Capitalism good or bad?

[Ostroeuropa]

Actually it does give me power. Especially if you join the parties.

Ugh confused people. You elect people who make decisions for you. Unless you are a politician you are almost powerless.

I'm a member of the labour party. I and 4 others were the deciding endorsement for our candidate as MP.
If I had argued in favour of another, it would have been even closer. (One of those five was swung by my argument.)
Our MP comes to our meetings in full knowledge that her majority is small, and if she doesn't deliver on promises we will find someone who can.

[Vazeckta]

Actually it does give me power. Especially if you join the parties.

Ugh confused people. You elect people who make decisions for you. Unless you are a politician you are almost powerless.

We the voters control how long they have that job. I'd say we're not "almost powerless". Granted, it depends on the laws of your nations, but I can't think of any modern liberal democracy that this wouldn't be the case.

[The United Soviet Socialist Republic]

Ugh confused people. You elect people who make decisions for you. Unless you are a politician you are almost powerless.

I'm a member of the labour party. I and 4 others were the deciding endorsement for our candidate as MP.
If I had argued in favour of another, it would have been even closer. (One of those five was swung by my argument.)

Well...politicians still have the majority of the power.

[Sibirsky]

He had people killed. Sure, he was less bad than Stalin. But he was still a tyrant. His economic policies have nothing to do with it.

The fact that people died, because of his orders, makes him a tyrant.

OK! Than Obama is a tyrant for ordering Bin Laden and other terrorists dead. And Bush is a tyrant for that reason to! And Clinton!

Ok!

I never said they were not tyrants.

Of course, unlike Lenin, they were democratically elected, and, unlike Lenin, they did not have millions of their own people killed.

You do realize that Osama bin Laden was an enemy of the US, right? And other terrorists too.

[Sibirsky]

I will not exept any source invented by capitalists, like GDP's.

So you won't accept measure of economic prosperity that are based on economic prosperity?

Yep!

[The United Soviet Socialist Republic]

OK! Than Obama is a tyrant for ordering Bin Laden and other terrorists dead. And Bush is a tyrant for that reason to! And Clinton!

Ok!

I never said they were not tyrants.

Of course, unlike Lenin, they were democratically elected, and, unlike Lenin, they did not have millions of their own people killed.

You do realize that Osama bin Laden was an enemy of the US, right? And other terrorists too.

1:Source for millions killed?
2:Maybe Lenin killed enemies of the Soviet Union.

[Ostroeuropa]

I was thinking numbers, but that will work.

1970 1980 1990 2005 2007 2009
37 % 28 % 20 % 16 % 17 % 16 %


(malnourishment)

[Death Metal]

Number of starving people perhaps?

As a % of global population?

I'm going to make a prediction right now, and say that the country with the lowest percent will be a democratic capitalist state, and that North Korea (which gains a 0.0 in economic freedom indices and I think we can all agree that's accurate) will be somewhere in the highest 10.

[Sibirsky]

Name something and we shall provide.

Number of starving people perhaps?

You still lose.

Congratulations.

[Geilinor]

I did not say it grows, without any bumps in the road.

You need a source for something so obviously evident? Really?

GDP's were invented by capitalists, obviously capitlist countries have higher ones.

Then what do we use? Healthcare, education, and social well-being give you "capitalist" countries at the top too. Also, no nation is capitalist, we have mixed market economy and state capitalism.

[Sibirsky]

You lived in the Soviet Union?

Yes.

[The United Soviet Socialist Republic]

I was thinking numbers, but that will work.

1970 1980 1990 2005 2007 2009
37 % 28 % 20 % 16 % 17 % 16 %

Source?

Number of starving people perhaps?

You still lose.

Congratulations.

Hey you lose! Communism beat capitalism! Cause I can make up random stuff to. Source?

[The United Soviet Socialist Republic]

You lived in the Soviet Union?

Yes.

And did you think it was some awful tyranical nation?

[Sibirsky]

Ok!

I never said they were not tyrants.

Of course, unlike Lenin, they were democratically elected, and, unlike Lenin, they did not have millions of their own people killed.

You do realize that Osama bin Laden was an enemy of the US, right? And other terrorists too.

