Suicide and You

[Alaje]

Defeatism? How is wanting to make something of your life defeatism? Your own hopes of immortality are commendable, but ultimately idealistic and utopian. Nature doesn't permit immortality to anything or anyone, you will eventually erode.

How many potentially fatal diseases have you survived?
Does the fact some didn't survive it make you better than them?

I haven't had any terminal illnesses.

[Ostroeuropa]

How many potentially fatal diseases have you survived?
Does the fact some didn't survive it make you better than them?

I haven't had any terminal illnesses.

And if you had, and died as a result, would you be a coward?

[IshCong]

How many potentially fatal diseases have you survived?
Does the fact some didn't survive it make you better than them?

I haven't had any terminal illnesses.

Ever had the flu?

[Gidgetisms]

It isn't cowardice, it takes a lot of courage to take that last step. Hell, I've been teetering for a few years now.

[Western Coalition (Ancient)]

Suicide as an idea is the apex of cowardice. You are basically stating you don't have what it takes to live your life no matter what it throws at you. This tells me you don't think very much of life itself, so you'd rather give up then hustle through it.

This said, I feel no sympathy for those who commit suicide. For there is no circumstance to horrible that cannot be endure that the decision to end your life becomes welcome. When you do, you're simply copping out, and this to me is the poorest of excuses.

Instead of this, just follow my baseball maxim.

In life, if you've got 3 strikes, your still not out. There is always one more thing you can do.

[Nazi Flower Power]

A much better approach to escaping one's problems. Even if Nambia turns out not to be everything you hoped it'd be, at least you can come back.

Unless your problems are inescapable, and are an intrinsic part of yourself as is the case with a mental disease or chronic and intense physical pain.
Or if you can't reach Nambia.

It's still easier to come back from Namibia than it is from being dead.

Anyway, a change of scenery can give you a new perspective on the situation. Sometimes it's hard to tell which problems are part of yourself and which are part of your environment, and literally running away from your problems is a way to figure it out. Even if you do have a mental illness, your environment can exacerbate it, and a change of scenery can help. That's part of the idea behind residential rehab programs.

[Ostroeuropa]

Suicide as an idea is the apex of cowardice. You are basically stating you don't have what it takes to live your life no matter what it throws at you. This tells me you don't think very much of life itself, so you'd rather give up then hustle through it.

This said, I feel no sympathy for those who commit suicide. For there is no circumstance to horrible to endure for you to decided to end your life. When you do, you're simply copping out, and this to me is the poorest of excuses.

You don't understand depression at all do you.

[Alaje]

I haven't had any terminal illnesses.

And if you had, and died as a result, would you be a coward?

If the disease kills you, no, but if you opt for euthanization, then yes.

[Ostroeuropa]

And if you had, and died as a result, would you be a coward?

If the disease kills you, no, but if you opt for euthanization, then yes.

The disease does kill you. It kills you through suicide. Clinical Depression is a well documented phenomanae. Since i'm a sufferer, i'm one of the few people on the planet who knows what it's like to have a massive statistical chance of knowing what's going to kill me.
Now, i AM medicated, so the chance is plummeted. But if i for some reason get off my meds, that chance shoots back up. It's a disorder of cognition. You can't blame the sobre person for what they thought while they were involuntarily drunk.
It's a measurable chemical imbalance. We would not blame a murderer for their crimes if we found their brain producing chemicals all out of whack, but you seem content to blame sufferers of depression for suicide.
Not only that, it's precisely this kind of bullshit that keeps people from seeking medical attention, you are perpetuating the notion of cowardice and assisting in killing thousands of people through reinforcing the idea that if they seek help they will be judged.

[IshCong]

Suicide as an idea is the apex of cowardice. You are basically stating you don't have what it takes to live your life no matter what it throws at you. This tells me you don't think very much of life itself, so you'd rather give up then hustle through it.

This said, I feel no sympathy for those who commit suicide. For there is no circumstance to horrible to endure for you to decided to end your life. When you do, you're simply copping out, and this to me is the poorest of excuses.

Yes, because being terminally ill and in so much pain that medicating you enough to dull that pain would kill you is a sign of weakness, and not wanting to live for another year in some of the most intense, chronic pain you can imagine is 'cowardice'. Because being mentally ill and being unable to make rational judgments is 'cowardice'. Because suffering repeated psychological traumas and having every attempt to find help met with accusations of 'cowardice' or nonchalant 'man up's is weakness. Because being ostracized by society is to be weak. Because contemplating something for weeks/months/years is just giving up on the spur of the moment rather than being totally broken in mind and body.

