Pub Smoking Ban

[Ostroeuropa]

Still awake from last night, and discussed the absurdity of this law with friends. I don't know if anyone else thinks this, but since the smoking ban every smoker in the pub migrates to the nearest smoking area, often around the same time, and as such new aquaintances/friends who smoke are gained every time you visit the smoking area to smoke.
I'm confident that if anything, the pub smoking ban is making it a lot harder for people to quit smoking (if they frequent pubs.)
I realize it's for the barkeepers, but they smoke too...
Whats your opinion on the smoking ban, and am I right in my noticing the forced socialization?


EDIT:
Clarification - you get to know all the smokers, instead of them staying at their tables. Some are other regulars.

[Nadkor]

I realize it's for the barkeepers, but they smoke too...

What, all of them?

And, yeah. It's good. I like it. I smoke, but I can see the inherent cuntishness in sitting around having a cigarette (which is purely for self-gratification) and forcing everyone who also shares an enclosed space with you to have to deal with the smoke.

I also like that if I'm out and I don't smoke I don't end up having my clothes and my hair smelling disgusting the next day.

And I like the socialising that goes in in a smoking area. If they hadn't banned smoking we wouldn't have that. So, yeah, good times all round.

[SaintB]

I fully understand and condone smoking bans in work places, stores, and restaurants but bars, parks, and sidewalks are another thing entirely. Bars are full of adults already, most of them imbibing poisonous substances that cause more short term damage than inhaling someone's smoke on occasion does in the long term, parks and sidewalks are in the open air where the smoke is carried away by the wind and dispersed into the area (outside is pretty big or so I am told anyway) where it has minimal effect; designated smoking sections in outside areas are fine with me but outright bans outdoors without good reason such as you'll catch the forest on fire are a step too far.

I'm not even a smoker and in fact inhaling cigarette smoke makes me choke but some regulations are getting pretty silly.

[Shard_Head]

So people having to occasionally go outside with smokers to continue socialising makes it more difficult to quit than if they had just spent their entire night inside with smokers. Please do try and explain this logic further.

[Forsher]

Just for fun. This one isn't a comedy but it's connected.

I fully understand and condone smoking bans in work places, stores, and restaurants but bars, parks, and sidewalks are another thing entirely. Bars are full of adults already, most of them imbibing poisonous substances that cause more short term damage than inhaling someone's smoke on occasion does in the long term, parks and sidewalks are in the open air where the smoke is carried away by the wind and dispersed into the area (outside is pretty big or so I am told anyway) where it has minimal effect; designated smoking sections in outside areas are fine with me but outright bans outdoors without good reason such as you'll catch the forest on fire are a step too far.

I'm not even a smoker and in fact inhaling cigarette smoke makes me choke but some regulations are getting pretty silly.

The difference is they are electing to drink and the alcohol itself affects only them. Smoking, in contrast, affects multiple people as a direct consequence.

And, before someone says drinking affects other people too, think it through... it's how they're drinking, not the drinking.

That said, alcohol bans are common enough too. There's one down the road from me... Mind you, there's also a pub and a liquor store.

Still awake from last night, and discussed the absurdity of this law with friends. I don't know if anyone else thinks this, but since the smoking ban every smoker in the pub migrates to the nearest smoking area, often around the same time, and as such new aquaintances/friends who smoke are gained every time you visit the smoking area to smoke.
I'm confident that if anything, the pub smoking ban is making it a lot harder for people to quit smoking (if they frequent pubs.)
I realize it's for the barkeepers, but they smoke too...
Whats your opinion on the smoking ban, and am I right in my noticing the forced socialization?


EDIT:
Clarification - you get to know all the smokers, instead of them staying at their tables. Some are other regulars.

Exercise is good.

The thing, is they are all smokers... anyone who goes there is either a smoker already or associates with smokers while smoking and is so at risk anyway.

Now, with regards to quitting... anyone who is lazy probably isn't going to be smoking. That helps.

[The Matthew Islands]

I kind of like the smoking ban, because I don't like smoking, and I don't like coming home smelling like shit from cigarette smoke.

However, a few days after the smoking ban, I did notice a change. The smell of smoke has now been replaced with farts. Hell, some bloke let out so bad the whole pub started clapping. At least Smoking did a decent job of hiding that.

[Tagmatium]

As a smoker, I think it's fair enough.