1:Source for millions killed?
2:Maybe Lenin killed enemies of the Soviet Union.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Terror

The majority of the population of a nation, is not it's enemy.

[Williamson]

1970 1980 1990 2005 2007 2009
37 % 28 % 20 % 16 % 17 % 16 %

Source?

You still lose.

Congratulations.

Hey you lose! Communism beat capitalism! Cause I can make up random stuff to. Source?

well since their never been a communist country their is no need for sources.

[Williamson]

1970 1980 1990 2005 2007 2009
37 % 28 % 20 % 16 % 17 % 16 %

Source?

You still lose.

Congratulations.

Hey you lose! Communism beat capitalism! Cause I can make up random stuff to. Source?

well since their never been a communist country their is no need for sources.

[Geilinor]

Please.

I know more about Lenin and Leninism than you ever will.

Lenin was a coward. He was a liar. He was a tyrant. Any self respecting communist, would not look up to that piece of shit of a human being. Lenin was a failure.

And because he didnt allow elections he was a tyrant? Hmm? He didnt genocide his own people like Stalin, he was liked by his people, and yet because he was state capitalist not free market capitalist he was a tyrant? Yeah riiiiggggghhhhhhttttt. Are ya gonna say every monarch in history was a tyrant to now?

Lenin claimed to be a communist, but he wasn't. State capitalism isn't even socialism, which is worker control over the means of production. Autocratic governments are not the people.

[Ostroeuropa]

http://www.fao.org/publications/sofi/en/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Food_and_A ... ganization

(famine stat sources.)

[Sibirsky]

1970 1980 1990 2005 2007 2009
37 % 28 % 20 % 16 % 17 % 16 %

Source?

You still lose.

Congratulations.

Hey you lose! Communism beat capitalism! Cause I can make up random stuff to. Source?

Source for the fact that that more people starve in non-capitalist societies?

I don't know. Try the news over the past 2 decades.

[Sibirsky]

Yes.

And did you think it was some awful tyranical nation?

Yes.

You know, mostly because it was.

Everyday life was not that bad. But people were poor, and people had basically no rights.

[Ostroeuropa]

And did you think it was some awful tyranical nation?

Yes.

You know, mostly because it was.

Everyday life was not that bad. But people were poor, and people had basically no rights.

The fact that george orwell's 1984,
a book about a secret book being passed around by outer-party people dissatisfied with the oppressive tyranny, was being passed around by soviet members in secret dissatisfied with the oppressive tyranny and remarking "How does he know what it's like?!" would have made orwell smile.

[Geilinor]

How long did it last before it was replaced with Stalin's weirdo system? Besides, even Lenin himself called the NEP a state capitalist venture, he himself admitted that he never even got to the socialist stage.

Well state capitalism is good, 1% of the nation cant be trusted to not starve the 99%, but the government cares about its people and can be trusted.

The government under state capitalism is the 1%. By Stalin's time, the government starved dissenters. The government let millions die or sent them to Siberia. That isn't caring.

[Death Metal]

Wow, North Korea actually does better than I predicted, though it's still pretty damn high:

http://www.worldlifeexpectancy.com/caus ... y-country/

[The United Soviet Socialist Republic]

1:Source for millions killed?
2:Maybe Lenin killed enemies of the Soviet Union.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Terror

The majority of the population of a nation, is not it's enemy.

..Well he was trying to keep the tsar's out of power, so I cant really blame him, but it wasnt right to kill that many..

And did you think it was some awful tyranical nation?

Yes.

You know, mostly because it was.

Everyday life was not that bad. But people were poor, and people had basically no rights.

From what I know, the Soviets kept prices regulated to be low by the governement, no? If that were the case people wouldnt need a whole lot of money.

[Sibirsky]

Yes.

You know, mostly because it was.

Everyday life was not that bad. But people were poor, and people had basically no rights.

The fact that george orwell's 1984,
a book about a secret book being passed around by outer-party people dissatisfied with the oppressive tyranny, was being passed around by soviet members in secret dissatisfied with the oppressive tyranny and remarking "How does he know what it's like?!" would have made orwell smile.

Indeed.