Fascist rise in europe

[Zaras]

No. The people are rightfully given no choice here: they would vote for their worst instincts, or eat up populist rubbish in too large numbers. Things like this can't be put up to a referendum. Otherwise you get spectacles like the California Supreme Court being forced to slap the entire electorate in the face for being stupid and throw Prop. 8 in the rubbish.

So you believe people should only be given a choice of how they want to live as long as it conforms to your world view? Who gets to decide what instincts are the worst?

No, I believe that you shouldn't put blatant fucking hatred up to a vote. You don't put gay rights up to a vote, you don't put civil rights up to a vote, you don't put immigration up to a vote. These are not things that are negotiable.

[Melas]

Then you Greeks are either being lazy or racist, because using a 'general term' that is also the name for a specific nationality is stupid, racist, and ridiculous.

I would very much appreciate if you could refrain from emulating Melas' racist and generalizing mindset, since he is neither representative of the Greek population nor the only Greek user present.

Not sure if thats a kind of an insult but I 2nd that motion

[Zaras]

Then you Greeks are either being lazy or racist, because using a 'general term' that is also the name for a specific nationality is stupid, racist, and ridiculous.

I would very much appreciate if you could refrain from emulating Melas' racist and generalizing mindset, since he is neither representative of the Greek population nor the only Greek user present.

Unfortunately, the other Greek user who could be present here would be CTALNH...

[Zaras]

I would very much appreciate if you could refrain from emulating Melas' racist and generalizing mindset, since he is neither representative of the Greek population nor the only Greek user present.

Not sure if thats a kind of an insult but I 2nd that motion

It's an insult. Directed at you.

[Inchon]

So you believe people should only be given a choice of how they want to live as long as it conforms to your world view? Who gets to decide what instincts are the worst?

Civil rights are not up for debate amongst the populace. You don't get to increase your wealth and prestige at the expense of others. That is mob rule and that is wrong.

I'm saying the individual has a fundamental human right to discriminate against or associate with any other individual or group as long as he peacefully respects the right of others to do the same.

[The Nuclear Fist]

I would very much appreciate if you could refrain from emulating Melas' racist and generalizing mindset, since he is neither representative of the Greek population nor the only Greek user present.

I'm just making a joke, dear. I'm fully aware that the majority of the Greek populace aren't lazy, racist, or stupid, nor do they support Melas's bigoted, ridiculous views.

In this context, I'm referring to the hypothetical Greeks he keeps bringing up. His 'Greeks support. . .' leads me to a particular conclusion. However, I do not mean to insinuate that I believe all Greeks are lazy or racist.

Just the imaginary Greeks in Melas's mind.

[Of the Free Socialist Territories]

I would very much appreciate if you could refrain from emulating Melas' racist and generalizing mindset, since he is neither representative of the Greek population nor the only Greek user present.

Unfortunately, the other Greek user who could be present here would be CTALNH...

And "shoot the 'fascists' [by which he means those who aren't Stalinists or communists] and the bourgeoisie and murder the children of the bourgeoisie because they're obviously evil too" wouldn't add much to the debate.

[Zaras]

Civil rights are not up for debate amongst the populace. You don't get to increase your wealth and prestige at the expense of others. That is mob rule and that is wrong.

I'm saying the individual has a fundamental human right to discriminate against or associate with any other individual or group as long as he peacefully respects the right of others to do the same.

No.

There is no right to discrmination.

End of story.

[Inchon]

So you believe people should only be given a choice of how they want to live as long as it conforms to your world view? Who gets to decide what instincts are the worst?

No, I believe that you shouldn't put blatant fucking hatred up to a vote. You don't put gay rights up to a vote, you don't put civil rights up to a vote, you don't put immigration up to a vote. These are not things that are negotiable.

I said this before...the individual has a fundamental human right to discriminate against or associate with any other individual or group as long as he peacefully respects the right of others to do the same.

[The Nuclear Fist]

I said this before...the individual has a fundamental human right to discriminate against or associate with any other individual or group as long as he peacefully respects the right of others to do the same.

Said individual, however, does not have the right to enshrine unwarranted discrimination in law.

[Of the Free Socialist Territories]

Civil rights are not up for debate amongst the populace. You don't get to increase your wealth and prestige at the expense of others. That is mob rule and that is wrong.

I'm saying the individual has a fundamental human right to discriminate against or associate with any other individual or group as long as he peacefully respects the right of others to do the same.

Let's check the Universal Declaration of Human Rights on discrimination:

Article 7
All are equal before the law and are entitled without any discrimination to equal protection of the law. All are entitled to equal protection against any discrimination in violation of this Declaration and against any incitement to such discrimination.

Article 23
2. Everyone, without any discrimination, has the right to equal pay for equal work.


You're talking shit, Inchon.

[Melas]

I would very much appreciate if you could refrain from emulating Melas' racist and generalizing mindset, since he is neither representative of the Greek population nor the only Greek user present.

I'm just making a joke, dear. I'm fully aware that the majority of the Greek populace aren't lazy, racist, or stupid, nor do they support Melas's bigoted, ridiculous views.

