You Won't Have Texas to Kick Around Anymore!

[PapaJacky]

The majority of my disdain for Texas comes from the snobbery Texans often engage in. They, along with Georgia, are the only states in the traditional South not dependent on Government teat. They brag often about their heritage and more often, about their size; yet any analysis will show that Texas is 2nd if not far behind in size on most categories. Their firebrand of culture rarely is relatable to any regular American, or indeed, any citizen of the world. On a deeper note, they have terribly regressive tax structures along with overtly pro-businesses stances that which, in totality, though employes many Texans, also drive many of them into perpetual poverty. This, "hate" against Texas isn't a singling of the state in of itself, no, but rather the singling of the brightest star in the crappiest parts of the world.

Texas is #1 in fortune five hundred companies headquartered within the state.

Because Texas is almost a tax haven for the rich and wealthy. The average millionaire in Texas in 2007 paid merely 3% of their income as state and local taxes. The average millionaire in California in 2007 paid 7.4% of their income as state and local taxes.

[Greed and Death]

Texas is #1 in fortune five hundred companies headquartered within the state.

According CNNMoney Texas has only 52 companies compared to California having 53.

http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/ ... es/TX.html

This has Texas at 57.

[Greed and Death]

Texas is #1 in fortune five hundred companies headquartered within the state.

Because Texas is almost a tax haven for the rich and wealthy. The average millionaire in Texas in 2007 paid merely 3% of their income as state and local taxes. The average millionaire in California in 2007 paid 7.4% of their income as state and local taxes.

In a country where freedom of movement is a right, tax competition is legitimate.

[Revolutopia]

According CNNMoney Texas has only 52 companies compared to California having 53.

http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/ ... es/TX.html

This has Texas at 57.

That is from 2010 and also has California with 57.

http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/fortune500/2012/states/TX.html

Is is from 2012 and has Texas with only 52.

http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/fortune500/2012/states/CA.html

While, this is also from 2012 has California with 53.

[The Shrailleeni Empire]

It all started here.

If you read the portion of that thread I've linked to, along with many more concerning Texas, it seems as though while people are quick to down the state (on NSG especially) they seem so reluctant and unwilling to let it go.

More to the point, I'm not arguing the legality of Texas secession, I understand that it'd be an illegal act. It being illegal doesn't make it impossible guys...

*rips tag off nearby mattress*

Nope, not impossible.

I'm also not arguing that Texas would win in a war against the United States, I'm arguing that through foreign sympathy, and an ample Texan military that would remain loyal to the Lone Star State (Like, the internationally recognized kind of state, not a US State.)

Anyways, though many factors more than the above two, I contend that there would be no war.


My main question for debate, however, is this...What's with all of the hate against Texas? We have our own culture, perhaps there's jealousy there. We're pledged to serve two flags, the one closer to us first. But, we aren't a just a giant trailer park, we're a real contributor to this Union, and I feel like Texas hasn't gotten the respect it rightly deserves on NSG or nationally. (the giving of said respect could silence all murmurs of secession)

Anyways, I could argue this for decades, so I'll pass the torch to another like-minded person while I catch some Z's.

Discuss.

Hey now, we respect Texas. Sure they stabbed us in the back along with the rest of the Rebs, but that's all water under the bridge now. Texas is a big hunk of territory loaded with people making great contributions to American society. There's bad, but no state is perfect. Although I would say "Texas Culture" is more along the lines of "Hey! We're Texas! Alamo!" than a separate entity from the rest of the states, and not much to be jealous over. And it would be funny to see a scenario in which Texas cuddles up to Mexico for support if it separated. But yeah, we don't want that. Stay Texas, and let's have some steak together.

Now Alaska, there's a state that could up and leave. Nothing there.

[PapaJacky]

Because Texas is almost a tax haven for the rich and wealthy. The average millionaire in Texas in 2007 paid merely 3% of their income as state and local taxes. The average millionaire in California in 2007 paid 7.4% of their income as state and local taxes.

In a country where freedom of movement is a right, tax competition is legitimate.

Sounds nice, until you remember that the Texas budget is built on the backs of the poor while being more inversely true for California.

[Jinos]

What's with all of the hate against Texas?

The attitude of your average Texan is insufferable. We here in California like to joke that we're the best state, Texans actually seem to believe in their own sense of superiority; especially when Texas performs terribly by any measure you compare it to most other states.

We have our own culture, perhaps there's jealousy there.

I assure you. It is not jealousy. More like...repugnance.

We're pledged to serve two flags, the one closer to us first.

