What is your "Moral Event Horizon"?

[Risottia]

I don't consider anything unacceptable in all circumstances. Not lying, not stealing, not beating, not rape, not killing, ect. I'll do anything to further my own interests. I don't give a damn how it affects others, as long as it's serves me well.

You know, that pretty much sums up what I define as "evil".

[Volnotova]

Semantics bending is acceptable to me.

Statements must be true at all times, even if they can be misleading (to some) (at times).

I didn't "kill" that hooker, I just made jabbing motions in the air and she got in the way!

I can recall a thread once where someone (commenting on my semantics bending) said that "It's like Humphrey Applebee wrote a chapter of the Talmud in here.(sic)".

I can't think of much other than rape to be honest, given I can't think of a conceivable situation in which that would be the moral choice.

Murder - in an elastic sense of killing an innocent person - theft.. what else there?

Lying, no problems, I'll avoid it when I can but 'do I look fat' is no time to be telling the truth.

I refuse to lie even if it is just my mom telling me that if the phone rings I am to tell she is not there.

We all have things we consider unacceptable, immoral, repulsive or at the very least, make us feel highly uncomfortable.

However, there are such acts that go beyond just that, actions and trains of thought that go beyond the unacceptable. One's that are simply so monstrous and revolting, so utterly deviant and unspeakable that only the most depraved and sickest of minds would contemplate comitting such an act.

In short, what is your Moral Event Horizion? Acts which you consider the line in the sand, the point of no return.

---

If there is any act I would label as my "Moral Event Horizon" it is lying. There is nothing that puts me off as much as lying(Yes, even more so than genocide, animal cruelty or child abuse), it is something I consider unacceptable in ALL circumstances, no exceptions of any kind.

If I could save an innocent life, a familly member, a friend or even my self trough lying I will refuse, it is simply not an acceptable course of action to me, ever. Mind you though that this has ended me up in some pretty odd situations were people seemed rather confused and even agitated that I wouldn't cover their asses by lying for them(To be exact, asking me to do such a thing is something I consider a grave insult).

And accusing me of dishonesty is something that is garantued to send me foaming at the mouth at even the slightest insinuation.

i also dislike lying but over the years i have come to accept it as a normal part of human interaction that everyone does. even me from time to time. so i stopped worrying about the mote in someone else's eye and focused on the beam in my own.

then i felt better.

I can't get my self to lie, ever, even the very thought of doing so is absolutely sickening to me.

[New England and The Maritimes]

The most satisfying explanation I've read for the Nazis is the normal drift that comes with unaccountability and isolation of a political body. He starts off in his election making some passing references here and there, going as far as to blame his opponents for certain problems, but by the middle of the 30s when Hitler has no real challenge to doing whatever the hell he wants, we get long, involved diatribes about how it's jews who are personally responsible for literally everything wrong in Germany, then by the 40s he publicly calls for their removal from society.

Instead of it being his "secret plan" it's him attempting to pander while his vision of normal and extreme were obscured by the insular environment that dictatorships necessitate.

That's intriguing. Do you by any chance remember the book or article you read about that? I'd love to read more. It just so happens that I was recently watching a documentary about the history of white supremacism in the USA, and I'd be interested in seeing what parallels there would be between Nazi "subculture" in Germany (though really it would have just been the regular culture-culture, since it became mainstream), and the white power subculture in the USA. I think the idea that the insular nature of the racist subculture acts to intensify the ideology is a very plausible idea, but I hadn't heard this idea applied to Hitler before.

I think it was called... The Banality of Evil or something like that. Basically explaining it as completely normal politicians of the time doing what politicians are supposed to do, and the factors leading up to the holocaust seem to have made it perfectly rational in their eyes.

[Bottle]

That's intriguing. Do you by any chance remember the book or article you read about that? I'd love to read more. It just so happens that I was recently watching a documentary about the history of white supremacism in the USA, and I'd be interested in seeing what parallels there would be between Nazi "subculture" in Germany (though really it would have just been the regular culture-culture, since it became mainstream), and the white power subculture in the USA. I think the idea that the insular nature of the racist subculture acts to intensify the ideology is a very plausible idea, but I hadn't heard this idea applied to Hitler before.

I think it was called... The Banality of Evil or something like that. Basically explaining it as completely normal politicians of the time doing what politicians are supposed to do, and the factors leading up to the holocaust seem to have made it perfectly rational in their eyes.

Oh, far out, I know that book. That's a classic, and (like many classics) I've never gotten around to reading it. TO THE BOOKSHELVES!

