Capitalism good or bad?

[Ostroeuropa]

From what I know, the Soviets kept prices regulated to be low by the governement, no? If that were the case people wouldnt need a whole lot of money.

You don't know anything about economics do you.
If you artificially lower prices, all that is going to do is make people view money as more valueable since it can buy more.
But if you still have as much money around, it leads to a total deflationary shitstorm.
JUST like what happened to the USSR.
MAYBE killing all the people who could fucking read was a bad idea, MAYBE a nation of illiterate farmers and factory workers with a few insane beaurocrats in charge can't actually function properly, if they'd kept an accountant or two they wouldn't have done something so monumentally insane. MAYBE.

[The United Soviet Socialist Republic]

http://www.fao.org/publications/sofi/en/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Food_and_A ... ganization

(famine stat sources.)

There is absoltely no mention of famine stats in either of those.

[Geilinor]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Terror

The majority of the population of a nation, is not it's enemy.

..Well he was trying to keep the tsar's out of power, so I cant really blame him, but it wasnt right to kill that many..

Yes.

You know, mostly because it was.

Everyday life was not that bad. But people were poor, and people had basically no rights.

From what I know, the Soviets kept prices regulated to be low by the governement, no? If that were the case people wouldnt need a whole lot of money.

Long lines at government stores resulted.

[The United Soviet Socialist Republic]

From what I know, the Soviets kept prices regulated to be low by the governement, no? If that were the case people wouldnt need a whole lot of money.

You don't know anything about economics do you.
If you artificially lower prices, all that is going to do is make people view money as more valueable since it can buy more.
But if you still have as much money around, it leads to a total inflationary shitstorm.
JUST like what happened to the USSR.
MAYBE killing all the people who could fucking read was a bad idea, MAYBE a nation of illiterate farmers and factory workers with a few insane beaurocrats in charge can't actually function properly, if they'd kept an accountant or two they wouldn't have done something so monumentally insane. MAYBE.

Giving 1% of the nation all the money isnt very good for the economy. No money and no power to governments will ruin the nation and lead to famine, and huge rich poor divides. You know nothing about economics.

[Ostroeuropa]

http://www.fao.org/publications/sofi/en/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Food_and_A ... ganization

(famine stat sources.)

There is absoltely no mention of famine stats in either of those.

The book.

[Sibirsky]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Terror

The majority of the population of a nation, is not it's enemy.

..Well he was trying to keep the tsar's out of power, so I cant really blame him, but it wasnt right to kill that many..

The tsar was dead. He was trying to use fear as a weapon. To get the populance to obey.

Yes.

You know, mostly because it was.

Everyday life was not that bad. But people were poor, and people had basically no rights.

From what I know, the Soviets kept prices regulated to be low by the governement, no? If that were the case people wouldnt need a whole lot of money.

And? Incomes were fucking pathetic. Adjusted for cost of living, exchange rates, any way you want, people were poor.

[Sibirsky]

..Well he was trying to keep the tsar's out of power, so I cant really blame him, but it wasnt right to kill that many..


From what I know, the Soviets kept prices regulated to be low by the governement, no? If that were the case people wouldnt need a whole lot of money.

Long lines at government stores resulted.

The fact that the standard of living in the USSR was shit, is not disputed, even among respected communists.

[Geilinor]

TUSSR, you should probably abandon the whole "Fedualism worked better than Capitalism" argument unless you've got some pretty solid documentation to defend it that you just haven't wowed us with yet. It strikes me as pretty indefensible, and you're likely to just end up feeling like you're getting teamed up on because the entire room says "NO!!!"

I understand that you have a preference for socialist systems pursuing the eventual implementation of communism, but you've got to temper this passion with the fact that Lenin's system failed to meet its stated objectives and was replaced with a few more systems which equally failed to sustain themselves, eventually resulting in the death of the country that was trying them. If you're really serious about bringing a second USSR to the world you've got to face the fact that it failed, ask why, and then try to devise solutions to the problems you discover. Below is a Wikipedia article examining the wage system's inefficiencies throughout the greater bulk of the USSR's history. Examine the article, think of what solutions you might have to each problem you find, and then put it all together. Then move on to another part of the USSR that had problems, try to resolve those.

Do this long enough and you'll eventually develop a well-informed position that everyone will find themselves unable to simply rally against and say "NO!!!". They'll instead be forced to address each of your points one by one, systematically and logically. The reason they'll do this instead of simply going "NO!!!" is because you'll have actually stated a case instead of having dropped a one-liner.

I have made some relatively long arguments before. Also feudalism is an awful system, but it is better than capitalism seeing that there was relative economic prosperity under that system, capitalism has bombed horibly.

What prosperity under feudalism? Extreme poverty, disease, etc.? Working classes getting oppressed which leads to revolution, as in France?

[The United Soviet Socialist Republic]

..Well he was trying to keep the tsar's out of power, so I cant really blame him, but it wasnt right to kill that many..

The tsar was dead. He was trying to use fear as a weapon. To get the populance to obey.

From what I know, the Soviets kept prices regulated to be low by the governement, no? If that were the case people wouldnt need a whole lot of money.

And? Incomes were fucking pathetic. Adjusted for cost of living, exchange rates, any way you want, people were poor.

Well fair enough.

If people can buy necessities than things are fine. People dont need to buy big SUV's, flatscreen tv's, and other capitalist things.

