NationStates

I googled the word "Feminism" and learned that it is a term coined in 1895 which was intended to describe...

1: the theory of the political, economic, and social equality of the sexes

2: organized activity on behalf of women's rights and interests

However if you read history you will find that there have been many queens and women of high status in almost every society. Are we then to believe that being an Empress in ancient China meant you were less equal to a male slave?

Shouldn't feminists, if they truly want to exist in a just and equal society, acknowledge that women are not the only people who have been abused in the name of civilization?

Goony Goo Goo wrote:I googled the word "Feminism" and learned that it is a term coined in 1895 which was intended to describe...

1: the theory of the political, economic, and social equality of the sexes

2: organized activity on behalf of women's rights and interests

However if you read history you will find that there have been many queens and women of high status in almost every society. Are we then to believe that being an Empress in ancient China meant you were less equal to a male slave?

Shouldn't feminists, if they truly want to exist in a just and equal society, acknowledge that women are not the only people who have been abused in the name of civilization? 8)

Uh, I think you're ignoring the first definition and forming a completely ignorant hypothesis.

Goony Goo Goo wrote:
Shouldn't feminists, if they truly want to exist in a just and equal society, acknowledge that women are not the only people who have been abused in the name of civilization?

Many do. Have you talked to any?

lol, nah.

Some are.

I would advise further investigation before saying things of this sort. You don't look ready for this debate.

Some, are, because they actually want women to be more superior than men.
But, some just want both genders to be equal.
I would like it if it's equal.

Feminism (At least, the proper kind) is about equal rights for the sexes. So, no. "Feminists," however, are just bigots with different prejudices then the mainstream terrible people. Note my clever use of quotation marks, there. Fortunately, quotation-mark-feminists are few, and far between. Unless you're on the internet, I mean.

Men suffer just as much from patriarchy as women do.

And while the feminist movement has destroyed, or greatly reduced, the effects of patriarchy on women, they have thus far left men still under it's problems.
So I'd say the founding feminists, and most feminists up until very recently, were either sexists or incredibly absorbed with THEIR problems as opposed to societies.

You can tell the sexist history of the term feminism by it's eytmology.

It seems to imply that women are being kept under the heel of patriarchy and need to be raised up to the male level.
This isn't the case at all.
Women weren't given less rights and duties than men. they were given DIFFERENT ones.

The effects of patriarchy effect both, and by labeling the movement feminism, an emphasis is placed on the women's rights issues.

The term feminist is sexist.

Ostroeuropa wrote:Men suffer just as much from patriarchy as women do.

And while the feminist movement has destroyed, or greatly reduced, the effects of patriarchy on women, they have thus far left men still under it's problems.
So I'd say the founding feminists, and most feminists up until very recently, were either sexists or incredibly absorbed with THEIR problems as opposed to societies.

Failure to be a 'One Nation' Movement ( sly dig at Milliband ) equates unfit to exist in democratic societies.

Ask not what your country can do for you - ask what you can do for your country.
JFK.

Some may be, most are about equality though. You'll find bigots in any group sadly.

Norsklow wrote:

Ostroeuropa wrote:Men suffer just as much from patriarchy as women do.

And while the feminist movement has destroyed, or greatly reduced, the effects of patriarchy on women, they have thus far left men still under it's problems.
So I'd say the founding feminists, and most feminists up until very recently, were either sexists or incredibly absorbed with THEIR problems as opposed to societies.

Failure to be a 'One Nation' Movement ( sly dig at Milliband ) equates unfit to exist in democratic societies.

Ask not what your country can do for you - ask what you can do for your country.
JFK.

Imagine if around the same time there were a movement called
Masculinism.
And it was opposed to men being the only sex effected by the draft, the emphasis on "Women and children first", the expendability of the male gender in societal values, the repression of gays while lesbians were (relatively) tolerated, "Men can be nurses too!" etc.

Now imagine if this movement had a lot of members in it who regarded women complaining about the right to vote as "inconsequential"
"Overblowing the issue."
"Whining" etc.
"Being unwomanly."

The reason women didn't have the right to vote and had different rights to men comes very much from the expendability and martial nature of men's role in society.