I wouldn't want to have it in my face everyday if I was a non-smoker.

[Varijnland]

I hate smoking, it's disgusting however the ban has killed the pubs!

[Shard_Head]

I kind of like the smoking ban, because I don't like smoking, and I don't like coming home smelling like shit from cigarette smoke.

However, a few days after the smoking ban, I did notice a change. The smell of smoke has now been replaced with farts. Hell, some bloke let out so bad the whole pub started clapping. At least Smoking did a decent job of hiding that.

You need to find a better class of pub.

[Tagmatium]

I hate smoking, it's disgusting however the ban has killed the pubs!

Nah, it's the fact that the average pint is about £3.50.

You can pop down an offy and get a four-pack for that sort of money.

[Shard_Head]

I hate smoking, it's disgusting however the ban has killed the pubs!

Nah people being more willing to search around for decent places has just sorted the wheat from the chaff

[Tratvia]

I hate smoking, it's disgusting however the ban has killed the pubs!

Nah, it's the fact that the average pint is about £3.50.

You can pop down an offy and get a four-pack for that sort of money.

Quite so. If I were ever in a position to do so, I'd up the duty on off-licence booze a bit and lower the pub duty considerably to try and redress the balance.

*puffs pipe*

[Ifreann]

Since when were smoking bans about getting people to quit?

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I fully understand and condone smoking bans in work places, stores, and restaurants but bars, parks, and sidewalks are another thing entirely. Bars are full of adults already, most of them imbibing poisonous substances that cause more short term damage than inhaling someone's smoke on occasion does in the long term, parks and sidewalks are in the open air where the smoke is carried away by the wind and dispersed into the area (outside is pretty big or so I am told anyway) where it has minimal effect; designated smoking sections in outside areas are fine with me but outright bans outdoors without good reason such as you'll catch the forest on fire are a step too far.

I'm not even a smoker and in fact inhaling cigarette smoke makes me choke but some regulations are getting pretty silly.

I don't know about the establishments you frequent, but in just about every pub, bar and club I've been to the bar staff weren't imbibing any poisonous substances. Since bans on smoking in those places are about protecting them, the whole "Oh, well they're already doing themselves harm" argument sort of falls apart. Oh, and incidentally, not all licensed premises are restricted to over 18s. Children are allowed in to some with their parents.

---

I hate smoking, it's disgusting however the ban has killed the pubs!

Not really, though.

---

I hate smoking, it's disgusting however the ban has killed the pubs!

Nah, it's the fact that the average pint is about £3.50.

You can pop down an offy and get a four-pack for that sort of money.

You could go to Tesco and get enough alcohol for that money to kill and preserve a man.

[Tagmatium]

Nah, it's the fact that the average pint is about £3.50.

You can pop down an offy and get a four-pack for that sort of money.

Quite so. If I were ever in a position to do so, I'd up the duty on off-licence booze a bit and lower the pub duty considerably to try and redress the balance.

*puffs pipe*

That would be ideal, but I suppose it runs counter to the last two governments' attempts to alter our drinking behaviour by putting up the price of booze.

[Sapiens Isles]

I fully understand and condone smoking bans in work places, stores, and restaurants but bars, parks, and sidewalks are another thing entirely. Bars are full of adults already, most of them imbibing poisonous substances that cause more short term damage than inhaling someone's smoke on occasion does in the long term, parks and sidewalks are in the open air where the smoke is carried away by the wind and dispersed into the area (outside is pretty big or so I am told anyway) where it has minimal effect; designated smoking sections in outside areas are fine with me but outright bans outdoors without good reason such as you'll catch the forest on fire are a step too far.

I'm not even a smoker and in fact inhaling cigarette smoke makes me choke but some regulations are getting pretty silly.

The idea that since these people are already drinking it's not a problem that they're around smoke is completely absurd. There is a large difference between liver damage and lung damage. Let people choose which organ of theirs they want to neglect. It doesn't matter if you're getting drunk off your ass or if you're just there to sip a splash of beer and be on your way; you have the right to not inhale smoke.

Besides, no one forces you to drink if you're at a bar. If people were to smoke in the bar, however, you're kinda forced to inhale it if you stay.

[Horsefish]

I smoke when I'm drinking and I don't mind it. I don't come back stinking of smoke every night, and you do meet new people each night.

PRobally the best solution, though it's not as good up north, it rains a lot more.