[Volnotova]

I don't consider anything unacceptable in all circumstances. Not lying, not stealing, not beating, not rape, not killing, ect. I'll do anything to further my own interests. I don't give a damn how it affects others, as long as it's serves me well.

There are many things I could forgive you for.

Physical and sexual abuse? Yes. Killing, even to the point of mass murder and genocide? Not something that I think would be beyond me (as far as forgiving you for it). Theft, to the point of running mult-billion dollar ponzi schemes? Yes.

Even if those situations involved me as a victim.

But lying? I would never ever forgive you for such a thing, not even a minor lie. To me such an act has you cross the moral event horizon, after which you are beyond the point of no return.

[The Land Fomerly Known as Ligerplace]

I don't consider anything unacceptable in all circumstances. Not lying, not stealing, not beating, not rape, not killing, ect. I'll do anything to further my own interests. I don't give a damn how it affects others, as long as it's serves me well.

There are many things I could forgive you for.

Physical and sexual abuse? Yes. Killing, even to the point of mass murder and genocide? Not something that I think would be beyond me (as far as forgiving you for it). Theft, to the point of running mult-billion dollar ponzi schemes? Yes.

Lying? I would never ever forgive you for such a thing, not even a minor lie.

I am John Galt.

Come at me bro.

[French Union]

I don't consider anything unacceptable in all circumstances. Not lying, not stealing, not beating, not rape, not killing, ect. I'll do anything to further my own interests. I don't give a damn how it affects others, as long as it's serves me well.

You know, that pretty much sums up what I define as "evil".

I don't consider actions as good or evil, good and evil is just an opinion anyway. There just tools used to get a desired result.

[French Union]

I don't consider anything unacceptable in all circumstances. Not lying, not stealing, not beating, not rape, not killing, ect. I'll do anything to further my own interests. I don't give a damn how it affects others, as long as it's serves me well.

There are many things I could forgive you for.

Physical and sexual abuse? Yes. Killing, even to the point of mass murder and genocide? Not something that I think would be beyond me (as far as forgiving you for it). Theft, to the point of running mult-billion dollar ponzi schemes? Yes.

Even if those situations involved me as a victim.

But lying? I would never ever forgive you for such a thing, not even a minor lie. To me such an act has you cross the moral event horizon, after which you are beyond the point of no return.

I find it very odd you would forgive someone if your the victim. Why?

[Bottle]

You know, that pretty much sums up what I define as "evil".

I don't consider actions as good or evil, good and evil is just an opinion anyway. There just tools used to get a desired result.

Man, I remember the week after I read Atlas Shrugged, too.

Good times.

[Dr_Puppet]

I find it very odd you would forgive someone if your the victim. Why?

I can't comment for the other poster but for myself I could envisage a situation where it would be for the greater good or bring me closure over the event.

[The Quadruple Alliance]

Going Hatless. Shaving one's mustache.

[Volnotova]

There are many things I could forgive you for.

Physical and sexual abuse? Yes. Killing, even to the point of mass murder and genocide? Not something that I think would be beyond me (as far as forgiving you for it). Theft, to the point of running mult-billion dollar ponzi schemes? Yes.

Even if those situations involved me as a victim.

But lying? I would never ever forgive you for such a thing, not even a minor lie. To me such an act has you cross the moral event horizon, after which you are beyond the point of no return.

I find it very odd you would forgive someone if your the victim. Why?

I have been abused, humiliated, etc.

But I have forgiven all those people. But lying is something I refuse to forgive people for. I might hang out with you, I might even genuinely like you in some way, but the moment you lie to me or about me(especially the latter) you have crossed the line.

[Herador]

Rape, murder, abduction, that sort of thing.

[Risottia]

You know, that pretty much sums up what I define as "evil".

I don't consider actions as good or evil, good and evil is just an opinion anyway.

Exactly. Definitions I give are of course the product of my opinion.

There just tools used to get a desired result.

There? Oh, "they're".
No, not quite, not always.

[Volnotova]

I find it very odd you would forgive someone if your the victim. Why?

I can't comment for the other poster but for myself I could envisage a situation where it would be for the greater good or bring me closure over the event.

To me lying is a sort of universal act of defiliment.

It deprives the world of truth, of meaning, it deprives people, ideologies, religions, nations, etc. of their essence.

To lie is to kill the (whole) world.

[Awesomeland]

In short, what is your Moral Event Horizion? Acts which you consider the line in the sand, the point of no return.

