Fascist rise in europe

[Valishev]

They must be crushed. all of them!

All Facists will be killed!
Все фашисты будут убиты!

[Vandahar]

So many generalizations here. Even after conceding that there are exceptions, you cannot simply say immigrants are like this, Pakistani's do that, Albanians are like this. So some Pakistani's did a bad thing (allegedly). Congratulations. Greeks do to. In fact, have you considered the fact that your perception of immigrants in Greece is so negative only because you want them to be someone to blame?

Immigrants are not the source of Greece's problems. The catastrophic failure of the Greek economy is due to partisan politics and gross mismanagement. And even if you are so desperate to have someone other than the Greeks themselves to blame, what are you going to do about it? Send them all packing? The way things are going in Greece they will soon by choice be leaving by en masse anyway.

This is all that fascism is, shouting and marching, making a big noise and not offering a rational solution.

[Vandahar]

So many generalizations here. Even after conceding that there are exceptions, you cannot simply say immigrants are like this, Pakistani's do that, Albanians are like this. So some Pakistani's did a bad thing (allegedly). Congratulations. Greeks do to. In fact, have you considered the fact that your perception of immigrants in Greece is so negative only because you want them to be someone to blame?

Immigrants are not the source of Greece's problems. The catastrophic failure of the Greek economy is due to partisan politics and gross mismanagement. And even if you are so desperate to have someone other than the Greeks themselves to blame, what are you going to do about it? Send them all packing? The way things are going in Greece they will soon by choice be leaving by en masse anyway.

This is all that fascism is, shouting and marching, making a big noise and not offering a rational solution.

I actually stood for Immigrants in this discussion you must be directing this to someone else.

Yeah sorry, I should have clarified that I was talking to Melos.

[Vestr-Norig]

It's the politicians of Europe and the EU's own damn fault. It is they who ignore the will of the people and their own culture, and adopt ideas of multiculturalism, which does not belong to Europe nor any other nation. I won't say I sypathize with the fascist, but Europe's ultra-liberal politicians has yet to see that it is theirs fault, not the people's, that far right-wing parties is rising.

[Vistulange]

Fascists tend to claim that they have all the 'answers' when the economy has crumbled and the people are unsatisfied. However, when they do come to power, they tend to be racist, militarist and xenophobic. For real examples, see the National Socialists of Nazi Germany and the Fascist party of the Mussolini Italy. For fictitious examples, see the Norsefire party from V For Vendetta.

My own personal thoughts? Fascism is one of the most stupid ideologies ever created, in my personal opinion. Please correct me, but at least communism and capitalism offer some sort of an utopian ideal to work and strive for, while all fascism offers is...a superior race, fighting and killing and conquering, eventually ruling the world or a specific area with a single, master race.

[Vistulange]

Fascists tend to claim that they have all the 'answers' when the economy has crumbled and the people are unsatisfied.

Pretty much any political party ever has done that.

Of course, but whenever I watch a fascist rally - historic or present - they tend to strike me as having the answers to these mystery questions which aren't even relevant. Just my personal thoughts, though.

Fascists tend to claim that they have all the 'answers' when the economy has crumbled and the people are unsatisfied. However, when they do come to power, they tend to be racist, militarist and xenophobic. For real examples, see the National Socialists of Nazi Germany and the Fascist party of the Mussolini Italy. For fictitious examples, see the Norsefire party from V For Vendetta.

My own personal thoughts? Fascism is one of the most stupid ideologies ever created, in my personal opinion. Please correct me, but at least communism and capitalism offer some sort of an utopian ideal to work and strive for, while all fascism offers is...a superior race, fighting and killing and conquering, eventually ruling the world or a specific area with a single, master race.

Fascism dosn't say anything about a master race or even a superior race

Nazism does however

Alright, so throw out the "fascism equals racism" argument. You still have the militarism argument to debunk, unless you truly believe that arming up your whole country is a good thing.

Fascists tend to claim that they have all the 'answers' when the economy has crumbled and the people are unsatisfied. However, when they do come to power, they tend to be racist, militarist and xenophobic. For real examples, see the National Socialists of Nazi Germany and the Fascist party of the Mussolini Italy. For fictitious examples, see the Norsefire party from V For Vendetta.

My own personal thoughts? Fascism is one of the most stupid ideologies ever created, in my personal opinion. Please correct me, but at least communism and capitalism offer some sort of an utopian ideal to work and strive for, while all fascism offers is...a superior race, fighting and killing and conquering, eventually ruling the world or a specific area with a single, master race.

Thats not fascism... also fascism is an ideology while capitalism is an economic plan which fascism tends to use

You are missing the point. What I mean to say is that both those economic plans offer a better world when they are fully accomplished and have reached their final state. Fascism offers nothing in that regard, as far as I know. I personally have no idea how an autocratic or totalitarian country - which quite tends to be the end result of fascism - could have a fully functioning capitalist economy, seeing the basis of capitalism is the free market. A communist fascist state is even more unlikely, again, in my personal opinion.

[Vistulange]

I don't really like fascism, but it's still better than most far-left ideologies. Nevertheless, I really hope that fascist parties don't gain any power in any European country; extremism is always bad.

