European Union wins Nobel Peace Prize

[Nazis in Space]

No war in Europe OK, let me think...Northern Ireland, Bosnia, Kosovo, Croatia, Invasion of Cyprus? And there was no war in Europe from 1945-1991 due to the presence of US and British troops under NATO plus weapons capable of producing a fraction of the sun's radiation, light and heat

How many of those countries were within the EU, which is the point being made?

The Greece/ Cyprus/ Turkey shenanigans is a pretty good example of what happens when you're

• In NATO
• Nuclear Weapons exist
• There's a big bad Soviet Union right next door
• No EU or its predecessors involved

oops

[Rubiconic Crossings V2 rev 1f]

I believe its called Cognitive Dissonance.

I think your diagnosis is - and I'll use the latin phrase - spot on, Doctor.

No. Cognitive Dissonance is having two (or more) fundamentally opposed ideas reconciled in ones belief system.

[Gravlen]

I think your diagnosis is - and I'll use the latin phrase - spot on, Doctor.

No. Cognitive Dissonance is having two (or more) fundamentally opposed ideas reconciled in ones belief system.

I knew I should have studied latin...

Next you'll tell me he's not even a doctor!

[Ostroeuropa]

Germany, France, and UK agree to stop murdering everybody.
Win an award.

"Omg, the germans are trying to become important!"
"Omg, let's killem."

all 3-
"Omg, the russians and americans are important now, we'd better stop killing eachother."

[Rubiconic Crossings V2 rev 1f]

No. Cognitive Dissonance is having two (or more) fundamentally opposed ideas reconciled in ones belief system.

I knew I should have studied latin...

Next you'll tell me he's not even a doctor!

Doctor of luuurve? Who knew?

[ArghNeedAName]

Then I suppose the people whose predictions about this crisis have been right so far have a full brain, and not half a brain. Does explain the look on Guy Verhofstadt's face when he Hitlers (no, really, check the link at the bottom) his way through European Parliament. Regardless, my issue is that this antidemocratic political union is taking credit for something that can only, using some very creative thinking, be attributed to something that amounted to little more than a trade deal. Right until the 1970s/1980s, there wasn't a lot of European Union. After that, something that coincided with slowed-down economic growth and a rise in dissatisfaction on all fronts, they tried to push through more and more restrictive political legislation, and the thing is now on the verge of collapse.

I really don't want these unelected bureaucrats, who are currently carrying out destructive policies based on objectively-false predictions, to take any credit for peace.
For the video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KNMi8wI-enM
Edit: another one: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r3XZJ4znl00

Please explain to me how the EU is undemocratic.

The European Council consists of the heads of state/ government - which you elected.

The Council of the European Union consists of the ministers with the relevant portfolia of the memberstates - elected indirectly as they're appointed by the winning parties and negotiated in coalition-negotiations. They're held accountable via elections (Via their parties' results therein), the whole system is identical to the one used in your national elections.

The European Parliament is voted for directly, proportional representation, split by nation. Again, quite democratic.

The European Commission is, indeed, not directly elected, but its size and powers are more indicative of cabinet-level than parliamentary positions - and it is elected in a similar fashion, by the European Parliament, which you'll remember is voted for directly by the electorare. Complaining about it being undemocratic is rather like complaining about your country's cabinet being undemocratic because the ministers were suggested by the head of government, and elected by the parliament.

I'm afraid that 'The EU isn't democratic!!!11oneoneone' soundbites are rather disengaged from reality.

Such criticisms can often be badly worded, though Vaclav Klaus, the president of the Czech Republic often sums it up well. Essentially, the EU doesn't function as a parliamentary system - not even like the "Polder model". Elections to the European Parliament have no real clout. Did the 2009 parliamentary elections really make a difference to how the EU was governed? Will Barroso, Van Rompuy or Schulz have to work hard to do their job successfully because they fear the 2014 elections will cost them their jobs? Will people like us have any influence over who fends up in charge of the European institutions? No, the elections won't change much; I expect eurosceptic parties will make some gains but the majority of MEPs elected will largely support continuing the policies and keeping them in office.

[Antrema]

Do tell, how does the EU destroy culture?

It destroys The original countries culture and replaces it with trashculture

You must be of the left wing, if so as a Helmerist socialist why are you opposed to the EU?

[Nazis in Space]

Please explain to me how the EU is undemocratic.

