NATION

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Men aren't worse off.

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

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Jinos
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Posts: 2424
Founded: Oct 10, 2007
Ex-Nation

Postby Jinos » Tue Oct 02, 2012 7:33 pm

Conformal Veal Theory wrote:
Jinos wrote:Reproduction will soon no longer require women either.


No, replacements for sperm are a lot easier than replacements for uterii.


Easier doesn't translate to "It won't happen."

I'm not sure where artificial wombs are in comparison to artificial sperm, but they're pretty far along.
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Eldritch Love
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Founded: Sep 11, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Eldritch Love » Tue Oct 02, 2012 7:33 pm

Conformal Veal Theory wrote:
The God-Realm wrote:My girlfriend is serious, and if you don't take her seriously you are going to end up with a big hospital bill.

The reason girls are not taken seriously is because most have annoying speaking tones and they make no effort to want to be serious and instead swoon over 1D


I'd say it has more to do with the fact that we're socialized not to take women seriously in such subtle ways that we don't even notice it.



No i have to say current culture doesn't makes people not notice women, though it might lead to some men not taking women as seriously if they are biggotted.

When i used to train female debators the #1 thing most of them had to learn was how to speak with an authoritative presence and it is all tone and projection.

That said i find the article in the OP nitpicky and a more than a little biased.

I would say when a woman has to consider violent interactions when in public with other women for status on a daily or near daily basis then they have a right to judge the "proper" roles of Men. I don't condescend to tell women whether their feelings and basis of their egos are valid, thus I get offended when they do so to me.
genesis 2:19
-And Jehovah God formeth from the ground every beast of the field, and every fowl of the heavens, and bringeth in unto the man, to see what he doth call it; and whatever the man calleth a living creature, that is its name.

Reality is defined by the observer. Our existence defines the Universe we live in.

Those who would sacrifice liberty in the pursuit of security deserve neither. - Benjamin Franklin

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Forsher
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Founded: Jan 30, 2012
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby Forsher » Tue Oct 02, 2012 7:42 pm

Conformal Veal Theory wrote:Gah, this thread is boring. Everyone agrees to much. Where are all the crazy people asserting that males are obsolete and that we should engineer a future utopia of genetically superior asexual female overlords?


Generally they were nuts and were banned for trolling/flaming/assorted other offences. Alternatively, you've chosen a bad time of year.

PapaJacky wrote:
The God-Realm wrote:I'm 30. I'm talking about the fucktard teens who get knocked up and don't give a fuck.


Teen pregnancies have dropped steadily for decades now.


You don't mean births, do you? Because here, at least, they've climbed but abortions mean that there have been fewer births. This article is an interesting perspective.
That it Could be What it Is, Is What it Is

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Grandstate
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Founded: Sep 07, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Grandstate » Tue Oct 02, 2012 7:42 pm

Everything sucks for everybody in a gendered society. It just sucks in different ways for each.
Non-human. Think, slime mold. Post-modern tech-ish - interstellar travel is possible, but a grievous chore.

Unified with The Queendom Seskany.

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PapaJacky
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Founded: Apr 16, 2011
Democratic Socialists

Postby PapaJacky » Tue Oct 02, 2012 7:46 pm

Forsher wrote:
Conformal Veal Theory wrote:Gah, this thread is boring. Everyone agrees to much. Where are all the crazy people asserting that males are obsolete and that we should engineer a future utopia of genetically superior asexual female overlords?


Generally they were nuts and were banned for trolling/flaming/assorted other offences. Alternatively, you've chosen a bad time of year.

PapaJacky wrote:
Teen pregnancies have dropped steadily for decades now.


You don't mean births, do you? Because here, at least, they've climbed but abortions mean that there have been fewer births. This article is an interesting perspective.


Teen birthrates have gone down as well, but I was referring to pregnancies, which has fallen in a similar fashion: http://www.thenationalcampaign.org/reso ... cyinUS.pdf

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Conformal Veal Theory
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Founded: Sep 03, 2012
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Postby Conformal Veal Theory » Tue Oct 02, 2012 7:47 pm

Forsher wrote:Generally they were nuts and were banned for trolling/flaming/assorted other offences. Alternatively, you've chosen a bad time of year.


