Fascist rise in europe

[Orcoa]

Here's what I love. Every time we post facts, the multiculturalists in the room suddenly go quiet for a while, then pick up the discussion again like no facts whatsoever were posted. Let's see what we have proven so far. Feel free to add something.

• Two-thirds of all Moroccan men in the Netherlands, and this is a group numbering more than 100,000 for those who will try to scream bloody murder about the sample size, have been arrested at least once by the time they're 22. Similar figures exist for Afro-Caribbeans (55%) and Turks (45%).
• Non-western immigrants in both the Netherlands and Finland, two countries known to have a great welfare system and virtually no real poverty, have crime rates and unemployment rates starting several times higher than those of the native population.
• Non-western immigrants throughout Europe have higher unemployment rates and crime rates.
• There is a growing amount of islamic fundamentalists in Europe. There are unofficial and even some official shariah courts. There are also islamic rape gangs in Europe who rape white girls for 'asking for it by dressing like a whore and violating islamic norms'.
• Most of Europe's population has had it with immigration, but our governments and the European Union keep forcing it upon us.
• Adding to that, most Europeans have had it with the European Union itself.

Multiculturalism is a lie. And before our friendly Romanian - Ciprian Constantinescu, is that you? - accuses me of never having met a non-white person, I live in an area where a large part of the population consists of non-western immigrants. And I live next to a city where almost half of the population consists of non-western immigrants and their offspring, and where crime rates are astronomical.

The real reason why for that is because your kind are not worth debating with and your facts suck wieners.

Plus, Fascists like you are mostly motivated by the fear of the "other". You hate the fact that peoples you can't control or suppress are not buying your bullshit anymore.

[Orcoa]

Most of Europe's population has had it with immigration, but our governments and the European Union keep forcing it upon us.
Adding to that, most Europeans have had it with the European Union itself.

Source. The rest I had noticed you posted sometime earlier, though citing arrest rates is bullshit as you well know.

Racism and being arrested for shitty crimes (selling drugs) play a large part.

He won't give sources and shit like that. Like any other fascist, scared of the truth and wishes to impose their own false hoods to make them feel better about their lives.

[Ovisterra]

How did we land from Greece to Ireland?

Because they're both in the metaphorical shit right now in terms of economics.

Mind you, if we start getting Fascist parties in Ireland, I may be forced to get up off my ass and do something to ensure they don't gain political foothold, so here's hoping we don't.

[Ovisterra]

IRA disarmed and the only thing remaining of it its the politica, wing, Sinn Feinn (which is still a quite important party in Northhern Ireland.
If I recall well, the current leaders of Sinn Fein heavily distance thenselves from movements such as PIRA and Real IRA.

The name Sinn Fein sounds so badass.

It actually just means "We ourselves".

[Ovisterra]

It actually just means "We ourselves".

Still a badass statement.

It's a pity, because they're not exactly my favourite political party.

[Ovisterra]

It's a pity, because they're not exactly my favourite political party.

They still sound cooler than Fianna Fail.

Technically it's spelled "Fianna Fáil".

[Ovisterra]

-snip-

I think your code had an oopsie.

[Pherabi]

I'm not a fascist, and I don't agree with fascist policy. Let me make that perfectly clear before saying this:

As an independent nation, doesn't Greece have the right to set its own immigration policy? What if they decide they don't want anymore immigrants? Isn't that okay? Furthermore, while racism is deplorable, the idea that Greece is, well, Greek, only seems to follow logically, and they should have a right to refuse immigrants on that basis, shouldn't they?

Now, obviously, you can't kick people out who already live there. I'm just saying, hypothetically, if they want to stop allowing the people of Pakistan or Turkey or France or whatever from entering, they have the right don't they? Or should, rather, considering the EU frowns upon that nonsense.

[Pherabi]

I'm not a fascist, and I don't agree with fascist policy. Let me make that perfectly clear before saying this:

As an independent nation, doesn't Greece have the right to set its own immigration policy? What if they decide they don't want anymore immigrants? Isn't that okay? Furthermore, while racism is deplorable, the idea that Greece is, well, Greek, only seems to follow logically, and they should have a right to refuse immigrants on that basis, shouldn't they?

Now, obviously, you can't kick people out who already live there. I'm just saying, hypothetically, if they want to stop allowing the people of Pakistan or Turkey or France or whatever from entering, they have the right don't they? Or should, rather, considering the EU frowns upon that nonsense.

Your argument doesn't follow logically. If they are an independent nation not only do they have the right to set their own immigration policy as you concede. But they also have the right to set their own deportation policy. So they can "kick people out" if they so choose.

