NationStates

I'm American but I'm in college right now and I've been learning about politics in the UK. The one thing I can't really grasp are what the major policy platform differences are between the Liberal Democrats and Labour? To me they both look like progressive centre left parties. Also why did the Lib Dems form a coalition with the Conservatives? I know if there's no majority new elections have to be called (at least that's how it is in other parliamentary systems, correct me if I'm wrong about the UK) but to me that makes more sense than a right-left coalition. Has it forced Cameron to be more moderate?

Last but not least I know the UK is unitary but I've only ever lived in a Federal system and I was wondering if the local governments have any power at all and what turnout is like in local elections.

I know these questions might seem like something that could be easily looked up but I have looked them up and I'm still not really grasping it so I thought the insight of someone who actually lives in the UK (or any other unitary system) would help.

the prime minister david cameron formed a coalition government with the lib dems bacause labour and the conservatives do have 50% of the government each and bacause they can never agree to anything the lib dems had to come in so if the conservatives impose a new law the lib dems will side with them and they will outnumber the labour so the ressolution will be past. otherwise the government would never be able to impose more laws or bans bcause labour will always say no to the conservatives. so the lib dems have to come in and labour and the conservatives have to persuade the lib dems to side with them

you understand?

That would make sense except that to me it seems like the liberal democrats are to the left of labour, especially since we're dealing with the new labor party. Is there a chance of the liberal democrats replacing the labour party as the dominant centre left party or is the discontent with labour not to that point yet?

I think that at this stage Labour would be slightly to the right of the Lib-Dems. And the Lib-Dems and the Conservatives formed a coalition for the same reason all parties everywhere for coalitions; to gain power.

Antafrica wrote:That would make sense except that to me it seems like the liberal democrats are to the left of labour, especially since we're dealing with the new labor party. Is there a chance of the liberal democrats replacing the labour party as the dominant centre left party or is the discontent with labour not to that point yet?

firstly even if they are with labour on most accounts its the only way for laws, bans and ressolutions to take place
secondly labour is much bigger and populour then the lib dems so unlikely

The differences between Labour and Lib dem used to be the Lib dems were more central in idealogy, while Labour was hardline left, this has lessened somewhat with new labour and Tony Blair, that and the Lib dems are known for having more out of the box policies, and a complete misunderstanding of reality adn whats possible.

Its not nececerily the case that a new election would have to be called as the Conservatives could have continued alone, it would have just been unworkable in practise to form a minority government. You have to remember that the Conservatives are only just right of centre, and there is very little difference these days in practise, in theory the Conservatives would (or should ideologically) want to shrink the state to a good degree, but to do so would be political suicide in the short term at least. So the choice between Labour or Conservative isnt as big as could be thought. Given that it came down to a bidding war, which the Conservatives won by offering Clegg and the Lib Dems a referendum on the Alternative vote system, which was thankfully defeated, and if passed could possibly have given the Lib dems a massive boast in power potential.

The local government has some power, but they are limited and ussually administered by redundent and useless wastes of taxpayer money (my opinion, and the opinion of a lot of people I know) as they are consistantly either wrong or overly complicated and beurocratic and even when they are demonstratably incorrect the power just goes mad and denies everything, or loses the evidence, or wraps it up in red tape, oh don't even start with the red tape.

Antafrica wrote:Is there a chance of the liberal democrats replacing the labour party as the dominant centre left party or is the discontent with labour not to that point yet?

Unlikely. The Lib Dems are deeply unpopular at the moment, because many of their original voters are angry that they have sided with the Conservatives and given up on some of their core polices. As a result, the Lib Dems are at their lowest in the polls, whereas Labour is currently highest in most polls.

Antafrica wrote:That would make sense except that to me it seems like the liberal democrats are to the left of labour, especially since we're dealing with the new labor party.

Nick Clegg is a power hungry twat.

Is there a chance of the liberal democrats replacing the labour party as the dominant centre left party or is the discontent with labour not to that point yet?

No. Not a chance. 4 out of 5 Lib Dem voters have abandoned them.

Cromarty wrote:No. Not a chance. 4 out of 5 Lib Dem voters have abandoned them.

Not exactly... there still isn`t really any alternative for voters who have certain priorities (such as the environment) so their core vote is unlikely to drop any further.

Well I think the Liberal Democrats are actually a very broad party. The Lib Dems were formed by the merging of the liberals (a central progressive party) and the Social Democrats (a left progressive party) so whilst their are some Lib Dem's who fit in with Labour who would probably be Social Democrats and those who fit in with the Conservatives who are probably liberals. Lib Dem voters are probably further left than the elected politicians (which is also why they fit in with their coalition partners). Local government in the UK is a joke, Town/Parish and County councils are a joke voter turn out is around 30% and often people vote for the same people who they would in a general election so its essentially a popularity contest for Westminster.

