Fascist rise in europe

[Zaras]

What makes you think I am a white supremisist?

Everything you write.

I also dislike albanians,and yes it is the white,greek,goverment fault for betraying us.And yes the austority is a crime against our people brought by the same goverment who bringed the Paki''stanis'' in (happy?)

I rest my case. You supremacist.

[Zaras]

As an independent nation, doesn't Greece have the right to set its own immigration policy? What if they decide they don't want anymore immigrants? Isn't that okay?

No it isn't.

Furthermore, while racism is deplorable, the idea that Greece is, well, Greek, only seems to follow logically, and they should have a right to refuse immigrants on that basis, shouldn't they?

No. The idea that a nation and a state should be synonymous is fucking idiotic. Greece is Greece. If they feel that they need to kick people out to stay Greece, well, it just makes them weak and insecure. Much like how Israel resorts to blatant racism to preserve its Jewish majority.

they have the right don't they?

No. Absolutely not.

[Zaras]

Perhaps if you Greeks paid your damn taxes and didn't make poor economic decisions, Greece wouldn't be a shithole people only visit for the ancient ruins.

The EU fucked up worse by letting Greece into the euro despite being blatantly not ready for it.

[Zaras]

:palm: Do you have any idea about economics at all?

Yes. More than Melas.

You see, when thousands of immigrants flood into Europe, it will inflate the labour market, and therefore institutes a downward pressure on the wages of the workers.

You see, if we had, oh, I don't know, strong labour unions, a still-existent manufacturing sector not shipped off through outsourcing, and a state wasn't completely corporatized and rotted from the inside, maybe this wouldn't be a problem.

Now, I oppose and even hate racism, idiotic Social Darwinism and anti-Semitism and I think that Nazis are idiots who have no idea how to fix problems, but I do believe that every European nation should hold a referendum on the issue of immigration to see if the people are ok with mass-immigration (immigration as we have now, not the immigration that has been going on for centuries of people who have already mostly integrated into our society), since the people weren't really given as much a choice regarding immigration.

No. The people are rightfully given no choice here: they would vote for their worst instincts, or eat up populist rubbish in too large numbers. Things like this can't be put up to a referendum. Otherwise you get spectacles like the California Supreme Court being forced to slap the entire electorate in the face for being stupid and throw Prop. 8 in the rubbish.

[Zaras]

The EU fucked up worse by letting Greece into the euro despite being blatantly not ready for it.

I suppose that's true, yes. But didn't the Greeks cover up a lot of their problems to get in?

That they did.

[Zaras]

You see, if we had, oh, I don't know, strong labour unions, a still-existent manufacturing sector not shipped off through outsourcing, and a state wasn't completely corporatized and rotted from the inside, maybe this wouldn't be a problem.

If we had strong labour unions, my life would be a heaven, but the problem is the big corporations, money-grabbing mongrels, and other money launderers of the big banks and corporations that are against the strong labour unions and therefore inevitably also justice, sadly.

Yeah. Downward wage pressure wouldn't exist if the state could be bothered to actually enforce minimum wage regulations.

[Zaras]

No. The people are rightfully given no choice here: they would vote for their worst instincts, or eat up populist rubbish in too large numbers. Things like this can't be put up to a referendum. Otherwise you get spectacles like the California Supreme Court being forced to slap the entire electorate in the face for being stupid and throw Prop. 8 in the rubbish.

So you believe people should only be given a choice of how they want to live as long as it conforms to your world view? Who gets to decide what instincts are the worst?

No, I believe that you shouldn't put blatant fucking hatred up to a vote. You don't put gay rights up to a vote, you don't put civil rights up to a vote, you don't put immigration up to a vote. These are not things that are negotiable.

[Zaras]

Then you Greeks are either being lazy or racist, because using a 'general term' that is also the name for a specific nationality is stupid, racist, and ridiculous.

I would very much appreciate if you could refrain from emulating Melas' racist and generalizing mindset, since he is neither representative of the Greek population nor the only Greek user present.

Unfortunately, the other Greek user who could be present here would be CTALNH...

[Zaras]

I would very much appreciate if you could refrain from emulating Melas' racist and generalizing mindset, since he is neither representative of the Greek population nor the only Greek user present.

Not sure if thats a kind of an insult but I 2nd that motion

It's an insult. Directed at you.

[Zaras]

Civil rights are not up for debate amongst the populace. You don't get to increase your wealth and prestige at the expense of others. That is mob rule and that is wrong.

I'm saying the individual has a fundamental human right to discriminate against or associate with any other individual or group as long as he peacefully respects the right of others to do the same.

No.

There is no right to discrmination.

End of story.

[Zaras]

I said this before...the individual has a fundamental human right to discriminate against or associate with any other individual or group as long as he peacefully respects the right of others to do the same.

I say it again.

There. Is. No. Such. Thing. As. A. Right. To. Discriminate.

End of fucking story.