The European Council consists of the heads of state/ government - which you elected.

The Council of the European Union consists of the ministers with the relevant portfolia of the memberstates - elected indirectly as they're appointed by the winning parties and negotiated in coalition-negotiations. They're held accountable via elections (Via their parties' results therein), the whole system is identical to the one used in your national elections.

The European Parliament is voted for directly, proportional representation, split by nation. Again, quite democratic.

The European Commission is, indeed, not directly elected, but its size and powers are more indicative of cabinet-level than parliamentary positions - and it is elected in a similar fashion, by the European Parliament, which you'll remember is voted for directly by the electorare. Complaining about it being undemocratic is rather like complaining about your country's cabinet being undemocratic because the ministers were suggested by the head of government, and elected by the parliament.

I'm afraid that 'The EU isn't democratic!!!11oneoneone' soundbites are rather disengaged from reality.

Such criticisms can often be badly worded, though Vaclav Klaus, the president of the Czech Republic often sums it up well. Essentially, the EU doesn't function as a parliamentary system - not even like the "Polder model". Elections to the European Parliament have no real clout. Did the 2009 parliamentary elections really make a difference to how the EU was governed? Will Barroso, Van Rompuy or Schulz have to work hard to do their job successfully because they fear the 2014 elections will cost them their jobs? Will people like us have any influence over who fends up in charge of the European institutions? No, the elections won't change much; I expect eurosceptic parties will make some gains but the majority of MEPs elected will largely support continuing the policies and keeping them in office.

Rather debatable. It's true that relatively few people care about the EU parliament elections, and it's likewise true that they tend to largely toe the line their national governments and the institutions they occupy (The councils) provide. This is a bad thing, I'm not arguing that - though I'd very much argue that this isn't so much because the parliament is dependent on these institutions, but rather because it is filled with idealists who wish to advance the EU at all costs, even if the short-term benefits risk being long-term issues.

But the national governments in question are themselves elected. The clout (To an extend...) they have over the EU parliament is fundamentally supported by them being held accountable by their populace at home, via the national elections. They're still democratically legitimised, they're still held accountable by elections. Just, well, different ones.

This does mean that the EU legislative organisation needs to be worked upon. It does not, however, mean that the EU isn't democratic, seeing as all its institutions are still based on democratic legitimation via national elections.

With the EU Commission, well, the relative lack of interest in EU elections, combined with the people on the party lists tending to be second rate because the important ones go for the national parliaments instead, does indeed mean that it has a fairly easy time with the European Parliament. It's just... Them having to deal with a relatively easy-going parliament doesn't randomly mean said parliament isn't elected, or doesn't have the right to question the commission (It absolutely does have it, and uses it). Nevermind that the Commission can only propose new legislation, it cannot make it law - that's the parliament's job, too.

One might wish for a less cooperative parliament. But it being comparatively cooperative doesn't randomly make it undemocratic.

[Genivaria]

It destroys The original countries culture and replaces it with trashculture

You must be of the left wing, if so as a Helmerist socialist why are you opposed to the EU?

What does the EU have to do with Socialism?

[Nazis in Space]

You must be of the left wing, if so as a Helmerist socialist why are you opposed to the EU?

What does the EU have to do with Socialism?

It maintains the largest free market in the world, encourages private investment and enforces privatisation of state monopolies (Telecommunications come to mind).

Fucking commies.

[Gravlen]

I quite like Gravlax...

[Of the Free Socialist Territories]

What does the EU have to do with Socialism?

It maintains the largest free market in the world, encourages private investment and enforces privatisation of state monopolies (Telecommunications come to mind).

Fucking commies.

Obviously.

[Grand Britannia]

Will the prize get taken away if Russia joins the EU?

[ArghNeedAName]

Such criticisms can often be badly worded, though Vaclav Klaus, the president of the Czech Republic often sums it up well. Essentially, the EU doesn't function as a parliamentary system - not even like the "Polder model". Elections to the European Parliament have no real clout. Did the 2009 parliamentary elections really make a difference to how the EU was governed? Will Barroso, Van Rompuy or Schulz have to work hard to do their job successfully because they fear the 2014 elections will cost them their jobs? Will people like us have any influence over who fends up in charge of the European institutions? No, the elections won't change much; I expect eurosceptic parties will make some gains but the majority of MEPs elected will largely support continuing the policies and keeping them in office.