It's funny that you say that. Considering it says right in the pledge of allegiance, "One nation, INDIVISIBLE, with liberty and justice for all"

But, we aren't a just a giant trailer park, we're a real contributor to this Union, and I feel like Texas hasn't gotten the respect it rightly deserves on NSG or nationally. (the giving of said respect could silence all murmurs of secession)

Frankly, Texas feels it deserves respect that it has not earned. Your contributions as it were, aren't very pleasant or seem to be overexaggerated. Texas is one of those states that relies more on government handouts than it pays back to America. Yet ironically, Texans not only bitch and moan about pork barrel spending (as if gutting it would fix all our woes) they persist with their "We don't need the Federal government" attitude (when you clearly do).

Giving your state more "respect" would probably just inflate your state ego even further, and it's already the most impressive of all the states.

[PapaJacky]

Wage labor, neigh, wage slavery!

9.5% of workers in Texas worked at or below the Federal minimum wage. 2% of workers in the California worked at or below the Federal minimum wage.[1]

Why? Our minimum wage law is above the Federal one.

That has impart allowed Californians to earn more than Texas as a whole. The median income of an average household in California earned $4,320 more than the median income of an average household in Texas in 2011.[2]

And some may say, the cost of living in Texas is way less than in California! Not huge. One needs to make $11.2 an hour in CA to be considered to have a living wage while one only needs $8.76 an hour for such a classification.[3][4]

Finally, taxes. Though Texas does not impose an income tax, they actually tax more from the middle class and the poor than California does. Texas taxed an average of 9.5% of everyone in the bottom 4 quintiles' (that's 80% of Texan taxpayers) overall income, mostly from regressive sales and property taxes. While California on average taxed 8.7% of everyone in the bottom 4 quintiles' overall income. In fact, if you're in the bottom quintile, that is, the poorest of tax payers, you'd want to move to California because we tax you on average of 10.2% of your income in comparison to the 12.2% of your income Texas will take from you.[5]

Perhaps those are reasons why 18.4% of Texans are in Poverty in comparison to 16.3% of Californians?[6]

That 1% Franchise tax must be working for y'all, y'all ended up paying 0.94 cents to each Federal dollar y'all received; good thing California paid 0.78 cents to each Federal dollar we received, least, back in '05.[7]

[Khadgar]

I personally feel the thread title lied to me and got my hopes up.

[Norsklow]

It all started here.

If you read the portion of that thread I've linked to, along with many more concerning Texas, it seems as though while people are quick to down the state (on NSG especially) they seem so reluctant and unwilling to let it go.

More to the point, I'm not arguing the legality of Texas secession, I understand that it'd be an illegal act. It being illegal doesn't make it impossible guys...

*rips tag off nearby mattress*

Nope, not impossible.

I'm also not arguing that Texas would win in a war against the United States, I'm arguing that through foreign sympathy, and an ample Texan military that would remain loyal to the Lone Star State (Like, the internationally recognized kind of state, not a US State.)

Anyways, though many factors more than the above two, I contend that there would be no war.


My main question for debate, however, is this...What's with all of the hate against Texas? We have our own culture, perhaps there's jealousy there. We're pledged to serve two flags, the one closer to us first. But, we aren't a just a giant trailer park, we're a real contributor to this Union, and I feel like Texas hasn't gotten the respect it rightly deserves on NSG or nationally. (the giving of said respect could silence all murmurs of secession)

Anyways, I could argue this for decades, so I'll pass the torch to another like-minded person while I catch some Z's.

Discuss.

Funny you should mention foreign sympathy. If you count me as a foreigner - and that would be a very safe assumption - rest assured that I would be much more inclined to show my sympathy for those who would give Texas the full Sherman for even thinking such ideas.

[Lackadaisical2]

The majority of my disdain for Texas comes from the snobbery Texans often engage in. They, along with Georgia, are the only states in the traditional South not dependent on Government teat. They brag often about their heritage and more often, about their size; yet any analysis will show that Texas is 2nd if not far behind in size on most categories. Their firebrand of culture rarely is relatable to any regular American, or indeed, any citizen of the world. On a deeper note, they have terribly regressive tax structures along with overtly pro-businesses stances that which, in totality, though employes many Texans, also drive many of them into perpetual poverty. This, "hate" against Texas isn't a singling of the state in of itself, no, but rather the singling of the brightest star in the crappiest parts of the world.

With that one line you've proven you don't know anything.

[Ethel mermania]

Fwiw, I think there should be a constitutional method for sucession. I would set the bar high, like maybe a 66% majority required over two elections 4 years apart. But I think there should be a peacefull way for a state to leave the union.