[Zaras]

I'm just making a joke, dear. I'm fully aware that the majority of the Greek populace aren't lazy, racist, or stupid, nor do they support Melas's bigoted, ridiculous views.

In this context, I'm referring to the hypothetical Greeks he keeps bringing up. His 'Greeks support. . .' leads me to a particular conclusion. However, I do not mean to insinuate that I believe all Greeks are lazy or racist.

Just the imaginary Greeks in Melas's mind.

You mean the imaginary half a million greeks that voted for golden dawn??

They're either stupid or bigoted, and I damn well expect they'll be humilliated for the rest of their lives for it.

[Zaras]

No.

There is no right to discrmination.

End of story.

say you were a photographer and a group of homophobes wanted to hire you for a "gay bash" party. Do you have the right to refuse to work for them?

Don't try to end run me, you damn well know the answer is yes. You were advocating the right of voters to submit to their worst mob rule instincts and vote in a referendum to bash immigrants. There is no right to that.

Discrimination is something that can never be allowed at a level beyond the individual. There is no right to it.

[Zaras]

Source?

http://www.protagon.gr/?i=protagon.el.article&id=17981

You just cited more Nazis again.

[Zaras]

Zar, chill with the bold caps bro.

Done. I figured I might as well bold caps the second sentence as well since it was missed the first time around.

I agree, there is a difference between simply having an opinion and actually acting out one's bigotry.

The latter is what a "right to discriminate" would imply.

[Zaras]

You just cited more Nazis again.

Protagon.gr and pontiki are well-known Greek news sites. However if you look at the actual polls, Golden Dawn 10,5 % of the vote, which really isn't that much.

My bad. I don't actually know Greek, and given Melas' record, I just figured he ass-pulled again.

At least SYRIZA is in the lead now, right?

[Zaras]

Ι am not talking about a majority or a minority I am talking about individuals lots of them,I dont claim that everyone loves golden dawn,I have a classmate thats a member of the Communist Youth of greece,my father voted for siriza and my siter is an anarchist who went to vote just for the experience and will never do it again,she even threatened me she will never speak to me again if I join the party,lolz

Melas, both your classmate and your family are cooler and have much more integrity, common sense and not bigotry than you.

[Zaras]

Don't try to end run me, you damn well know the answer is yes. You were advocating the right of voters to submit to their worst mob rule instincts and vote in a referendum to bash immigrants. There is no right to that.

Discrimination is something that can never be allowed at a level beyond the individual. There is no right to it.

No, I'm advocating the right of the individual to decide for themselves what is best for themselves irrespective of what anyone else believes. Your ideas may be different from mine and they may not (you might be supprised) but true tolerance is honoring and respecting the peaceful choices of others.

Yes, I agree on that. But giving people a referendum on immigration is not true tolerance, or a peaceful choice.

Tolerance can never be taken so far as to tolerate, excuse and defend intolerance.

[Zaras]

It's perfectly understandable that the present European Crisis would cause a rise in right-wing ideologies. People need an alternative to the bureacratic and conformist EU, which constricts democracy and harms sovereignty and self determination throughout Europe.

Oh, this "EU is undemocratic" shit again? Take it to the EU thread, please.

[Zaras]

My bad. I don't actually know Greek, and given Melas' record, I just figured he ass-pulled again.

At least SYRIZA is in the lead now, right?

New Democracy leads by one percent.

Damn!

[Zaras]

Melas, both your classmate and your family are cooler and have much more integrity, common sense and not bigotry than you.

If by cooler you mean threating to call the fellow 'youth' to beat me up cause I said his party is a rotten joke of communism then yeah,he is so cool.

If you act the same way in public as you do on this thread, I wouldn't be surprised...

[Zaras]

I don't see why some people have aneurysms over flag burning. It's just a flag!

For many people especially in eastern europe it is not just a flag. It symbolise something and you dont have to be some kind nationalist to react in such way. Thoose who were burninged is also just not a flag hence they would burn it.

That just makes them silly. It's a symbol! Why lose shit over a symbol?

[Zaras]

Damn!

1 is the one who sold us to the EU and ruined our nation for decades and the other one is an anti-hellinic mess.Not sure which one is worse

SYRIZA is not anti-Greek.

[Zaras]

If you act the same way in public as you do on this thread, I wouldn't be surprised...

No I dont,he was giving away papers of his party in school and told him his party sucks and its not true communism,so I am the fascist

Considering you've called immigrants "subhuman" and advocated ethnic cleansing, yes you are.

[Zaras]

Considering you've called immigrants "subhuman" and advocated ethnic cleansing, yes you are.

I didnt call immigrants subhumans,I called the people on the video subhumans,watch it first then talk,it doesnt even have commentrary,its proof that this monkies are a threat to our nation and disproves you that they actually help the economy.THEY RAPED WOMEN ON NEW YEAR'S EVE FOR GODS SAKE

Now you called them monkeys too. Seriously. Rape is a monstrous crime, but prove to me you're not just singling them out because they're immigrants. I haven't seen you condemning Greeks who commit crime.