsklow]

Don't worry. I've also been told I'm a Heretic. Ditto for Fillip II of Spain. And Queen Elizabeth the First. We're in EXCELLENT company!

Don't forget Martin Luther. Personally, I wear the badge with pride.

As one of my friends keeps me reminding me:
'You have enemies? Good!
It means that at some moment, you have actually stood up for something!'

[Franklin Delano Bluth]

A Christian IS a Theist.

The exact opposite is true, actually. A Christian positively rejects the notion of the existence of a deity.

[Norsklow]

A Christian IS a Theist.

The exact opposite is true, actually. A Christian positively rejects the notion of the existence of a deity.

Indeed, the most unorthodox belief I've come across lately.

[Raeyh]

The exact opposite is true, actually. A Christian positively rejects the notion of the existence of a deity.

Indeed, the most unorthodox belief I've come across lately.

Yes, it makes my belief that God is evil look normal.

[Meryuma]

Obviously humans have "evolved" in the sense that they're intellectually better than early humans (Cro-Magnon, Neanderthals, etc.) and I think that's due to natural selection. But the idea that we've evolved from chimpanzees is not evident. If we indeed evolved from gorillas or chimpanzees, wouldn't the gorillas or chimpanzees not exist in today's society?

In other words, you basically believe in evolution except you don't understand it.

cosmic days

Sounds like a psychedelic album.

[Pope Joan]

...I also believe in taking the Sermon on the Mount literally, so I will not swear an oath in court

Sorry, could you explain me this one?

“And again, you’ve heard what was said to the people of long ago, “You shall not perjure yourself, instead keep the oaths you make to the Lord.” But I tell you, don’t swear at all, not by heaven, because it’s the throne of God, not by the earth, because it’s God’s footstool, not by Jerusalem, because it’s the city of the great King. Don’t even swear by your head, because you’re not able to make one hair white or black. Simply say yes, or no—more than this comes from the evil one.

I think it's quite evident that Jesus here is talking about "taking an oath" as a method used to increase the importance of one's own words - to certify the listeners that the speech is truthful - by invoking divine/otherwordly punishment on himself in the case he speaks a lie.
Taking an oath in a court has a different meaning: the witness states that he knows that speaking a lie in a court as a witness is a crime, and is fully aware of the mundane consequences of such an act.

He says let your yes be yes and your no be no.

If it takes an oath to make an honest person of you, that means most of the time you are a liar. That's no way to live.

[Reggae Magmia]

A Christian IS a Theist.

The exact opposite is true, actually. A Christian positively rejects the notion of the existence of a deity.

[Galloism]

The exact opposite is true, actually. A Christian positively rejects the notion of the existence of a deity.

Bluth's definition of christianity makes us all have that expression.

[Not Safe For Work]

Sorry, could you explain me this one?



I think it's quite evident that Jesus here is talking about "taking an oath" as a method used to increase the importance of one's own words - to certify the listeners that the speech is truthful - by invoking divine/otherwordly punishment on himself in the case he speaks a lie.
Taking an oath in a court has a different meaning: the witness states that he knows that speaking a lie in a court as a witness is a crime, and is fully aware of the mundane consequences of such an act.

He says let your yes be yes and your no be no.

If it takes an oath to make an honest person of you, that means most of the time you are a liar. That's no way to live.

It could be argued that invoking the name of God just as a security on your honesty is taking the Lord's name in vain, also.

[Risottia]

Taking an oath in a court has a different meaning: the witness states that he knows that speaking a lie in a court as a witness is a crime, and is fully aware of the mundane consequences of such an act.

He says let your yes be yes and your no be no.

If it takes an oath to make an honest person of you, that means most of the time you are a liar. That's no way to live.

I don't think you understood the point I was making. It's not about an oath making someone truthful: it's about the knowledge he could be prosecuted and face jail if he lied there.

It could be argued that invoking the name of God just as a security on your honesty is taking the Lord's name in vain, also.

This is more understandable. Still it's more related to Exodus than to the Gospels...

[Grenartia]

A Christian IS a Theist.

The exact opposite is true, actually. A Christian positively rejects the notion of the existence of a deity.

Bluth, please. Nobody wants to hear your No True Scotsman-esque bullshit.

[Norsklow]

snip
I don't think you understood the point I was making. It's not about an oath making someone truthful: it's about the knowledge he could be prosecuted and face jail if he lied there.
snip

Is that a 4th case in the first and 1st case in the 2nd instance? I think we've got a lost in translation problem here.

[Norsklow]

He says let your yes be yes and your no be no.

If it takes an oath to make an honest person of you, that means most of the time you are a liar. That's no way to live.

It could be argued that invoking the name of God just as a security on your honesty is taking the Lord's name in vain, also.

That makes absolutely perfect sense in the cultural climes of the Eastern Med - assuming 2000 years of similarity.

[Pope Joan]

It could be argued that invoking the name of God just as a security on your honesty is taking the Lord's name in vain, also.

That makes absolutely perfect sense in the cultural climes of the Eastern Med - assuming 2000 years of similarity.

So it's archaic to worry about taking the Lord's name in vain, but not archaic to assign specific significance to an oath whose only power is that it is a religious vow? Who are you swearing TO? Why should it matter if you swear or not if you are talking to empty air or a flying spaghetti monster? It's absurd, upon reflection, so don't do it.

[Norsklow]

That makes absolutely perfect sense in the cultural climes of the Eastern Med - assuming 2000 years of similarity.

So it's archaic to worry about taking the Lord's name in vain, but not archaic to assign specific significance to an oath whose only power is that it is a religious vow? Who are you swearing TO? Why should it matter if you swear or not if you are talking to empty air or a flying spaghetti monster? It's absurd, upon reflection, so don't do it.

I am not arguing against you, but it seems to me that in that part of the world,
there is a much bigger chance that a man caught with his hand in the cookie jar will swear by any God he knows that he never had his hand in the cookie jar,
rather than swearing by the name of a God he does not actually believe in.

[Ceannairceach]

Christ was a man and not a god.

Is that Arianism? Or some other brand of Pre-Schism Christianity? I can't keep the separation between that and Coptic Christianity.