The possibility exists in all of us. Given the right pressures, the right events, the right body/illnesses, anyone could find themselves willing to commit suicide. You are not superior to those people just because you happened to have a better life, nor should you look down upon them and make their lives worse rather than dealing with them frankly and honestly and realizing they are Human beings who need to be dealt with as peers and given help if help is possible.

Your judgment that there is no circumstance too horrible to legitimize suicide is not some grand inherent truth, its a subjective judgment of your own making and not one that applies to the other 7 billion souls on this Earth.

[Western Coalition (Ancient)]

Suicide as an idea is the apex of cowardice. You are basically stating you don't have what it takes to live your life no matter what it throws at you. This tells me you don't think very much of life itself, so you'd rather give up then hustle through it.

This said, I feel no sympathy for those who commit suicide. For there is no circumstance to horrible to endure for you to decided to end your life. When you do, you're simply copping out, and this to me is the poorest of excuses.

You don't understand depression at all do you.

No, I understand depression. There has been a time in my life where I am depressed, but instead of letting it envelope me, I choose the harder choice. I continue my life by overcoming depression. It's called will power and I urge everyone to develop it to it's fullest extent.

[Alaje]

If the disease kills you, no, but if you opt for euthanization, then yes.

The disease does kill you. It kills you through suicide. Clinical Depression is a well documented phenomanae. Since i'm a sufferer, i'm one of the few people on the planet who knows what it's like to have a massive statistical chance of knowing what's going to kill me.
Now, i AM medicated, so the chance is plummeted. But if i for some reason get off my meds, that chance shoots back up. It's a disorder of cognition. You can't blame the sobre person for what they thought while they were involuntarily drunk.
It's a measurable chemical imbalance. We would not blame a murderer for their crimes if we found their brain producing chemicals all out of whack, but you seem content to blame sufferers of depression for suicide.
Not only that, it's precisely this kind of bullshit that keeps people from seeking medical attention, you are perpetuating the notion of cowardice and assisting in killing thousands of people through reinforcing the idea that if they seek help they will be judged.

Point taken.

[Ostroeuropa]

You don't understand depression at all do you.

No, I understand depression. There has been a time in my life where I am depressed, but instead of letting it envelope me, I choose the harder choice. I continue my life by overcoming depression. It's called will power and I urge everyone to develop it to it's fullest extent.

Calling bullshit.
You do not have depression, and you are indirectly causing people to die good sir.
WILLPOWER GUYS thats all we need to beat cancer. Will power is one of the only ways we know of that absolutely does NOT cure depression in any cases. Because if you have will power, you aren't a sufferer. Almost by definition

[French Union]

No, I understand depression. There has been a time in my life where I am depressed, but instead of letting it envelope me, I choose the harder choice. I continue my life by overcoming depression. It's called will power and I urge everyone to develop it to it's fullest extent.

Calling bullshit.
You do not have depression, and you are indirectly causing people to die good sir.
WILLPOWER GUYS thats all we need to beat cancer.

What?

[Gidgetisms]

You don't understand depression at all do you.

No, I understand depression. There has been a time in my life where I am depressed, but instead of letting it envelope me, I choose the harder choice. I continue my life by overcoming depression. It's called will power and I urge everyone to develop it to it's fullest extent.

That's like saying someone can get over cancer just by exercising will power. It is exactly this kind of attitude that makes it so hard to get help, this pervasive "get over it" idea. It is not something you can just "get over".

[Bralia]

You don't understand depression at all do you.

No, I understand depression. There has been a time in my life where I am depressed, but instead of letting it envelope me, I choose the harder choice. I continue my life by overcoming depression. It's called will power and I urge everyone to develop it to it's fullest extent.

If you still had willpower, then maybe you weren't as depressed as you thought you were . . .

[Ostroeuropa]

No, I understand depression. There has been a time in my life where I am depressed, but instead of letting it envelope me, I choose the harder choice. I continue my life by overcoming depression. It's called will power and I urge everyone to develop it to it's fullest extent.

That's like saying someone can get over cancer just by exercising will power. It is exactly this kind of attitude that makes it so hard to get help, this pervasive "get over it" idea. It is not something you can just "get over".

Beat you to it

[Yankee Empire]

Whats all this talk about not judging, people have a right to kill themselves but other people don't have the "right" to deride it or be critical of it?

To me whether suicide is justified is all dependant on the context, when I deride people criticise it as being cowardly, how do you know im just being mean? Perhaps i actually care and want them to live at least for a little while longer.