There's one exception though, Greece: I disagree with almost everything Golden Dawn stands for, I like them since they act as a kind of counterweight and keep KKE and SYRIZA in line. When you've got batshit crazy far-left stalinists in the Hellenic Parliament, some kind of counterweight is necessary. As long as they don't go above 15% in the national polls, they're fine.

Care to elaborate on why fascism is better than any far-left ideology - other than your inherent hatred and paranoia of the left..?

[Vistulange]

I do believe in militarism, so in that case im fine with it.

Militarism is pretty vague at times as well, but it's not like rascism in terms of "being bad"

many nations resort to militarism, even leftist states when it suits them( France sure loved to jump on helping bomb libya

Militarism is not declaring war for your national aims. Militarism is actively working your country towards warfare, i.e Nazi Germany or Mussolini's Italy.

[Vistulange]

Care to elaborate on why fascism is better than any far-left ideology - other than your inherent hatred and paranoia of the left..?

Fascism maintains at least some degree of economic freedom, while marxism-leninism strips away all rights. I also find fascism more moral, as all forms of communism are basically centered around stealing.

So you're okay with having no political rights, as long as you can have your factory as your own, and steal the workers' money from them and put it all in your own pocket? And why is communism stealing? People produce, and people eat. If you don't produce, you don't eat.

Economic freedom is not necessary when the concept of currency has been abolished. You produce what you need.

[Vistulange]

Militarism is not declaring war for your national aims. Militarism is actively working your country towards warfare, i.e Nazi Germany or Mussolini's Italy.

so that's not always a bad thing

"working towards warefare" dosn't mean " bomb the fuck out of everybody"

it could simply mean modernizing a military, building up the military or in fact as you said fighting war, but war isn't always a bad thing, it depends on context.

And how do you intend to sustain the immense military you've built up?

Also, tell me the justifications you have for war.

[Vistulange]

And how do you intend to sustain the immense military you've built up? without either taxing the shit out of your people...or using it?

idk im not an expert, but you could use it for pressuring other country's to do what you want them to do, influencing them.

the US does it all the time and we have had great success with it, our carriers are a great example of using our military to greatly influence a region.

So it's okay to tread on other nations' national sovereignty because you can? If you believe that, sir, then you need to think about some things, in my opinion.

EDIT: Edited my own quoted part to update it to the post's current form to avoid confusion.

[Vistulange]

I don't really like fascism, but it's still better than most far-left ideologies. Nevertheless, I really hope that fascist parties don't gain any power in any European country; extremism is always bad.

There's one exception though, Greece: I disagree with almost everything Golden Dawn stands for, I like them since they act as a kind of counterweight and keep KKE and SYRIZA in line. When you've got batshit crazy far-left stalinists in the Hellenic Parliament, some kind of counterweight is necessary. As long as they don't go above 15% in the national polls, they're fine.

Fascism and Nazism are much much worse than the far-left, Hippo. They both rely on violence and oppression. And extreme homophobia.

Whilst I view communism as too extreme, I do not have a problem with socialism after all.

The vow of Hippostania is "leftists are evil". It could be a society where it's Thomas More's Utopia, and Hippo will still say "fascism" because Utopia is quite leftist, when you look at it.

[Vistulange]

Melas, seriously. You've been spouting rhetoric without anything real to back it up for the last eight pages or so. Seriously, either back it up with an English, international source, or kindly admit you are wrong, and stop wasting all our time.

[Voegen]

There was a riot near where I am from today and it was between a neo-Nazi faction and Muslims over a mosque being built… Fascists are slowly becoming more prominent but not on a major scale. Also, that is what I heard. It may not have been directly Nazi's but other people.

[Wesibaden]

Idk

It's widley accepted that Hitler and the NAZI party did fix the German economy

it's also widely accepted that Hitler's policies were nothing more than a quick fix, and had World War 2 not started, then the German economy would've collapsed.

Not really no sign of the German economy would have collapsed

[Wesibaden]

Not really no sign of the German economy would have collapsed

hitler collapsed it more

Not really before Hitler came in the Economy was shit Hitler improved it

[Yankee Empire]

I hope Fascism is on the Rise, rather than Nazism or Neo Fascsim (which is bascially Nazism).

I myself am in the process on assembling a politcal ideology that caries over many Fascist Principles but cuts out those few key failings in it.

[Yankee Empire]

Fascists tend to claim that they have all the 'answers' when the economy has crumbled and the people are unsatisfied.

Pretty much any political party ever has done that.

[Yankee Empire]

Fascists tend to claim that they have all the 'answers' when the economy has crumbled and the people are unsatisfied. However, when they do come to power, they tend to be racist, militarist and xenophobic. For real examples, see the National Socialists of Nazi Germany and the Fascist party of the Mussolini Italy. For fictitious examples, see the Norsefire party from V For Vendetta.

My own personal thoughts? Fascism is one of the most stupid ideologies ever created, in my personal opinion. Please correct me, but at least communism and capitalism offer some sort of an utopian ideal to work and strive for, while all fascism offers is...a superior race, fighting and killing and conquering, eventually ruling the world or a specific area with a single, master race.