Rather debatable. It's true that relatively few people care about the EU parliament elections, and it's likewise true that they tend to largely toe the line their national governments and the institutions they occupy (The councils) provide. This is a bad thing, I'm not arguing that - though I'd very much argue that this isn't so much because the parliament is dependent on these institutions, but rather because it is filled with idealists who wish to advance the EU at all costs, even if the short-term benefits risk being long-term issues.

But the national governments in question are themselves elected. The clout (To an extend...) they have over the EU parliament is fundamentally supported by them being held accountable by their populace at home, via the national elections. They're still democratically legitimised, they're still held accountable by elections. Just, well, different ones.

This does mean that the EU legislative organisation needs to be worked upon. It does not, however, mean that the EU isn't democratic, seeing as all its institutions are still based on democratic legitimation via national elections.

With the EU Commission, well, the relative lack of interest in EU elections, combined with the people on the party lists tending to be second rate because the important ones go for the national parliaments instead, does indeed mean that it has a fairly easy time with the European Parliament. It's just... Them having to deal with a relatively easy-going parliament doesn't randomly mean said parliament isn't elected, or doesn't have the right to question the commission (It absolutely does have it, and uses it). Nevermind that the Commission can only propose new legislation, it cannot make it law - that's the parliament's job, too.

One might wish for a less cooperative parliament. But it being comparatively cooperative doesn't randomly make it undemocratic.

A possible solution to the problem with the lack of influence of EU elections is to introduce a small elected chamber (say, 100 seats) which is elected with pan-European parties only, to compliment the existing Parliament which is elected with national parties. I'm against having an elected EU-president because of the "winner-takes-all" nature of the presidential systems.

[Rubiconic Crossings V2 rev 1f]

I quite like Gravlax...

oh mate...it's fucking scrummy yummy!

[Ethel mermania]

oh mate...it's fucking scrummy yummy!

Fwiw I prefer my salmon smoked not buried. But I have had it, its ok. When you start singing the praises of lutefisk, we will send the men in the white jackets for you.

[Genivaria]

Will the prize get taken away if Russia joins the EU?

It wouldn't be the EU anymore would it?
Unless EU then mean't Eurasian Union.....hmm that could work actually.
But it'll never happen as long as Putin is in power.

[Rubiconic Crossings V2 rev 1f]

oh mate...it's fucking scrummy yummy!

Fwiw I prefer my salmon smoked not buried. But I have had it, its ok. When you start singing the praises of lutefisk, we will send the men in the white jackets for you.

You only need to send the men in white coats if I get a total craving for Hákarl...yes it is Icelandic but hey...its still Scandinavian as far as I'm concerned...

[Grand Britannia]

Will the prize get taken away if Russia joins the EU?

It wouldn't be the EU anymore would it?
Unless EU then mean't Eurasian Union.....hmm that could work actually.
But it'll never happen as long as Putin is in power.

Well....

[Genivaria]

It wouldn't be the EU anymore would it?
Unless EU then mean't Eurasian Union.....hmm that could work actually.
But it'll never happen as long as Putin is in power.

Well....

Grrreat so there'll be TWO EU's at the same time!

[Herskerstad]

Last time I checked 'dagbladet' which is moderate/left leaning, the user-base did a poll that had a 72% dissatisfied view over the matter. Being in Norway, it is easy to tell that this has caused quite a controversy, as is also apparent in nations that are inside the EU, but struggling.

Though if there is one thing that has kept the peace in Europe, it is NATO, not the EU.

[Nazis in Space]

Last time I checked 'dagbladet' which is moderate/left leaning, the user-base did a poll that had a 72% dissatisfied view over the matter. Being in Norway, it is easy to tell that this has caused quite a controversy, as is also apparent in nations that are inside the EU, but struggling.

Though if there is one thing that has kept the peace in Europe, it is NATO, not the EU.

Bullshit.

[Grand Britannia]

Well....

Grrreat so there'll be TWO EU's at the same time!

Indeed

[Genivaria]

Grrreat so there'll be TWO EU's at the same time!

Indeed

Seriously though THAT'S not Eurasia.

THIS is Eurasia.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eurasia

Now THAT would be powerful.

[Grand Britannia]

Indeed

Seriously though THAT'S not Eurasia.

THIS is Eurasia.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eurasia

Now THAT would be powerful.

Well, to be fair, the actual EU doesn't constitute all of Europe either.