I suppose they could yes, and I admit that's a hole in my whole "freedom" thing. That said, most countries would likely consent to slow down or begin halting widespread immigration without necessarily engaging in mass deportation, if only for fear of moral backlash from other countries. The argument may not follow logically, but it certainly has a basis in reality (which often does not lend itself to logic). It is an acceptable risk I think, for the independence of a nation state.

[Phoaeniae]

Too bad people still believe fascism=nazi.. just see the difference in the ideologies of Hitler and Musollini.

Since you posed the question, and seeming Greek, I follow this chronicles (despite this "rise" in Greece haven't interested too much me till now) on papers, and I ask myself. notices are not precises arriving here. could you define this movement or party of "GoldenDawn"? wich is the situation. how many seats and importance having in Parliament, how many seats in local provinces or towns or Athen and Salonicco? sometimes sceptical reffering of raight-wing quite fascist, some else Fascist, otherwise National-Socialist..(nazi).. or it's most exageration simply a radical quite nationalistic movements? and then.. about General in Greece.. is there any continuity with that period, how do they refers to that regimes? (if there's some references..).

I mean, it would be very appropiate and interesting if you could explain or reporting facts, to see wath maches to what it's hear in other countries

[Pravengria]

DOWN WITH FASCISM!

^^^

[Priory Academy USSR]

Thats what leftists do.You cant imagine how many times I have heard commies say 'dont let the fasccists speak' and I usually laugh at the irony

Thank you.
You are my hero.

Mine to

OK, so you're ignoring Zaras, who has an opposite (socialist) opinion to you, but then saying that fascists are discriminated against for not being heard out?

[Priory Academy USSR]

Technically it's spelled "Fianna Fáil".

I know, but they are epic fail.

And no one can be arsed to do an accent on letters. I don't even know how.

[Priory Academy USSR]

And no one can be arsed to do an accent on letters. I don't even know how.

In greek language you are forced to.

I assume on Greek keyboards accents are far more easy to find and use, though.

[Quintium]

It's a rather confusing situation. The reason I think the far right appeals to people is because it appeals to what we experience and to what we think. Traditional political parties in Europe have generally operated on a rather undemocratic premise: they would carry out superficial policies, but they would absolutely refuse to question problems that they themselves deemed politically incorrect. That discrepancy is currently rather visible in two fields: the European Union and immigration. Even though a large majority of Europeans want fewer immigrants or even closed borders, a large majority of politicians choose to follow their own views - more immigration. Even though a large majority of Europeans want less powers handed over to the European Union, politicians choose to follow their own views - more powers to the European Union!

The European Union itself, meanwhile, is a widely-detested dictatorship of the bureaucracy. Their extreme stance against capital punishment would almost make you forget that a majority of the population in Europe actually fanatically supports capital punishment at times. The same applies for their views on immigration, economics and criminal justice. What makes them worse than national politicians, though, is that they're chosen by their peers through their own informal networks, and that they can't be removed by the people. So the highest source of law we have is one we can't vote for.

And if you take away people's right to self-determination in favour of your own system - a system that has turned out to be extremely flawed, also - you breed a very toxic type of sentiment. Don't forget, also, that a lot of Hitler's supporters were outraged because France had just invaded them to take over their factories and industrial output, and kicked Germans to the ground who had refused to take off their hats for French soldiers. Does that look familiar to you? Sounds a bit like Greece, with the European Union just moving in and saying they're in charge, then taking all Greece has left and, as many Greeks seem to put it, "flood us with migrants to add to the pain".

Fascism, and all other far-right movements in Europe, are to me just a response by the people of Europe against the half-democratic politicians and undemocratic bureaucrats who try to determine their lives in a way diametrically opposed to what they want.

[Quintium]

But is it really though, admittedly there has been a rise in support across Europe but has it really materialized? The only 'serious' fascist party in Europe is the National Front in France and that's not exactly a recent rise that's been an underlying issue in France for a while

You seem to forget Chrysi Avgi, a party usually called neo-nazi, which is one of the new major players in Greece. Front National is also growing in strength and popularity quite a bit. In Hungary, there is also a party called Jobbik, which apparently vows to take back land inhabited by Hungarians from neighbouring countries. In Serbia, the executive branch of government pretty much consists of former associates of Radovan Karadzic, who is currently on trial for war crimes. Their sentiment, also, is shared by a lot more people than popular media would have you believe. Expanding on the European Union example, a surprising amount of Serbians - most, perhaps - support Radovan Karadzic and do not want him prosecuted in The Hague.

[Quintium]

to be honest that's a lot of what i think at times "proggressive" is, just a cover.

Here's something confusing. In terms of allowing the people to determine their own future, progressive centre-left and centre-right politicians are actually the fascists. They want to stay in power. They've appointed several presidents for the European Union that we don't want or need, presidents who can decide on our future. All in the name of their political ideals, of course, because if the people were to decide, their ideas would be cancelled and reversed in a matter of hours. It's the European Union's unsupported dictates of cultural relativism and economic neoliberalism against what a majority of Europeans want.