Thats not fascism... also fascism is an ideology while capitalism is an economic plan which fascism tends to use

Yeah but it mixes it with State control either being State Capitalism or Corporitism.

Also they do offer a Utopian ideal which is part ofthe problem.

[Yorkopolis]

Care to elaborate on why fascism is better than any far-left ideology - other than your inherent hatred and paranoia of the left..?

Fascism maintains at least some degree of economic freedom, while marxism-leninism strips away all rights. I also find fascism more moral, as all forms of communism are basically centered around stealing.

Yes Marxism-Leninism strips away all economic freedoms, but it doesn't fall under "most far-left ideologies", but just one. Ever heard of market socialism? Hell. Syndicalism, where ownership is public, also has economic freedoms. Fascism, on the other hand, promotes big businessmen and exterminates the smaller ones, something which I don't exactly count as economic freedom for the lower classes. Communism? Oh wait, let me correct you; Marxism-Leninism, which is not Communism.

And no, communism is not centered around stealing, it is centered around a classless, stateless and moneyless society. Does that sound anything like the Soviet Union? I thought not. And the economics of communism are not centered around stealing, but rather around public ownership of the means of production and consumption according to need and production according to ability.

And I don't fear Fascism that much. It's not in the Netherlands as prominently as wacko Neo-Nazism is in Germany, thankfully.

[Yorkopolis]

Greeks cant find a job,yet throwing out immigrants and free job slots (even thought 90% of them work illegally and dont pay taxes) will lessen the unemployment

Are you dense or something? If Greeks can't find a job, THROWING OUT IMMIGRANTS WON'T HELP. THROWING OUT IMMIGRANTS WILL RUIN THE ECONOM FURTHER.

Unemployment can't be reduced by explusions and genocide.

Do you have any idea about economics at all? It seems not. You see, when thousands of immigrants flood into Europe, it will inflate the labour market, and therefore institutes a downward pressure on the wages of the workers. I get why we shouldn't have immigration stopped entirely, immigration is part of a centuries-long process that can't just be put to an abrupt halt, but we can slow it down certainly. And I know it may sound populist as fuck, but workless immigrants are given state benefits at the expenses of the host population's working class. This causes resentment within it, which in the end only benefits Fascist/right-wing demagogues that promise to restrict immigration but won't. Now, I oppose and even hate racism, idiotic Social Darwinism and anti-Semitism and I think that Nazis are idiots who have no idea how to fix problems, but I do believe that every European nation should hold a referendum on the issue of immigration to see if the people are ok with mass-immigration (immigration as we have now, not the immigration that has been going on for centuries of people who have already mostly integrated into our society), since the people weren't really given as much a choice regarding immigration.

And regarding throwing out immigrants and Greeks who can't find a job don't have anything to do with one another. Sure it's a two-sided story, one being the Greeks who don't want to work and the other being the fact that the immigrants take those places where the Greeks could work. The Greeks should get off their arses and get to work before immigrants do.

And how do you intend to sustain the immense military you've built up without either taxing the shit out of your people...or using it?

idk im not an expert, but you could use it for pressuring other country's to do what you want them to do, influencing them.

the US does it all the time and we have had great success with it, our carriers are a great example of using our military to greatly influence a region.

And that mate, is pure imperialism, which is also what the U.S. does all time. And colonialism, which is also what the U.S. does all time.

[Yorkopolis]

The EU fucked up worse by letting Greece into the euro despite being blatantly not ready for it.

I suppose that's true, yes. But didn't the Greeks cover up a lot of their problems to get in?

Yep, they did.

[Yorkopolis]

You see, if we had, oh, I don't know, strong labour unions, a still-existent manufacturing sector not shipped off through outsourcing, and a state wasn't completely corporatized and rotted from the inside, maybe this wouldn't be a problem.

If we had strong labour unions, my life would be a heaven, but the problem is the big corporations, money-grabbing mongrels, and other money launderers of the big banks and corporations that are against the strong labour unions and therefore inevitably also justice, sadly.

[Yorkopolis]

Did anyone see the video? Holly shit.3/4 of crimes are made by immigrants thats enough for me

Source.

It's no use. It'll probably just be yet another of those Neo-Nazi-sponsored websites. I don't feel arguing with him will work.

[Yorkopolis]

By the way, nationalism means honoring ones country

It's an outdated notion anyway.

That's your opinion. Not everyone subscribes to your opinion, deal with it and stop calling nationalists bigots, 'cause hey, you don't see me espousing ideas like "omg we shud totaly kill all muslems and blakkas and utha nonwhites11!11!!!" do you.

And besides, if loving your nation and fatherland is bad, then what should we love? The entire world? Oh please no. I'll tell you this, there are definitely places in this world that I definitely don't and will never love. And to be honest, every nation has the right to self-determination.

EDIT: And since when did this thread turn from a discussion about Neo-Nazi wacko's in Greece to a massive bitchfight between nationalists who don't like multiculturalism and cosmopolitanists who demonise everyone who doesn't agree with them?