In this context, I'm referring to the hypothetical Greeks he keeps bringing up. His 'Greeks support. . .' leads me to a particular conclusion. However, I do not mean to insinuate that I believe all Greeks are lazy or racist.

Just the imaginary Greeks in Melas's mind.

You mean the imaginary half a million greeks that voted for golden dawn??

[Argyres]

There are obviously Greeks who share that mindset (or perhaps sympathize with the Golden Dawn's platform in parts) but everyone i've talked to in my family is against them, despite being from the lower/lower-middle class that's been hit especially hard.

That being said, if the more mainstream parties fail to make substantive improvements to governing, the economic infrastructure, etc....well I wouldn't be surprised at all to see them continue to grow.

[Zaras]

I said this before...the individual has a fundamental human right to discriminate against or associate with any other individual or group as long as he peacefully respects the right of others to do the same.

I say it again.

There. Is. No. Such. Thing. As. A. Right. To. Discriminate.

End of fucking story.

[Zaras]

I'm just making a joke, dear. I'm fully aware that the majority of the Greek populace aren't lazy, racist, or stupid, nor do they support Melas's bigoted, ridiculous views.

In this context, I'm referring to the hypothetical Greeks he keeps bringing up. His 'Greeks support. . .' leads me to a particular conclusion. However, I do not mean to insinuate that I believe all Greeks are lazy or racist.

Just the imaginary Greeks in Melas's mind.

You mean the imaginary half a million greeks that voted for golden dawn??

They're either stupid or bigoted, and I damn well expect they'll be humilliated for the rest of their lives for it.

[Divair]

No, I believe that you shouldn't put blatant fucking hatred up to a vote. You don't put gay rights up to a vote, you don't put civil rights up to a vote, you don't put immigration up to a vote. These are not things that are negotiable.

I said this before...the individual has a fundamental human right to discriminate against or associate with any other individual or group as long as he peacefully respects the right of others to do the same.

Discrimination on an individual level? Sure.


On a commercial or legal level? Absolutely not.

[Of the Free Socialist Territories]

I'm just making a joke, dear. I'm fully aware that the majority of the Greek populace aren't lazy, racist, or stupid, nor do they support Melas's bigoted, ridiculous views.

In this context, I'm referring to the hypothetical Greeks he keeps bringing up. His 'Greeks support. . .' leads me to a particular conclusion. However, I do not mean to insinuate that I believe all Greeks are lazy or racist.

Just the imaginary Greeks in Melas's mind.

You mean the imaginary half a million greeks that voted for golden dawn??

5,800,000 voted against the Nazis.

[The Nuclear Fist]

You mean the imaginary half a million greeks that voted for golden dawn??

I wasn't aware that half a million Greeks constituted the majority of Greeks. It's quite a small minority, all things considered.

[Melas]

There are obviously Greeks who share that mindset (or perhaps sympathize with the Golden Dawn's platform in parts) but everyone i've talked to in my family is against them, despite being from the lower/lower-middle class that's been hit especially hard.

That being said, if the more mainstream parties fail to make substantive improvements to governing, the economic infrastructure, etc....well I wouldn't be surprised at all to see them continue to grow.

They are already 3d party in charts...

[Of the Free Socialist Territories]

There are obviously Greeks who share that mindset (or perhaps sympathize with the Golden Dawn's platform in parts) but everyone i've talked to in my family is against them, despite being from the lower/lower-middle class that's been hit especially hard.

That being said, if the more mainstream parties fail to make substantive improvements to governing, the economic infrastructure, etc....well I wouldn't be surprised at all to see them continue to grow.

They are already 3d party in charts...

Source.

[Inchon]

I'm saying the individual has a fundamental human right to discriminate against or associate with any other individual or group as long as he peacefully respects the right of others to do the same.

No.

There is no right to discrmination.

End of story.

say you were a photographer and a group of homophobes wanted to hire you for a "gay bash" party. Do you have the right to refuse to work for them?

[The Nuclear Fist]

There are obviously Greeks who share that mindset (or perhaps sympathize with the Golden Dawn's platform in parts) but everyone i've talked to in my family is against them, despite being from the lower/lower-middle class that's been hit especially hard.

That being said, if the more mainstream parties fail to make substantive improvements to governing, the economic infrastructure, etc....well I wouldn't be surprised at all to see them continue to grow.

They are already 3d party in charts...

Source?

[Melas]

You mean the imaginary half a million greeks that voted for golden dawn??

I wasn't aware that half a million Greeks constituted the majority of Greeks. It's quite a small minority, all things considered.

They still made it to the goverment and when did I say they are the majority?

[Melas]

They are already 3d party in charts...

Source?

http://www.protagon.gr/?i=protagon.el.article&id=17981

[Zaras]

No.

There is no right to discrmination.

End of story.

say you were a photographer and a group of homophobes wanted to hire you for a "gay bash" party. Do you have the right to refuse to work for them?

Don't try to end run me, you damn well know the answer is yes. You were advocating the right of voters to submit to their worst mob rule instincts and vote in a referendum to bash immigrants. There is no right to that.

Discrimination is something that can never be allowed at a level beyond the individual. There is no right to it.