[Quintium]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cuR0hO4uX7E - Here's a campaign video for one of the most right-wing parties in Europe, and also one of the most popular ones.

[Quintium]

Immigrants aren't even remotely keen on emigrating to bankrupt countries incapable of governing themselves. You know, like Greece

But many do. They're illegal immigrants, or they're allowed in, or they come there on their way to Western Europe.

Immigrants actually work, and thus participate in the wealth-generation of their host countries - unlike, say, the native Greeks

Hold it right there. I'll need you to source that, and I'll have to tell you that in the Netherlands, and Belgium, and most of the European Union, immigrants not from either the western world or East Asia have unemployment rates several times higher than the native population. And it's not that they're discriminated against, either. Our governments waste millions a year trying to get these people hired, but many are quite happy just living off welfare in a state-funded house with state-funded education and state-funded health care, and they're not afraid to say that.

The native Greeks, despite 'Enjoying' one of the lower immigrant populations in the EU, would rather blame evil immigrants for their woes rather than actually, ya'know... Do some work themselves

The native Greeks, under a dictatorship from the centre-right progressive European Union, have seen their economy destroyed. Unemployment and poverty are so troubling there now that some have taken up substinence farming again. They also work more hours on average than the inhabitants of countless other nations in the European Union, but their pay is relatively low and their economy, as I said, has been destroyed by the European Union.

This leaves us to conclude that the Greeks are incapable of halfway decent system analysis, and hence, aren't too bright

Not exactly true, then, is it?

People who aren't too bright have, historically, shown a tendency to vote extremist factions. Greece provides yet another example of this

Not really.

[Quintium]

I like how Greece having one of the lowest immigrant populations in the EU, and many of the wealthiest EU countries also having the highest immigrant populations in the EU doesn't stop you from blaming the evil, evil immigrants for Greece's woes.

I live in one of the wealthiest countries in the European Union, and I'll tell you straight away - it's despite the amount of immigrants, and certainly not because of the amount of immigrants. If you look at the amount of money spent on immigrants here, it's much more than the amount of money earned by immigrants. There is a very real problem with Afro-Caribbeans, North Africans, Arabs and Sub-Saharan Africans. They tend to reject our values, have extreme crime rates (65% of all Moroccan men are criminals, for example, and 55% of all Afro-Caribbean men) and have extreme unemployment rates also.

Flat-out denial of reality and blatant lying.

Still looking for a response to those things I posted. What do you call them, again? Ah, that's right - facts.

[Quintium]

Unsourced 'Facts'.

Awaiting links to the relevant statistics~

This is a bit tedious, but sure. This is for the Netherlands - an official, accredited institution.
http://www.scp.nl/dsresource?objectid=29810&type=org
It's in Dutch, so mount the Google Translate Gun.

Unemployment, page 132. The bar graph speaks for itself. The figure at the far-right is native Dutch. The bars, for unemployment, from left to right: Turks 11.3%; Moroccans 14.6%; Surinamers 10.4%; Antilleans (Afro-Caribbeans) 12.5%; other non-western immigrants 13.8%; average for non-western immigrants 12.6%; white Dutch people 4.6%.

Crime, page 207. Between the ages of 12 and 23, more than two-thirds of Moroccan men have been arrested at least once. Other non-western groups have figures from ~45% to ~55%.

This is what we're talking about. They work less, and they commit far more crimes.

[Quintium]

This is what we're talking about. They work less, and they commit far more crimes.

So what we get from this is that between 85 & 90% of darkies do in fact work.[/quote]

Not really. Those are only those aged 15-64 who are not enrolled in full-time education or in early retirement or permanently disabled.
And don't link it to racism - I'm in favour of researching racial differences in physique and mental capacities, but I'm not talking about that now.

This is, admittedly, inconsistent with my claims (By ~ 5- 10%). It is, however, staggeringly at odds with the suggestion that immigrants are lazy and dependent on welfare (By 85- 90%).

Much more so, though, than the native population of any of these countries. And that's at rather extreme odds with your claim that they do the work.

As for crime, I note that your original claim that 'Two Thirds' of Maroccans are criminals. I'm afraid that your linked source 1. suggests less than 50%

Then your translation service must be wrong. The figure it states, for all Moroccan men aged 12 to 23, is 65%.

and 2. lists suspects (Arrests?) - not guilty verdicts. Which probably explains the staggering twenty percent rate for natives - I sincerely doubt that 20% of Dutch are criminals (Barring traffic violations in Germany, obviously).