Suicide just because your sad seems lame to me, i've met many a person who were depressed or close to it (myself included) that haven't eventually gotten over it and haven't been thankful that they didn't commit suicide.

Suicide based on believing you have nothing more to live fore is another issue, and when seperate from simply being sad I can see justification for it, for esample suicide commitedby Samurai which was intentinally painful to prove they weren't killing themselves to escape pain, but because they simply had no other reason to live.

I can be critical of it and still be somewhat apathetic too it, the worlds becoming overpopulated anyway if some can't tuff if out then they can feel free to take themselves out of it, it's better than having abunch of lingering misanthropists and nihilists.

But one issue I have which I think is key too this is that suicide doesn't only affect an individual, if one were truly alone then I guess I wouldn't have much of a problem with it but it often effects others adversely which is selfish and uncaring of others, so forgive me if I seem tough on these potential suicides, seeming insensitive and all boo hoo, they often do the same thing, except not out of care but of selfishness.

I don't believe I'll ever kill myself because it's just not in my nature if i ever got tired of life i would just volunteer for some dangerous but important mission constantly until i dies,until then at least i'd be doing some good. I plan on joing the military soon and my view of life and eath is somewhat apathetic, i enjoy life but we'll all die one day so i'm not going to go out off my way to avoid the inevitable, also in a way somtimes im anxious to die, but interestingly enough that doesn't corss over into suicidal thoughts (at least not anymore).

Hey enjoy two songs on the topic! There is cursing, not for the children.
Necro-You did it
[url]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=778cZt5guq8[/url]
Biggie smalls -suicidal thoughts
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j-SZgsvV5mY

[IshCong]

Unless your problems are inescapable, and are an intrinsic part of yourself as is the case with a mental disease or chronic and intense physical pain.
Or if you can't reach Nambia.

It's still easier to come back from Namibia than it is from being dead.

That's irrelevant. You've been to Namibia and back, but because your problems are inescapable, leaving Namibia no more helps you than going to Namibia does. You're in the same boat as before, only now you can say you've seen Namibia.

Anyway, a change of scenery can give you a new perspective on the situation. Sometimes it's hard to tell which problems are part of yourself and which are part of your environment, and literally running away from your problems is a way to figure it out.

Things like chronic, terminal illnesses and a mental disorder are part of yourself, and it isn't exactly hard to figure that out. Some other things may not necessarily be a part of yourself, but may be just as inescapable due to limitations on what one can do by themselves.

Even if you do have a mental illness, your environment can exacerbate it, and a change of scenery can help. That's part of the idea behind residential rehab programs.

A change of scenery may help, it may not. It may make things worse. If, after all this, your situation has not improved, should you run away anew?

[Gidgetisms]

That's like saying someone can get over cancer just by exercising will power. It is exactly this kind of attitude that makes it so hard to get help, this pervasive "get over it" idea. It is not something you can just "get over".

Beat you to it

I saw that. The point still stands. I've encountered this sentiment so much, and it just pushes people underground, it's not helpful. It's not insightful. It's trivializing

[East Ormania]

If your almighty God is going to put people into positions where they feel that life is so bleak and hopeless that the best thing they could do is end it, and then he says it's wrong, then he's a hypocritical asshole who deserves to go and die in a hole.

I know this post is getting old by now, and replying to this is almost grave-digging, but i felt the need to do so.
According to my religion, if you're suffering now, it's because you've done somethig bad to anothe being on the same degree on another past life.
Therefore you must go through it as a "mission" in order to redeem yourself, and suiciding will stop that "mission" from being completed, and you will be punished for doing so.
Also, usually people don't remember about their past lifes because repairing the damage you have done without knowing what you have done is something that makes a spirit happy in the "afterlife".


Also this post serves as a reinforcement to my previously stated position on this matter: It doesn't pay-off.

[IshCong]

You don't understand depression at all do you.

No, I understand depression. There has been a time in my life where I am depressed, but instead of letting it envelope me, I choose the harder choice. I continue my life by overcoming depression. It's called will power and I urge everyone to develop it to it's fullest extent.

Depression is not just a state of mind, it also refers to a chemical imbalance in the brain (a disease), and it can't be overcome by willpower.

[Ostroeuropa]

If your almighty God is going to put people into positions where they feel that life is so bleak and hopeless that the best thing they could do is end it, and then he says it's wrong, then he's a hypocritical asshole who deserves to go and die in a hole.