I saw on other threads that there used to be this guy named FS-something or other and he used to advocate insane positions. What happened to him?

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Samuraikoku
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Founded: May 13, 2011
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Postby Samuraikoku » Tue Oct 02, 2012 7:50 pm

Conformal Veal Theory wrote:
Forsher wrote:Generally they were nuts and were banned for trolling/flaming/assorted other offences. Alternatively, you've chosen a bad time of year.


I saw on other threads that there used to be this guy named FS-something or other and he used to advocate insane positions. What happened to him?


DoS.

In Memoriam. *salutes*

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Conformal Veal Theory
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Founded: Sep 03, 2012
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Postby Conformal Veal Theory » Tue Oct 02, 2012 7:52 pm

Samuraikoku wrote:DoS.

In Memoriam. *salutes*


DoS?

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Samuraikoku
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Founded: May 13, 2011
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Postby Samuraikoku » Tue Oct 02, 2012 7:53 pm

Conformal Veal Theory wrote:
Samuraikoku wrote:DoS.

In Memoriam. *salutes*


DoS?


Delete-on-Sight.

Banned with the mods banning every account he decides to make.

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Conformal Veal Theory
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Founded: Sep 03, 2012
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Postby Conformal Veal Theory » Tue Oct 02, 2012 7:55 pm

Samuraikoku wrote:Delete-on-Sight.

Banned with the mods banning every account he decides to make.


Oh. What happened? Was he that bad? Anything like this "XGP" guy on the blog I posted?
Last edited by Conformal Veal Theory on Tue Oct 02, 2012 7:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Samuraikoku
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Founded: May 13, 2011
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Postby Samuraikoku » Tue Oct 02, 2012 7:56 pm

Conformal Veal Theory wrote:Oh. What happened? Was he that bad? Anything like this "XGP" guy on the blog I posted?


His opinions tended to be unpopular, but that's not why he was banned. He was banned for trolling Christians.

He, however, was my friend. He deserved my respect.

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Eldritch Love
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Posts: 310
Founded: Sep 11, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Eldritch Love » Tue Oct 02, 2012 7:56 pm

??DoS???

South African slang for 'sleep', derived from Afrikaans.
Sweet i'm tired, gonna go dos.

???


To Dos-Verb: Meaning to either do or get destroyed by the overwhelming, extremely intense work from Mr. Dos.
-
The Stylos:"I will Dos until the end of the earth."
???


too slow.
Last edited by Eldritch Love on Tue Oct 02, 2012 7:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
genesis 2:19
-And Jehovah God formeth from the ground every beast of the field, and every fowl of the heavens, and bringeth in unto the man, to see what he doth call it; and whatever the man calleth a living creature, that is its name.

Reality is defined by the observer. Our existence defines the Universe we live in.

Those who would sacrifice liberty in the pursuit of security deserve neither. - Benjamin Franklin

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Gauntleted Fist
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 10061
Founded: Aug 17, 2008
Ex-Nation

Postby Gauntleted Fist » Tue Oct 02, 2012 7:57 pm

Conformal Veal Theory wrote:
Gauntleted Fist wrote:Gee I don't know. What was it you were describing in the post I was responding to?


See that's why I was confused. Did you mean non-zero chance of people advocating Nazism or a non-zero chance of Nazism being true. The reason I'm confused is that you seem to think that the probability of people advocating Nazism is extremely small. I disagree. You can find lots of people supporting it.

No, I mean the non-zero chance of people advocating removing men from existence. it is very small.

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Conformal Veal Theory
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Founded: Sep 03, 2012
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Postby Conformal Veal Theory » Tue Oct 02, 2012 7:58 pm

Samuraikoku wrote:His opinions tended to be unpopular, but that's not why he was banned. He was banned for trolling Christians.