I'd say more than 20% of them are criminals. Contrary to what the politically correct usually say, we're under much stronger surveillance than foreigners, because any kind of racial, ethnic or cultural profiling is illegal and forbidden by treaties, national laws and even the first article of our constitution. In practical cases, it's easier to catch Dutch people, because nobody in government assumes you can be racist against whites. The last time they tried to arrest a Moroccan murderer, fifty people stormed the arrest team, throwing heavy fireworks and destroying a street before riot police managed to retaliate.

What does happen a lot, though, in cases involving foreigners, and I'm studying law, is that they get out of trouble quite easily. Guilty verdicts as delivered by courts are rare. Most 'minor' crimes right up to the point of sexual abuse are settled by public prosecution, to whom they can pay a small sum to get rid of the complaint. Additionally, any small technical error can have a trial cancelled completely. Arrest figures tend to be unrealistic in that they underestimate the actual crime rates, and conviction rates are the result of selective prosecution and a very mild system.

This does still suggest higher crime rates, but, you know... Not actually that much higher than the native population.

Who's denying facts now? As for the idea of muslim rape gangs, I'm aware that they exist. One of them raped and murdered a 17-year-old girl a few miles from my house just last week, and it looks like they'll get out within a few months. One of them is being presented by his lawyer as a victim of circumstance, and some others are putting on a sad face.

[Quintium]

The European Union, as far as I'm concerned, can be blamed for the rise of most right-wing movements in Europe.
Looking at the structure of the European Union, it is not worth saving. It's a total write-off.

I'm in favour of European cooperation, but not through a supranational organisation with a completely-undemocratic and too state-like structure.
Put more clearly: we can work together without being whipped into submission, and not in the fun way, by a buck-toothed creep in Brussels.


And I'm talking about him, obviously.

Multiculturalism beats stupid racist, nationalist xenophobia anytime.

Multiculturalism does not beat anything, because it does not exist. There is no true multiculturalism anywhere in the world. There are only some who still fool themselves by thinking you can put groups of people who'd gladly massacre each other in one country and expect them to behave properly. I live in one of the most 'multicultural' nations in the world, and I'll tell you right now what that means. My neighbourhood is mostly white, European and christian. A few miles from here, the area is islamic, North African and opposed to blacks and whites. A few hundred metres down the road from that live the Africans and Afro-Caribbeans, and a few hundred metres from that live the South Asians.

The only thing you can really say is this: hurrah, we now have hundreds of thousands of people who don't recognise our basic rights and values living within the same administrative borders. Does that mean we like them, or they like us, or we want each other to exist, or they benefit us, or we benefit them? No. Everyone tends to stick to their own group, apart from some who like to riot and some minorities who are united by parts of African-American gang culture that somehow crossed the Atlantic.

[Quintium]

We don't actually blame Israel. Most Europeans know very well that it's our own political elite, through their eurocratic envoys, that does the inviting. Imagine this - out of some kind of guilt and happy-go-lucky idealism, they think everyone should have the right to be here and we'll all be friends. Of course, none of us are friends, and there's more fighting than benefit for either group.

it might be fascist propaganda, but that was awesome!, but they said they wan to bring an end to the fall of communism when they are a far-right party. what does that mean?

What they said in the video was that, even though communism supposedly fell twenty years ago, they're still being governed by leftovers of Eastern European communist regimes.

[Quintium]

Here's what I love. Every time we post facts, the multiculturalists in the room suddenly go quiet for a while, then pick up the discussion again like no facts whatsoever were posted. Let's see what we have proven so far. Feel free to add something.

• Two-thirds of all Moroccan men in the Netherlands, and this is a group numbering more than 100,000 for those who will try to scream bloody murder about the sample size, have been arrested at least once by the time they're 22. Similar figures exist for Afro-Caribbeans (55%) and Turks (45%).
• Non-western immigrants in both the Netherlands and Finland, two countries known to have a great welfare system and virtually no real poverty, have crime rates and unemployment rates starting several times higher than those of the native population.
• Non-western immigrants throughout Europe have higher unemployment rates and crime rates.
• There is a growing amount of islamic fundamentalists in Europe. There are unofficial and even some official shariah courts. There are also islamic rape gangs in Europe who rape white girls for 'asking for it by dressing like a whore and violating islamic norms'.
• Most of Europe's population has had it with immigration, but our governments and the European Union keep forcing it upon us.
• Adding to that, most Europeans have had it with the European Union itself.

Multiculturalism is a lie. And before our friendly Romanian - Ciprian Constantinescu, is that you? - accuses me of never having met a non-white person, I live in an area where a large part of the population consists of non-western immigrants. And I live next to a city where almost half of the population consists of non-western immigrants and their offspring, and where crime rates are astronomical.