Antafrica wrote:I'm American but I'm in college right now and I've been learning about politics in the UK. The one thing I can't really grasp are what the major policy platform differences are between the Liberal Democrats and Labour? To me they both look like progressive centre left parties. Also why did the Lib Dems form a coalition with the Conservatives? I know if there's no majority new elections have to be called (at least that's how it is in other parliamentary systems, correct me if I'm wrong about the UK) but to me that makes more sense than a right-left coalition. Has it forced Cameron to be more moderate?

Last but not least I know the UK is unitary but I've only ever lived in a Federal system and I was wondering if the local governments have any power at all and what turnout is like in local elections.

I know these questions might seem like something that could be easily looked up but I have looked them up and I'm still not really grasping it so I thought the insight of someone who actually lives in the UK (or any other unitary system) would help.

After the last election, Labour and the Liberal Democrats couldn't have formed a coalition because they were about 10 seats short of a majority. They wouldn't have been able to get any legislation passed unless one of the minor parties agreed to support them.

It's not true that new elections have to be called if no party has a majority. In fact, in most parliamentary systems no party ever holds a majority. The opposite is true in Britain because it has the FPTP system, which is biased towards whichever party wins the most votes. The rule is that the parties in government must hold the majority of seats in parliament (in this case, I mean the House of Commons. The House of Lords doesn't have much influence). Otherwise, the parliament can simply vote to remove the prime minister from office (called a "vote of no confidence") which means an election has to be called.

The Liberal Democrats identify themselves as being closer to Labour than the Conservatives, but willing to work with either. They tend to be more pro-European than pro-US; for example they opposed the Iraq War. They are the most pro-EU party in Parliament. Labour are also pro-EU, but lately they've been considering holding a referendum on EU membership. They also support civil liberties and oppose increasing surveillance or anti-terror laws. Unfortunately, they had a "read my lips: no new taxes moment" last year when Nick Clegg (their leader) supported a rise in tuition fees which he'd previously promised to block.

The Liberal Democrats have always been underrepresented in parliament; in the last election they took 24% of the vote but just 8% of the seats. They have long campaigned for changing the voting system to a proportional system. The only move the coalition made towards this was to hold a referendum on the AV system (which isn't actually much different from FPTP in terms of the results it produces) and this was rejected by voters. Neither Labour or the Conservatives want to change the voting system, since it works in their favour.

In effect, David Cameron is more moderate than he would have been if the Conservatives had won a majority, especially on EU issues.

The UK is quite centralised. Local councils only really have control over running public services and planning. Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland have their own "devolved" governments, which are much more powerful and control some things such as education and transport. However, there exists a problem called the "West Lothian Question". England has no devolved government and given that it contains 85% of the population, it would be a bit pointless to create one. But under the current arrangement, Scottish, Welsh and Northern Irish MPs can vote on issues affecting England which don't affect them.

Antafrica wrote:I'm American but I'm in college right now and I've been learning about politics in the UK. The one thing I can't really grasp are what the major policy platform differences are between the Liberal Democrats and Labour? To me they both look like progressive centre left parties.

Lib Dems are broadly more interested in constitutional reforms. Labour's manifesto is written for plebs. That's your difference in policy platform (if not actual outlook). I'd have voted Lib Dem last time if I didn't know that they'd be as weak as they have been. But I did, so there we are.

Also why did the Lib Dems form a coalition with the Conservatives?

Because they wanted to be in a government. Any government. Unfortunately for them, they're now about as beloved as an arsenic and dog shit milkshake.

I know if there's no majority new elections have to be called (at least that's how it is in other parliamentary systems, correct me if I'm wrong about the UK) but to me that makes more sense than a right-left coalition.

Nah there have been minority governments in Westminster. Also I don't think anyone wanted another round of elections in 2010. Labour and the Lib Dems were broke, and the Tories could easily have seen their position slip away from them, given that they couldn't even win a proper majority over a battered Brown government.

Has it forced Cameron to be more moderate?

The Lib Dems would love to say yes, the truth is, of course, unknowable.

Last but not least I know the UK is unitary but I've only ever lived in a Federal system and I was wondering if the local governments have any power at all and what turnout is like in local elections.

Turnout varies, local governments have eh not much power really, seeing as they get a lot of their money from central government, and in many respects live by its diktats anyway.