I know this post is getting old by now, and replying to this is almost grave-digging, but i felt the need to do so.
According to my religion, if you're suffering now, it's because you've done somethig bad to anothe being on the same degree on another past life.
Therefore you must go through it as a "mission" in order to redeem yourself, and suiciding will stop that "mission" from being completed, and you will be punished for doing so.
Also, usually people don't remember about their past lifes because repairing the damage you have done without knowing what you have done is something that makes a spirit happy in the "afterlife".


Also this post serves as a reinforcement to my previously stated position on this matter: It doesn't pay-off.

How terribly convinient for you.

[Western Coalition (Ancient)]

Suicide as an idea is the apex of cowardice. You are basically stating you don't have what it takes to live your life no matter what it throws at you. This tells me you don't think very much of life itself, so you'd rather give up then hustle through it.

This said, I feel no sympathy for those who commit suicide. For there is no circumstance to horrible to endure for you to decided to end your life. When you do, you're simply copping out, and this to me is the poorest of excuses.

Yes, because being terminally ill and in so much pain that medicating you enough to dull that pain would kill you is a sign of weakness, and not wanting to live for another year in some of the most intense, chronic pain you can imagine is 'cowardice'. Because being mentally ill and being unable to make rational judgments is 'cowardice'. Because suffering repeated psychological traumas and having every attempt to find help met with accusations of 'cowardice' or nonchalant 'man up's is weakness. Because being ostracized by society is to be weak. Because contemplating something for weeks/months/years is just giving up on the spur of the moment rather than being totally broken in mind and body.

The possibility exists in all of us. Given the right pressures, the right events, the right body/illnesses, anyone could find themselves willing to commit suicide. You are not superior to those people just because you happened to have a better life, nor should you look down upon them and make their lives worse rather than dealing with them frankly and honestly and realizing they are Human beings who need to be dealt with as peers and given help if help is possible.

Your judgment that there is no circumstance too horrible to legitimize suicide is not some grand inherent truth, its a subjective judgment of your own making and not one that applies to the other 7 billion souls on this Earth.

I never stated it as some "grand inherent truth." Of course neither is yours. It is my opinion, and one I hold dear. I can see you disagree and don't like my opinion.

However I firmly believe that if a person is so willing to to give up hope, and rush for the euthanasia button, the razor blade or the rope then why should you enjoy life in it's ups if you can't hack it in the downs? Is life such a worthless thing that we should be so quick to discard it when it no longer pleases us? Never quit, never, never, never, never. Human will power is one of the greatest sources of motivation and determination. If you use this,then I believe there is nothing insurmountable in this life.

[Ostroeuropa]

Yes, because being terminally ill and in so much pain that medicating you enough to dull that pain would kill you is a sign of weakness, and not wanting to live for another year in some of the most intense, chronic pain you can imagine is 'cowardice'. Because being mentally ill and being unable to make rational judgments is 'cowardice'. Because suffering repeated psychological traumas and having every attempt to find help met with accusations of 'cowardice' or nonchalant 'man up's is weakness. Because being ostracized by society is to be weak. Because contemplating something for weeks/months/years is just giving up on the spur of the moment rather than being totally broken in mind and body.

The possibility exists in all of us. Given the right pressures, the right events, the right body/illnesses, anyone could find themselves willing to commit suicide. You are not superior to those people just because you happened to have a better life, nor should you look down upon them and make their lives worse rather than dealing with them frankly and honestly and realizing they are Human beings who need to be dealt with as peers and given help if help is possible.

Your judgment that there is no circumstance too horrible to legitimize suicide is not some grand inherent truth, its a subjective judgment of your own making and not one that applies to the other 7 billion souls on this Earth.

I never stated it as some "grand inherent truth." Of course neither is yours. It is my opinion, and one I hold dear. I can see you disagree and don't like my opinion, but this does not concern me.

However I firmly believe that if a person is so willing to to give up hope, and rush for the euthanasia button, the razor blade or the rope then why should you enjoy life in it's ups if you can't hack it in the downs? Never quit, never, never, never, never. Human will power is one of the greatest sources of motivation and determination. If you use this,then I believe there is nothing insurmountable in this life.

Ignorance of medical facts and claiming it's your belief doesn't give your opinion equal weight.
Your opinion is worth less than ours, because we are actually informed and in possession of the facts, and this is a medical issue.
(That's kind of how medicine works see, your opinion isn't worth shit, your doctors is.)
Go away and read a psychology textbook, then maybe we might listen to your opinion on how diseases can be overcome by prayer.
sorry, willpower.