[Ostroeuropa]

You don't know anything about economics do you.
If you artificially lower prices, all that is going to do is make people view money as more valueable since it can buy more.
But if you still have as much money around, it leads to a total inflationary shitstorm.
JUST like what happened to the USSR.
MAYBE killing all the people who could fucking read was a bad idea, MAYBE a nation of illiterate farmers and factory workers with a few insane beaurocrats in charge can't actually function properly, if they'd kept an accountant or two they wouldn't have done something so monumentally insane. MAYBE.

Giving 1% of the nation all the money isnt very good for the economy. No money and no power to governments will ruin the nation and lead to famine, and huge rich poor divides. You know nothing about economics.

Source this. Go ahead. Why famines? Why nation ruins?

[Vazeckta]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Terror

The majority of the population of a nation, is not it's enemy.

..Well he was trying to keep the tsar's out of power, so I cant really blame him, but it wasnt right to kill that many..

So if CPA went and killed all the democrats, its okay?

Yes.

You know, mostly because it was.

Everyday life was not that bad. But people were poor, and people had basically no rights.

From what I know, the Soviets kept prices regulated to be low by the governement, no? If that were the case people wouldnt need a whole lot of money.

You're saying it's okay to forcibly make everyone poor if you lower the food that they can't get anywhere else?

[The United Soviet Socialist Republic]

..Well he was trying to keep the tsar's out of power, so I cant really blame him, but it wasnt right to kill that many..

So if CPA went and killed all the democrats, its okay?

From what I know, the Soviets kept prices regulated to be low by the governement, no? If that were the case people wouldnt need a whole lot of money.

You're saying it's okay to forcibly make everyone poor if you lower the food that they can't get anywhere else?

No.

Well if they have essentials than they dont need extra money.

[Death Metal]

If people can buy necessities than things are fine. People dont need to buy big SUV's, flatscreen tv's, and other capitalist things.

Buying things that aren't necessities keeps the economy flowing.

Also, wider range of goods = more job opportunities.

[Frisivisia]

The tsar was dead. He was trying to use fear as a weapon. To get the populance to obey.

And? Incomes were fucking pathetic. Adjusted for cost of living, exchange rates, any way you want, people were poor.

Well fair enough.

If people can buy necessities than things are fine. People dont need to buy big SUV's, flatscreen tv's, and other capitalist things.

And computers, I hate people with computers. Filthy Capitalists.

[Ostroeuropa]

So if CPA went and killed all the democrats, its okay?


You're saying it's okay to forcibly make everyone poor if you lower the food that they can't get anywhere else?

No.

Well if they have essentials than they dont need extra money.

Get off the internet and give your extra stuff to the poor.

[Samuraikoku]

Well fair enough.

If people can buy necessities than things are fine. People dont need to buy big SUV's, flatscreen tv's, and other capitalist things.

I want a PS3. Why can't I buy it? Because the State says so?

FUCK THAT HERESY.

[Death Metal]

Well fair enough.

If people can buy necessities than things are fine. People dont need to buy big SUV's, flatscreen tv's, and other capitalist things.

And computers, I hate people with computers. Filthy Capitalists.

Aaand Fris wins the argument.

[The United Soviet Socialist Republic]

Giving 1% of the nation all the money isnt very good for the economy. No money and no power to governments will ruin the nation and lead to famine, and huge rich poor divides. You know nothing about economics.

Source this. Go ahead. Why famines? Why nation ruins?

I found some sources, but they are biasedly Left Wing and I dont like using biased sites.

[Ostroeuropa]

Source this. Go ahead. Why famines? Why nation ruins?

I found some sources, but they are biasedly Left Wing and I dont like using biased sites.

Well then, you admit you don't have any credible sources.

[Williamson]

So if CPA went and killed all the democrats, its okay?


You're saying it's okay to forcibly make everyone poor if you lower the food that they can't get anywhere else?

No.

Well if they have essentials than they dont need extra money.

why don't you sell everything that's yours the unnessary and give the money to the poor. Like your computer.

[The United Soviet Socialist Republic]

I found some sources, but they are biasedly Left Wing and I dont like using biased sites.

Well then, you admit you don't have any credible sources.

Almost all sites dealing with capitlism are biased.

[The United Soviet Socialist Republic]

No.

Well if they have essentials than they dont need extra money.

why don't you sell everything that's yours the unnessary and give the money to the poor. Like your computer.

I have given to charities and poor people before. Since you care so much, how about you go and sell all your things and give it to the poor?

[Geilinor]

How state capitalism works was basically like this.
1.) You work hard for a business that is part of the government in some way.
2.) They provide what you need, as long as you follow the government(otherwise you get starved or sent to a gulag).
3.) The government takes basically all of it, giving you a few hundred to spend.
4.) The money you spend goes back into the government.
5.) You enrich STALIN!
6.) Stalin takes away your rights and prevents you from ever leaving.
7.) If you had a good idea, to hell with you.

Clearly not the intention of socialism and communism. The people of the Soviet Union weren't asking for that when they joined Lenin. They were promised the end result of communism, which is okay on paper.

[Samuraikoku]

I have given to charities and poor people before. Since you care so much, how about you go and sell all your things and give it to the poor?

Because you're the one arguing that people don't need big SUVs and flat TV screens. Or computers. Therefore, lead by example and practice what you preach. I think I've told this to you before.

[Vazeckta]

So if CPA went and killed all the democrats, its okay?


You're saying it's okay to forcibly make everyone poor if you lower the food that they can't get anywhere else?

No.

Well if they have essentials than they dont need extra money.

Our Soviet friend was keeping an "enemy" out of power. So would the CPA. What's the difference?

Agreed that they don't need it, but they should still be able to get it.