Fascist rise in europe

[Camelza]

How does SYRIZA offer hope?

Democratic Socialism.

+eurocommunism
+environmentalism
+female & LGTB rights
+further democratisation of the representation system
+socialism with a human face
+activism

[Camelza]

Why should the west feed africa anyway?Shouldnt they have built economies by now?

You'd let people starve because they should have better a better economy in their country?

I would be surprised if he did support feeding Africans,he supports a fucking Nazi party.

[Camelza]

+eurocommunism
+environmentalism
+female & LGTB rights
+further democratisation of the representation system
+socialism with a human face
+activism

Interestingly, I can't see any of these things supported by those left-wing parties bring in here. They're conservative, fiercely against female and homosexual rights, many are against democracy, and activism for them means taking to the streets when their prophet is insulted.

Syriza does support all of the above in written form,there are even caucuses inside the party that advocate them officially ...if you aren't informed don't generalise.

[Camelza]

Syriza does support all of the above in written form,there are even caucuses inside the party that advocate them officially ...if you aren't informed don't generalise.

Talking about muslims here, not Syriza.

Oh,I see ..sorry.

[Camelza]

No, but you are currently letting people starve. Because every time you send aid, more people won't die, meaning they're able to have children, meaning the next famine will be exactly the same problem only on a larger scale. Edit: as I said, Africa's population based on current output should be less than 500 million, but it's well over 1 billion now.

But if we don't send aid, people will die, and dead men build no sustainable nations.

We shouldn't give them aid,instead we should teach those people how to produce food/dig wells/read by themselfes in order not to be depended on aid programs and foreigners
However,to do that we have first to get rid of the multinational companies taking advantage of the corrupt African governments ..which is kinda hard.

[Camelza]

We shouldn't give them aid,instead we should teach those people how to produce food/dig wells/read by themselfes in order not to be depended on aid programs and foreigners
However,to do that we have first to get rid of the multinational companies taking advantage of the corrupt African governments ..which is kinda hard.

Give a man a fish he eats for a night.
Teach a man to fish he eats for life.

This is something that actually applies. And what's happened is that the net has broken and the aid isn't enough to repair it so the net just gets worse and the catch just gets smaller...

Pretty much this,if something isn't done about it in the next 10 years ,either by Africans themselfes or Westerners,even more people are going to die & suffer.

[Camelza]

We shouldn't give them aid,instead we should teach those people how to produce food/dig wells/read by themselfes in order not to be depended on aid programs and foreigners

For that to be of any benefit they have to live long enough to learn how to do that and to actually do it.

Well yes,of course,I just wanted to add that aid alone wouldn't solve the problem ...I still support any kind of voluntary aid mission to Africa as well as anywhere else in the world.

[Camelza]

denyinig that humanoty cames from africa it's like denying that 1+1=2

I don't care if your nation it's orthodox or not.

by the way, you owe me some euros as I rescued your economy.

No you didnt my economy and future are still fucked up cause of the E.U . Also you said we are Catholic fundomentalists when we are not even catholic (or extremely religious to that) also lets say we did came from africa,doesnt that mean we are a superior evolved species?

[Camelza]

No, they're f*cked up because your country fudged its numbers to join the Euro. It's no-one's fault but Greece's.

We actually never voted on entering EU,the Euro or NATO ...Simitis is to blame,we didn't know the numbers were forged and most of us over here prefered Drachma over euro.

Oh God, don't you understand how evolution works? This might sound strange to you, but we are actually the same species as black people, with one or two minor variations in melanin pigmentation and bone structure.

He propably thinks white people are from Mars or something.

[Camelza]

We actually never voted on entering EU,the Euro or NATO ...Simitis is to blame,we didn't know the numbers were forged and most of us over here prefered Drachma over euro.

Then blame Simitis, not the EU. It's the people's responsibility to know what their leader is doing. Even more so in a democracy where you can actually choose your leader.

I didn't blame the EU,I'm not Melas and our democrasy is fucked up big time.