My worldview excludes the concept of "return", as entropy always increases. Anything you do bad, I consider to permanently reflect upon your nature and will never forgive. It might not be relevant to the current issues, but I will still consider it a part of your fundamental character. If you lie to me, I view you as a pathological liar. If you murder people, I view you as a homicidal maniac. People do things because that is how they are. Morality doesn't really enter into the picture, it is simply an emotional illusion popular with children, idiots, and non-engineers.

However, the thing I find most distasteful in people is irrationality. If someone murders, but does so for reasons that derive logically from his positions, one can deal with this. When someone does things for absolutely no rational reason, even if those things are not even atrocious, I can't consider such a person to be reliable, because such people are basically just ticking time bombs waiting to flip out for absolutely no reason.

[Urcea]

Infidelity. Nothing in my mind is a worse action than infidelity, either in marriage or even in relationships. It takes trust, a basic human action, that a person has for another and burns it. It is a rejection of everything the relationship is based upon, and can have the worst lasting effect.

[Xeng He]

I didn't "kill" that hooker, I just made jabbing motions in the air and she got in the way!

I can recall a thread once where someone (commenting on my semantics bending) said that "It's like Humphrey Applebee wrote a chapter of the Talmud in here.(sic)".

Okay, I want to play now.


"Oh, come on, officer, don't you think this is incredible? This is just one of several cases of murdered prostitutes in this area alone! Wouldn't it be more likely, officer, that this is not just a killing but a killing spree? Yeah? Glad you f***ing think so. Christ. This isn't hard to follow."

"Anyways, I don't think I could have been part of any spree of killings in the area. I was in Scarsdale catching up with a friend up till midnight last night, for the past three days. So..."

[Risottia]

It deprives the world of truth, of meaning, it deprives people, ideologies, religions, nations, etc. of their essence.
To lie is to kill the (whole) world.

The whole world? Not just the sentence/speech where the lie is placed?

[Volnotova]

In short, what is your Moral Event Horizion? Acts which you consider the line in the sand, the point of no return.

My worldview excludes the concept of "return", as entropy always increases. Anything you do bad, I consider to permanently reflect upon your nature and will never forgive. It might not be relevant to the current issues, but I will still consider it a part of your fundamental character. If you lie to me, I view you as a pathological liar. If you murder people, I view you as a homicidal maniac. People do things because that is how they are. Morality doesn't really enter into the picture, it is simply an emotional illusion popular with children, idiots, and non-engineers.

However, the thing I find most distasteful in people is irrationality. If someone murders, but does so for reasons that derive logically from his positions, one can deal with this. When someone does things for absolutely no rational reason, even if those things are not even atrocious, I can't consider such a person to be reliable, because such people are basically just ticking time bombs waiting to flip out for absolutely no reason.

I am an ethical nihilist.

Yet I still acknowledge that I have moral instincts, and while I have shrug off many of them, if I were to go any further it would be akin to suicide.

[Xeng He]

Semantics bending is acceptable to me.

Statements must be true at all times, even if they can be misleading (to some) (at times).

Hum.

What do you think of claims that are possibly true or possibly false, but are made without checking in the interests of time or convenience?

[Kilobugya]

In short, what is your Moral Event Horizion? Acts which you consider the line in the sand, the point of no return.

Needless use of violence (or needlessly high level of violence) on a human person.

That. All form of violence, physical or psychological.

If there is any act I would label as my "Moral Event Horizon" it is lying.

Can I ask why ? I consider lying to be something to avoid as much as possible (truth are entangled, so lies are contagious and tend to snowball into greater and greater lies, and at the same time they endanger a very precious thing which is trust) but I would definitely not put them above a human life - someone who lied to save a Jew from the Nazi is a hero, not a villain, and it was the moral thing to do in that situation.

[Luziyca]

My moral horizon is invading foreign nations WITHOUT provocation AND having foreign nations supporting the invaders.

[Volnotova]

It deprives the world of truth, of meaning, it deprives people, ideologies, religions, nations, etc. of their essence.
To lie is to kill the (whole) world.

The whole world? Not just the sentence/speech where the lie is placed?

To me lying feels like aiding in the destruction of the world, even more so than genocide or other destructive acts.

Genocide might kill people, wars might devastate infrastructure.

Buy lying deprives the world and all it has of meaning.

[The Land Fomerly Known as Ligerplace]

The whole world? Not just the sentence/speech where the lie is placed?

To me lying feels like aiding in the destruction of the world, even more so than genocide or other destructive acts.

Genocide might kill people, wars might devastate infrastructure.

Buy lying deprives the world and all it has of meaning.

You are the most lawful neutral person I have ever witnessed.