He, however, was my friend. He deserved my respect.


Okay. You know, we hate on trolls, but honestly, they sure as hell make forum life more interesting.

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Conformal Veal Theory
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Founded: Sep 03, 2012
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Postby Conformal Veal Theory » Tue Oct 02, 2012 7:58 pm

Gauntleted Fist wrote:No, I mean the non-zero chance of people advocating removing men from existence. it is very small.


I think you're a bit too optimistic.

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Forsher
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Founded: Jan 30, 2012
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby Forsher » Tue Oct 02, 2012 7:59 pm

Conformal Veal Theory wrote:
Forsher wrote:Generally they were nuts and were banned for trolling/flaming/assorted other offences. Alternatively, you've chosen a bad time of year.


I saw on other threads that there used to be this guy named FS-something or other and he used to advocate insane positions. What happened to him?


Four-Sided-Triangles was deleted for posting a troll-pic due to an extensive history of crossing the line. It was then revealed that he was actually Unhealthy Truthseeker who was DoSed, so he's gone. However, some reckon he's clever enough to find a way back just too rash to avoid regressing.

PapaJacky wrote:
Forsher wrote:
Generally they were nuts and were banned for trolling/flaming/assorted other offences. Alternatively, you've chosen a bad time of year.



You don't mean births, do you? Because here, at least, they've climbed but abortions mean that there have been fewer births. This article is an interesting perspective.


Teen birthrates have gone down as well, but I was referring to pregnancies, which has fallen in a similar fashion: http://www.thenationalcampaign.org/reso ... cyinUS.pdf


Interesting. I'll just find a source for the rise here in NZ.
That it Could be What it Is, Is What it Is

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Samuraikoku
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Founded: May 13, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Samuraikoku » Tue Oct 02, 2012 7:59 pm

Conformal Veal Theory wrote:
Samuraikoku wrote:His opinions tended to be unpopular, but that's not why he was banned. He was banned for trolling Christians.

He, however, was my friend. He deserved my respect.


Okay. You know, we hate on trolls, but honestly, they sure as hell make forum life more interesting.


I prefer a boring forum life than having to fight people espousing outrageous opinions they don't even subscribe to.

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Socialdemokraterne
Minister
 
Posts: 3448
Founded: Dec 04, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Socialdemokraterne » Tue Oct 02, 2012 8:01 pm

Conformal Veal Theory wrote:On a related note, will improvements in reproductive technology make men obsolete, or is this a paranoid fantasy?


Men will never be truly obsolete, because one's value is not the sum of their biological utility.
A social democracy following a variant of the Nordic model of the European welfare state composed of a union of Norway, Sweden, Iceland, Greenland, Denmark, Sleswig-Holstein, and a bit of Estonia.

Leder du måske efter en dansk region? Dansk!

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Conformal Veal Theory
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Founded: Sep 03, 2012
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Postby Conformal Veal Theory » Tue Oct 02, 2012 8:02 pm

Forsher wrote:Four-Sided-Triangles was deleted for posting a troll-pic due to an extensive history of crossing the line. It was then revealed that he was actually Unhealthy Truthseeker who was DoSed, so he's gone. However, some reckon he's clever enough to find a way back just too rash to avoid regressing.


Smart but crossed the line a lot. I know of people like that.

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Forsher
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Posts: 16294
Founded: Jan 30, 2012
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby Forsher » Tue Oct 02, 2012 8:08 pm

Forsher wrote:
PapaJacky wrote:
Teen birthrates have gone down as well, but I was referring to pregnancies, which has fallen in a similar fashion: http://www.thenationalcampaign.org/reso ... cyinUS.pdf


Interesting. I'll just find a source for the rise here in NZ.


I had to find a whole lot of stuff on teen pregnancy recently but I didn't record the sources (rather silly and short-sighted of me) so thiswill do.

New Zealand has one of the highest rates in the developed world - with around 60 in every 1000 young women getting pregnant in 2009. That's up from around 50 in every 1000 girls 20 years ago.