[Camelza]

We actually never voted on entering EU,the Euro or NATO ...Simitis is to blame,we didn't know the numbers were forged and most of us over here prefered Drachma over euro.

Simitis didn't bring Greece into the EU, Papandreou did in 1981. But it is true, Greece was so completely unprepared to join the eurozone it should've just kept the drachma.

Actually it was Rallis and Karamanlis' efforts,Papandreou was a fierce radical socialist opposing both NATO & the EEC back in the day ..he simply took over exactly when we entered the EU ..this shows also that most Greeks would have refused to join EU in 1981,if there was a vote on the subject.

I refered to Simitis because he was the one that forged the numbers and brought the Euro.

[Camelza]

I didn't blame the EU,I'm not Melas and our democrasy is fucked up big time.

The argument was that the EU was blamed, then someone blamed Greece, then you the leader. I put it back to the people, because democatic system *shrugs*

Either way, Greece's economy isn't doing well

Exactly,but eradicating welfare,reducing the already low living standarts & removing labour rights won't solve the problem. ..quite the opposite.

[Camelza]

Actually it was Rallis and Karamanlis' efforts,Papandreou was a fierce radical socialist opposing both NATO & the EEC back in the day ..he simply took over exactly when we entered the EU ..this shows also that most Greeks would have refused to join EU in 1981,if there was a vote on the subject.

I refered to Simitis because he was the one that forged the numbers and brought the Euro.

Yeah. I dunno what Greeks would've objected to - after all, Greece was the first Mediterranean country to join the EEC after they overthrew their dictatorship. Papandreou's anti-NATO and EEC rhetoric was just electoral rhetoric, considering he didn't leave NATO or cancel the EEC membership in office.

They weren't just rhetoric they were key-points of his Panhellenic Socialist Movement's governmental program along with entering the Non-Aligned movement,However,Papandreou claimed that he couldn't impose them during that time because the President was Karamanlis himself which is pretty much a lie since the President of Greece has the same powers with the President of the Maltese Butterfly Collectors Guild.Anyway he calmed the people with some social reforms and a somewhat mixed economy and by making meeting with other coldwar non-allied politicians like Ghandi Arafat and Palme.

[Camelza]

Your Daily Mail is showing, please get it under control. Also, the EU helps countries reduce their poverty level, so please get it right.

I agree with everything else you say but the EU in economic matters cares mostly for the bankers and multinational company owners,not the people.

[Camelza]

Am I the only one who saw facism in Greece coming?

oh,I forgot to post that in the "Fascism in Greece" thread

latest polls:
SYRIZA - 29% (my beloved socioliberal left-wingers)
New Democrasy - 22,5% (the most Pro-EU party since 1974,centre-right)
PASOK - 13,5% (our corrupt socialist rascals)
ANEL - 12,3% (mad russophilic conservatives)
KKE - 8% (CPSU - Greek speaking version)
Golden Dawn - 7,5% (you know 'em)
DIMAR - 4% (boring social democrats)
LAOS - 3,2% (the equivalent of the Republicans in Greece)

So,it seems Fascism in Greece is just a trend that will go eventualy.

[Camelza]

I agree with everything else you say but the EU in economic matters cares mostly for the bankers and multinational company owners,not the people.

Yes, but there's a different thread for the EU's fuckups.

The EU definitely needs to stop doing shit like the CAP and the blatantly biased ECB. But it's not a surprise that the EU would be biased towards corporations and bankers instead of people. It's something we see at most levels of the state as a trend since the 1980s.

Well this has to change someday soon.

[Camelza]

Yes, I like hyperbole in my insults. I know it's bad for me.

Haha... and you expect to be taken seriously..

Debates aren't supposed to be about 'hyperbole' or 'insults' their supposed to be rational disagreements argued in a respectful and at least semi-educated manner.

"hyperbole and insults" are for 4 year olds arguing over whose turn it is to press the elevator button.

Well,you're not helping by calling him a 4-year-old.