Antafrica wrote:I'm American but I'm in college right now and I've been learning about politics in the UK. The one thing I can't really grasp are what the major policy platform differences are between the Liberal Democrats and Labour? To me they both look like progressive centre left parties. Also why did the Lib Dems form a coalition with the Conservatives? I know if there's no majority new elections have to be called (at least that's how it is in other parliamentary systems, correct me if I'm wrong about the UK) but to me that makes more sense than a right-left coalition. Has it forced Cameron to be more moderate?

Last but not least I know the UK is unitary but I've only ever lived in a Federal system and I was wondering if the local governments have any power at all and what turnout is like in local elections.

I know these questions might seem like something that could be easily looked up but I have looked them up and I'm still not really grasping it so I thought the insight of someone who actually lives in the UK (or any other unitary system) would help.

i think i can explain the whys very well

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AIGcCZapY3s

the lib dems are a pretty split party iirc. a mix of left and right at the bottom and right wing pricks all the way up the top.

but really the answer is that now everyone is the tories (conservatives) on an endless march right-ward

but hmm, this isn't an answer. despite the march right-ward, the lib dem leadership is still a hell of a more market oriented than labour. (or were) and half of the authoritarian shit that new labour threw in would probably never fly there. also tuition fees, ahahahaha.

Let's see, so much (subjective) wrong in this thread I didn't know where to start.

The broad differences between the Lib Dems and Labour are that the LDs are more socially liberal while Labour has a lot more authoritarian tendencies. On the economic front they (or we) are less left wing than they are.

Obviously there are variations within party positions. All the parties are umbrella organisations, more recently the Lib Dems have shifted more towards the 'orange book' more economically liberal side of things aligning them nearer the Conservatives (although the mathematics of seat numbers played the biggest role in forming the coalition).

The Liberal Democrats are really any more divided than the other two parties, but it's something that tends to get spouted because the party was formed out of a merger of two parties (Liberals and SDP).

Okay so this is what I've gathered so far.

1.lib dems are more oriented towards social liberal policies and electoral reform than labour.

2. The party is kind of a mess though and a lot of people think they sold out.

3. Nobody really likes Nick Clegg.

4. Local government in the UK is a joke.

Is there any reason in particular why the AV referendum failed? I've always thought it was a good idea and I can see why the parties would hate it but I would think it would have a pretty good chance as a referendum.

Antafrica wrote:Okay so this is what I've gathered so far.

1.lib dems are more oriented towards social liberal policies and electoral reform than labour.

2. The party is kind of a mess though and a lot of people think they sold out.

3. Nobody really likes Nick Clegg.

4. Local government in the UK is a joke.

Is there any reason in particular why the AV referendum failed? I've always thought it was a good idea and I can see why the parties would hate it but I would think it would have a pretty good chance as a referendum.

1. Yes, but they've got bless-all to show for it.

2. Yes, and they did. Clegg whipped his MPs into supporting a lot of unpopular Tory policies in the hope of getting his payback later. Unfortunately the Tory backbenchers didn't play ball. It's cost them their opportunity to gerrymander the next election, though, so it's not all bad.

3. Even his mother doesn't like Nick Clegg.

4. Thatcher gutted local government in the eighties, because most local authorities were Labour. Blair and Brown didn't restore local government autonomy because by then most local government was Tory.

The thing with local government in the UK is that it's purely administrative, in contrast to the legislative local government in the US.

And yes, nobody likes the back-stabbing, spineless wimp who betrayed every Lib Dem voter Nick 'I'm a Fucking Twat' Clegg.

Antafrica wrote:I'm American but I'm in college right now and I've been learning about politics in the UK. The one thing I can't really grasp are what the major policy platform differences are between the Liberal Democrats and Labour? To me they both look like progressive centre left parties. Also why did the Lib Dems form a coalition with the Conservatives? I know if there's no majority new elections have to be called (at least that's how it is in other parliamentary systems, correct me if I'm wrong about the UK) but to me that makes more sense than a right-left coalition. Has it forced Cameron to be more moderate?

Last but not least I know the UK is unitary but I've only ever lived in a Federal system and I was wondering if the local governments have any power at all and what turnout is like in local elections.

I know these questions might seem like something that could be easily looked up but I have looked them up and I'm still not really grasping it so I thought the insight of someone who actually lives in the UK (or any other unitary system) would help.

So when you're looking at British politics, you've got to think in terms of social class. Your average Labour voter is working-class, union-member, supports giving money to the poor and taking it away from rich people. The Conservatives appeal to rich business owners, and also do a nice line in land-owners and property developers. Lib Dems appeal to the middle classes, who probably work in middle management or IT, and who feel more about liberal issues like feeding the poor and saving the whale.