Okay guys, let's just make skirts unisex and call it a day

No. The aren't sexist.
They simply want gender equality between men and women.

San Leggera wrote:No. The aren't sexist.
They simply want gender equality between men and women.

Some do. A lot don't realize the actual problem. Check my posts.

I keep getting the feeling that this is BBQ.

Grand Britannia wrote:I keep getting the feeling that this is BBQ.

...then take it to Moderation and have the Mods/Admins check.

Ostroeuropa wrote:

San Leggera wrote:No. The aren't sexist.
They simply want gender equality between men and women.

Some do. A lot don't realize the actual problem. Check my posts.

I was under the assumption that the OP was referring to feminists as a group rather than individuals.
Of course there are sexist people in the world, however feminism is not sexist; at least not on its own.

San Leggera wrote:

Ostroeuropa wrote:
Some do. A lot don't realize the actual problem. Check my posts.

I was under the assumption that the OP was referring to feminists as a group rather than individuals.
Of course there are sexist people in the world, however feminism is not sexist; at least not on its own.

The term is sexist.
And the implications of using THAT term to describe THOSE goals is sexist.

Ostroeuropa wrote:

Norsklow wrote:
Failure to be a 'One Nation' Movement ( sly dig at Milliband ) equates unfit to exist in democratic societies.

Ask not what your country can do for you - ask what you can do for your country.
JFK.

Imagine if around the same time there were a movement called
Masculinism.
And it was opposed to men being the only sex effected by the draft, the emphasis on "Women and children first", the expendability of the male gender in societal values, the repression of gays while lesbians were (relatively) tolerated, "Men can be nurses too!" etc.

Now imagine if this movement had a lot of members in it who regarded women complaining about the right to vote as "inconsequential"
"Overblowing the issue."
"Whining" etc.


The reason women didn't have the right to vote and had different rights to men comes very much from the expendability and martial nature of men's role in society.

Obviously, likewise, to be banned, suppressed, and its members penalised at every turn.
EDL,Feminism, the Socialist Worker bunch, whatever. If it does totally describe to the concept of the Nation Indivisible, excise the cancer.

Feminism is inherently sexist. Not to say it hasn't (and isn't) doing some great things as to improving conditions for women. It is flawed from the outset, and thus never able to truly achieve it's goal (that is, equality), by favouring the social development of women over that of men.

Equality by improving social conditions for women and men should be our modus operandi.

Ostroeuropa wrote:

San Leggera wrote:No. The aren't sexist.
They simply want gender equality between men and women.

Some do. A lot don't realize the actual problem. Check my posts.

Er, wait... what's the "actual problem"?

Seeing as how Feminism is about equal rights, a woman who claims to be a feminist but is sexist against men would not be a feminist, but a misandrist.

Besides, it's incredibly difficult to make broad strokes about feminism like that. Feminism is incredibly fractured. You have sex-positive feminists and sex-negative feminists, you have the radical feminists who are transphobic, then there is Trans-feminism...

There are generally three "waves" of feminism.

1st wave: Women's suffrage movement. Susan B. Anthony and all that.

2nd wave: Characterized as the "Women's Lib" movement. What people think of when they think of Feminism, somewhat unfortunately. Did a lot of good, but was flawed, due to it's focus on white women to the exclusion of minority women, it's transphobia, and general sex-negativity. Despite claims to the contrary, not misandrist, but debates were had over the involvement of men. The only misandrist to get big in the movement was Andrea Dworkin.

3rd Wave: The present wave. Is generally much more sex positive, accepting of trans folk, and pays more attention to the issues of minority women. Is criticized by the second wave for not really having a goal. I consider myself to be a "Third wave" feminist. Encourages the involvement of men.

Camicon wrote:Feminism is inherently sexist. Not to say it hasn't (and isn't) doing some great things as to improving conditions for women. It is flawed from the outset, and thus never able to truly achieve it's goal (that is, equality), by favouring the social development of women over that of men.

Equality by improving social conditions for women and men should be our modus operandi.

Essentially this.
Because the term places emphasis on women