[Camelza]

ETA disolved 2 months ago

Quite a similar thing happened with Northern Ireland. I'm guessing that the EEC didn't intervene in either at first because of the struggle between neofunctionalists and intergovernmentalists, because Ireland only joined in 1973 and Spain in 1986, and post-Maastricht because the EU had no clear remit on how to deal with terrorism.

IRA was a liberation army at it's height not a petty terrorist group like ETA ...and many people support it's political wing,Sinn Fein,even today.Actually,they're the second most powerful bunch in the Northern Irish Assembly.

[Camelza]

yes, but both were terrible.

Not denying that.

Bitch please,IRA tried to kill Thatcher & Armed Unionists.In a war between nations you always try to kill your enemy and so did both sides
It is terrible but as a whole not only because of IRA.

..they also had many female members and I trust female insticts. ...except Thatcher's,she is no woman,she's the devil.

[Camelza]

Bitch please,IRA tried to kill Thatcher & Armed Unionists.In a war between nations you always try to kill your enemy and so did both sides
It is terrible but as a whole not only because of IRA.

..they also had many female members and I trust female insticts. ...except Thatcher's,she is no woman,she's the devil.

Dude, I know that. "Thatcher" is a swear word for me, but I'm saying that you can't say the IRA is one of the reasons the UK is a democracy.

Oh,well,since you put it that way,I agree.

[Ceannairceach]

Reactionary politics rise when there is a crisis for the reactionary factions to exploit. Fascism, and especially the abhorrent anti-immigrant, oppressive form, is just one of these groups to make a push, somewhat successfully.

[Ceannairceach]

Reactionary politics rise when there is a crisis for the reactionary factions to exploit. Fascism, and especially the abhorrent anti-immigrant, oppressive form, is just one of these groups to make a push, somewhat successfully.

Though usually they can't win an election outright, so the fears of a new Nazi state are likely unfounded.

Indeed. But their rise tend to correlate with a rise in xenophobic violence and a desire to oust those who are not of the native ethnicity from the nation, which is just as bad as a political victory.

[Ceannairceach]

Bitch please,IRA tried to kill Thatcher & Armed Unionists.In a war between nations you always try to kill your enemy and so did both sides
It is terrible but as a whole not only because of IRA.

..they also had many female members and I trust female insticts. ...except Thatcher's,she is no woman,she's the devil.

see? tried, and IRA hasn't changed your country's history, unlike ETA

The original Irish Republican Army, from the 1910's, managed to directly influence the creation of the Irish Free State. The following Irish Republican Army was more or less responsible for the Troubles between Ireland and the United Kingdom. The modern incantations of the IRA, be it Provisional, Real, Continuity, or this new form that is claiming to be the "mainstream" continues to strike fear into the hearts of common people in Northern Ireland.

I'd say that's changed the country's future, and therefore its history.

[Ceannairceach]

hitler collapsed it more

Hitler built it...

Ha! Learn a bit about German history and economics. Hitler's Germany built its economy on war, plunder and forced labor. Were it not for their massive war machine, they would have remained in obscure poverty. And it was proven, too, for when the Germans failed to expand their economy imploded, as the money they pilfered from European banks slowly seeped away and the labor dried up due to their completely lacking economy built as a stage show rather than a sturdy house.

The modern German economy, conversely, is built upon free enterprise and mutually beneficial agreements with the European states and the rest of the world in the interest of self and global promotion.

In short, Hitler's economy = hatred, modern Germany economy = friendship.

[Ceannairceach]

it's also widely accepted that Hitler's policies were nothing more than a quick fix, and had World War 2 not started, then the German economy would've collapsed.

This is speculation. Though I hate Hitler, he did get Germany out of recession and had he refrained from starting WWII or committing genocide he might've been remembered as a German FDR who got the country out of a horrible depression.

No. Not even close. The German economy under Hiter's Nazi regime was built upon the war industry. Not even the arms industry, which though overly specialized might have done somewhat well, the war industry. Hitler's Germany required large scale war to support its economy, as proven due to his pilfering of foreign banks and the German collapse when they started losing the war.