Obviously fairly limited, maybe there's something more like yours out there...
That it Could be What it Is, Is What it Is

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Socialdemokraterne
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Founded: Dec 04, 2011
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Postby Socialdemokraterne » Tue Oct 02, 2012 8:13 pm

Conformal Veal Theory wrote:Let's discuss more the idea that men are becoming obsolete because reproduction no longer requires them. Does anyone wish to defend this thesis so we can at least have fun arguing with a devil's advocate?


Oh, alright. Just don't expect me to be a very enthusiastic devil's advocate. :roll:

A person's value is measured by the sum of their biological utility. If we have the capacity to engineer the human reproductive process to operate independently of male input, we're perfectly capable of engineering every other significant advantage males might bring to society to be replicable in their absence, perhaps through mechanization.

Is that enough to start?
Last edited by Socialdemokraterne on Tue Oct 02, 2012 8:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
A social democracy following a variant of the Nordic model of the European welfare state composed of a union of Norway, Sweden, Iceland, Greenland, Denmark, Sleswig-Holstein, and a bit of Estonia.

Leder du måske efter en dansk region? Dansk!

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Forsher
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Founded: Jan 30, 2012
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby Forsher » Tue Oct 02, 2012 8:17 pm

http://www.myd.govt.nz/policy-and-research/teenage-pregnancy.html

Some interesting stuff here. It says it hasn't changed significantly but leaves no numbers. Plenty of graphs on abortions versus births.

http://www.stats.govt.nz/browse_for_stats/population/births/teenage-fertility-in-nz.aspx

Statistics NZ, detailed but focuses on births.

http://www.treasury.govt.nz/publications/research-policy/wp/2002/02-23/03.htm

Has a peak of 60/1000 in 2000.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10664608

Lacks numbers.

All in all, I'm reasonably certain that it's rising here.
That it Could be What it Is, Is What it Is

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PapaJacky
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Founded: Apr 16, 2011
Democratic Socialists

Postby PapaJacky » Tue Oct 02, 2012 8:17 pm

Forsher wrote:
Forsher wrote:
Interesting. I'll just find a source for the rise here in NZ.


I had to find a whole lot of stuff on teen pregnancy recently but I didn't record the sources (rather silly and short-sighted of me) so thiswill do.

New Zealand has one of the highest rates in the developed world - with around 60 in every 1000 young women getting pregnant in 2009. That's up from around 50 in every 1000 girls 20 years ago.


Obviously fairly limited, maybe there's something more like yours out there...


Yeah, I read something earlier that New Zealand has one of the highest rape rates in the developed world (didn't know if they were counting sheeps or not :p). But yeah, at least in America, I'm putting my money on the idea that people aren't getting stupider, but rather media coverage of stupidity is much larger than before and so, that coupled with basic population growth makes me assume that people aren't getting stupider, it's just that their stupidity is more exposed.

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Grandstate
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Founded: Sep 07, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Grandstate » Tue Oct 02, 2012 8:18 pm

Socialdemokraterne wrote:Oh, alright. Just don't expect me to be a very enthusiastic devil's advocate. :roll:

A person's value is measured by the sum of their biological utility. If we have the capacity to engineer the human reproductive process to operate independently of male input, we're perfectly capable of engineering every other significant advantage males might bring to society to be replicable in their absence, perhaps through mechanization.

Is that enough to start?

Doesn't just extend to men, though. If we built an artificial womb, all we would need from women would be their ova. It's basically just which sex we get to eliminating first.
Non-human. Think, slime mold. Post-modern tech-ish - interstellar travel is possible, but a grievous chore.

Unified with The Queendom Seskany.

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Conformal Veal Theory
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Founded: Sep 03, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Conformal Veal Theory » Tue Oct 02, 2012 8:19 pm

Grandstate wrote:Doesn't just extend to men, though. If we built an artificial womb, all we would need from women would be their ova. It's basically just which sex we get to eliminating first.


I bet the Catholic church would like this development.

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