[Czechanada]

Yeah, what's so great about dumb old Texas?












_{(SpongeBob reference)}

[Ifreann]

It all started here.

If you read the portion of that thread I've linked to, along with many more concerning Texas, it seems as though while people are quick to down the state (on NSG especially) they seem so reluctant and unwilling to let it go.

More to the point, I'm not arguing the legality of Texas secession, I understand that it'd be an illegal act. It being illegal doesn't make it impossible guys...

*rips tag off nearby mattress*

Nope, not impossible.

I'm also not arguing that Texas would win in a war against the United States, I'm arguing that through foreign sympathy, and an ample Texan military that would remain loyal to the Lone Star State (Like, the internationally recognized kind of state, not a US State.)

Anyways, though many factors more than the above two, I contend that there would be no war.

I doubt either of those things would come to pass, but yeah, there'd be no war. Because Texas wouldn't secede.

My main question for debate, however, is this...What's with all of the hate against Texas? We have our own culture, perhaps there's jealousy there.

You're aware that everywhere else in the world also has a culture, right?

We're pledged to serve two flags, the one closer to us first.

Is 'we' meant to be 'all Texans' here? Because that's just patently silly.

But, we aren't a just a giant trailer park, we're a real contributor to this Union, and I feel like Texas hasn't gotten the respect it rightly deserves on NSG or nationally. (the giving of said respect could silence all murmurs of secession)

If you're threatening to secede by military force because people are saying mean things about your state, maybe you don't deserve any respect.

---

I must step in on this, I'm nearly positive that many of the officers of the Confederate army swore that EXACT same oath.

A bad example, yes. But, if men can be driven to break that oath for a horrible reason, I'm sure they'll break it for a good one.

My final thing is this:No oath turns people into mindless drones created for the Presidents bidding.

The American Oath is to the Constitution, not to the President.

And the Constitution establishes the President as Commander In Chief of the armed forces. Basically the same thing.

---

People mess with Texas, especially on forums that lean left, because it has a well-deserved reputation as a right-wing bastion. I'm not saying that this is necessarily a bad thing, or that it's true of all parts of Texas, but the general perception seems to be of a pro-military, gun-loving, socially conservative culture. That lends itself to stereotypes in much the same way that the 70s "fruits and nuts" California reputation did.

Sort of this. I don't especially care about Texas any more than anywhere else in the world, but just about every time there's a thread about something happening in Texas, it's something I(and many others here) object to. I can see how this could create the impression that there's some kind of thing against Texas, but no, it's just that Texas keeps being shit and giving us something to talk about.

---

Fwiw, I think there should be a constitutional method for sucession. I would set the bar high, like maybe a 66% majority required over two elections 4 years apart. But I think there should be a peacefull way for a state to leave the union.

There is. They can get the consent of Congress. There's two chances of that, though.

[Smunkeeville]

There's a certain type of Texan who is arrogant, ignorant, rude, and loud. These are the types that get associated with the state and these are the types I generally dislike.

Find me one person from Texas who isn't an arrogant prick and I'll be shocked. Not all of them are ignorant, rude, or loud though.

[Ethel mermania]

It all started here.

If you read the portion of that thread I've linked to, along with many more concerning Texas, it seems as though while people are quick to down the state (on NSG especially) they seem so reluctant and unwilling to let it go.

More to the point, I'm not arguing the legality of Texas secession, I understand that it'd be an illegal act. It being illegal doesn't make it impossible guys...

*rips tag off nearby mattress*

Nope, not impossible.

I'm also not arguing that Texas would win in a war against the United States, I'm arguing that through foreign sympathy, and an ample Texan military that would remain loyal to the Lone Star State (Like, the internationally recognized kind of state, not a US State.)

Anyways, though many factors more than the above two, I contend that there would be no war.

I doubt either of those things would come to pass, but yeah, there'd be no war. Because Texas wouldn't secede.

My main question for debate, however, is this...What's with all of the hate against Texas? We have our own culture, perhaps there's jealousy there.

You're aware that everywhere else in the world also has a culture, right?

We're pledged to serve two flags, the one closer to us first.

Is 'we' meant to be 'all Texans' here? Because that's just patently silly.

But, we aren't a just a giant trailer park, we're a real contributor to this Union, and I feel like Texas hasn't gotten the respect it rightly deserves on NSG or nationally. (the giving of said respect could silence all murmurs of secession)

If you're threatening to secede by military force because people are saying mean things about your state, maybe you don't deserve any respect.