[Ifreann]

Nah, it's the fact that the average pint is about £3.50.

You can pop down an offy and get a four-pack for that sort of money.

Quite so. If I were ever in a position to do so, I'd up the duty on off-licence booze a bit and lower the pub duty considerably to try and redress the balance.

*puffs pipe*

Does the balance actually need redressing, though? When you buy drink in an off-licence you're just paying for the drink. When you go to a pub you're paying for the service and the atmosphere/ambience/whatever. It only follows that pubs would be more expensive.

[Kryozerkia]

Back when Toronto went to prohibit smoking in restaurants and pubs, there was an uproar about how it would kill business. It's many years later and you will find few if any pubs that complain about lost business. There exists an exception for "clubs" or places that charge a nominal fee.

For those saying that inhalation of smoke is irrelevant, the concern is more for the workers who have a right to a safe work environment. This was the entire reason behind the indoor smoking ban. Which is a fair and reasonable accommodation, especially when outdoor patios can still be used for smoking provided that it is well ventilated.

I remember visiting Amsterdam and being shocked that the servers smoked while on duty (if only because such a notion never occurred to me). I also found myself slighted disgusted because other patrons smoked while people ate. I didn't say anything because I was a tourist but even still, it was a bit of a culture shock after having lived under the smoking-ban laws for a few years.

After the ban has been around, those who don't smoke will develop an appreciation for the new law.

[Horsefish]

Quite so. If I were ever in a position to do so, I'd up the duty on off-licence booze a bit and lower the pub duty considerably to try and redress the balance.

*puffs pipe*

Does the balance actually need redressing, though? When you buy drink in an off-licence you're just paying for the drink. When you go to a pub you're paying for the service and the atmosphere/ambience/whatever. It only follows that pubs would be more expensive.

But £3.50 a pint? Bit too high.

Though I'd lower duty on both just because I'm poor.

[Samuraikoku]

I don't believe it hurts smokers if they have to go outside. And it certainly doesn't hurt non-smokers inside.

[Tagmatium]

Does the balance actually need redressing, though? When you buy drink in an off-licence you're just paying for the drink. When you go to a pub you're paying for the service and the atmosphere/ambience/whatever. It only follows that pubs would be more expensive.

But £3.50 a pint? Bit too high.

Though I'd lower duty on both just because I'm poor.

Well, that's the average cost I've seen in pubs in Bristol, Reading and now lovely Staines. I'm not sure that's the cost across the nation.

[Horsefish]

But £3.50 a pint? Bit too high.

Though I'd lower duty on both just because I'm poor.

Well, that's the average cost I've seen in pubs in Bristol, Reading and now lovely Staines. I'm not sure that's the cost across the nation.

It's simaler everywhere I've seen. Manchester is different but we haven't gone to many proper pubs, and when we do we just buy the cheapest stuff.

Sheffields student club thing was about £3.40!

[Tratvia]

Me too, but the flibertigibbets and flubberhaddocks currently in office say the budget needs balancing, so I'd cut the pub duty by as much as I raised the off-licence duty (I mean... you can get beer more cheaply than Coca-Cola in Tesco's. Surely that isn't right.

[Tagmatium]

Me too, but the flibertigibbets and flubberhaddocks currently in office say the budget needs balancing, so I'd cut the pub duty by as much as I raised the off-licence duty (I mean... you can get beer more cheaply than Coca-Cola in Tesco's. Surely that isn't right.

It is a bit strange, I must say.

It's simaler everywhere I've seen. Manchester is different but we haven't gone to many proper pubs, and when we do we just buy the cheapest stuff.

Sheffields student club thing was about £3.40!

That's ridiculous.

[Ifreann]

Back when Toronto went to prohibit smoking in restaurants and pubs, there was an uproar about how it would kill business. It's many years later and you will find few if any pubs that complain about lost business.

Much the same happened here. Though pubs are complaining about lost business, but it's because of far cheaper alcohol being sold in big supermarket chains and the general shiteness of the economy.

And the drink-driving limit, strangely.

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Does the balance actually need redressing, though? When you buy drink in an off-licence you're just paying for the drink. When you go to a pub you're paying for the service and the atmosphere/ambience/whatever. It only follows that pubs would be more expensive.

But £3.50 a pint? Bit too high.

Though I'd lower duty on both just because I'm poor.

That is a strong motivating factor.