---

The American Oath is to the Constitution, not to the President.

And the Constitution establishes the President as Commander In Chief of the armed forces. Basically the same thing.

---

People mess with Texas, especially on forums that lean left, because it has a well-deserved reputation as a right-wing bastion. I'm not saying that this is necessarily a bad thing, or that it's true of all parts of Texas, but the general perception seems to be of a pro-military, gun-loving, socially conservative culture. That lends itself to stereotypes in much the same way that the 70s "fruits and nuts" California reputation did.

Sort of this. I don't especially care about Texas any more than anywhere else in the world, but just about every time there's a thread about something happening in Texas, it's something I(and many others here) object to. I can see how this could create the impression that there's some kind of thing against Texas, but no, it's just that Texas keeps being shit and giving us something to talk about.

---

Fwiw, I think there should be a constitutional method for sucession. I would set the bar high, like maybe a 66% majority required over two elections 4 years apart. But I think there should be a peacefull way for a state to leave the union.

There is. They can get the consent of Congress. There's two chances of that, though.

That is not what I mean, sucession should be self determined, via a constitutional method.

[Neo Art]

I have found three things in my life relevant to this thread:

1) "texas culture" such as it is seems to be predicated on racism, homophobia, and casual misogyny, and as such isn't particularly worth defending
2) The "secession movement" in this country amounts to little more than politically impotent angry white people who, if they ever really tried to challenge the federal government, would be stomped on like bugs
3) The food, while good, was largely stolen from Mexico

Having little more relevant to say, I'll simply add this. It's perfectly legal to remove the tags off a mattress you bought, the warning label applies to sellers and distributors only, not purchasers.

[Ifreann]

There is. They can get the consent of Congress. There's two chances of that, though.

That is not what I mean, sucession should be self determined, via a constitutional method.

I don't see why any region would be allowed to leave a country without the consent of that country's government.

[Ethel mermania]

That is not what I mean, sucession should be self determined, via a constitutional method.

I don't see why any region would be allowed to leave a country without the consent of that country's government.

very rarely does any government give up power. The reason for them to do so would be "consent of the governed". If texas or any other local does not want to be governed, there should be a way out, and not use military coersion to keep them in.

[Allemonde]

It wouldn't last very long even if you could, which with the size and scope of the US military would crush it very fast.

I said they same thing about (north) Cali, Oregon and Washington, but that's unlikely.

[Gauntleted Fist]

I don't see why any region would be allowed to leave a country without the consent of that country's government.

very rarely does any government give up power. The reason for them to do so would be "consent of the governed". If texas or any other local does not want to be governed, there should be a way out, and not use military coersion to keep them in.

There is a way out. People in Texas who don't want to be governed by the US government can leave the country (And renounce their citizenship). We don't stop people from doing that.

[Ifreann]

I don't see why any region would be allowed to leave a country without the consent of that country's government.

very rarely does any government give up power. The reason for them to do so would be "consent of the governed". If texas or any other local does not want to be governed, there should be a way out, and not use military coersion to keep them in.

There are ways out. Emigration, for one, and securing the consent of Congress for another, and winning a war for another. But yeah, still not seeing why states should be able to unilaterally secede.

[Ethel mermania]

very rarely does any government give up power. The reason for them to do so would be "consent of the governed". If texas or any other local does not want to be governed, there should be a way out, and not use military coersion to keep them in.

There is a way out. People in Texas who don't want to be governed by the US government can leave the country (And renounce their citizenship). We don't stop people from doing that.

If 70% of texans wanted out, (which they don't, but for the sake of arguement say). What is the legitimate reason for keeping them in the union?

[Gauntleted Fist]

If 70% of texans wanted out, (which they don't, but for the sake of arguement say). What is the legitimate reason for keeping them in the union?

Because of the hardship opposed on the other 30%?

Once again, there is nothing stopping someone from renouncing their citizenship and leaving. There is, however, a very large something stopping a state from deciding it no longer wants to be a member of the union.

[Ifreann]

There is a way out. People in Texas who don't want to be governed by the US government can leave the country (And renounce their citizenship). We don't stop people from doing that.

If 70% of texans wanted out, (which they don't, but for the sake of arguement say). What is the legitimate reason for keeping them in the union?

Because 70% of Texans don't get to determine the state of the entire US any more than 70% of Alaskans could vote Texas out of the Union. If you want to remove part of the United States from the country and make a new country, then you should be asking the government of the United States if they'd be so kind as to turn over control of that territory.