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If Romney Wins, Wither the Democrats?

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Alien Space Bats
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If Romney Wins, Wither the Democrats?

Postby Alien Space Bats » Sat Sep 29, 2012 12:47 am

A few weeks back, in the "horse race" thread, the issue came up of what will happen to the each of the two major American political Parties if they lose. After some consideration, we decided that the right way to do things is to start two separate threads, one for each Party.

Some ground rules: This is not a 2016 Presidential Election thread. CTOAN has threatened to murder a puppy if we go there, and I strongly believe that we should respect the poor little guy's right to live.

Image

So what we want to do here is stick to generalities - essentially, the "view from height" thing. A lot of us (yours truly perhaps most frequently and loudly) have proclaimed that this is going to be a realignment election, and that whichever way it goes, the political landscape is going to be irrevocably transformed. This is your chance to address that theme: Will defeat for either party cause the current two-party system to come unglued, resulting (perhaps) in a different political balance of power, possibly with different political Parties?

In this thread, we'll talk about what might come to pass if the Democrats lose. If you want to talk about what will happen if the Republicans lose, do it in the other thread.

GRAMMATICAL NOTE: And yes, I recognize that "whither" (as in "which way?") isn't spelled "wither". It's a pun, son.



Before you read this post, you should probably read my OP in the Republican thread (cited above). I'm going to rely on many of the same arguments I used there, only I'm going to turn them on their heads.

Be warned, and go read.

<waits for reader to return>

Given the demographic trends I spoke of in the other post, a Democratic defeat in '12 would seem to be no big deal. If social and population trends are on the side of the Democratic Party, then all Democrats have to do is wait for the overwhelming momentum of history to carry them into power, right?

Wrong.

Republicans know that history is against them. They know that to wait and do nothing means political death. They have shown themselves to be willing to do anything to win, believing (as only fanatical ideologues can) that they and they alone can save America from disaster and restore it to its former greatness.

Therefore, it the GOP wins, the one thing they are certain to do is to act.

If the GOP wins the Senate, they will do away with the filibuster; if they don't, they will exert every ounce of energy that they have to take the Senate in '14, because they're not going to get many more chances after that. Once they have Congress and the White House, they will move to disarm the Democratic Party and effectively make it impossible for Democrats to win at any level - and they will do so by any means necessary.

The first and most effective line of attack on the Democrats involves getting rid of the unions. Unions raise a huge amount of money for the Democratic Party; but more importantly, unions provide a lot of logistical support for Democratic GOTV efforts all across the country. Eliminating the unions, then, is a good first step in eliminating the Democratic Party's ability to turn out voters on Election Day and win elections.

Some people here on NSG have argued that the 1st Amendment's right to association guarantees workers a right to organize. This is incorrect. First, the right in question isn't a right to association; it's a right to assembly. Simply put, it means that Americans can hold political meetings at will, and (at least in the eyes of a strict conservative court) that's all it has to mean. Having a right to meet with others of a like mind and talk is a powerful right - but it is not the same as a right to act in unison with others.

The greatest weakness of unions lies in what they do: They organize labor for the purposes of collective bargaining. Now, in the strictest sense, collective bargain - on its face - constitutes an effective restraint of trade. If workers all stand together and agree to only work for a single, mutually acceptable wage, then they are guilty of collusion, which is a violation of America's anti-trust laws. Worse, if the sole purpose of a union is, in fact, to restrict hiring to its members and/or fix wages in the workplace, then by definition said union is an organization expressly and entirely designed to achieve an illegal purpose: In terms of Federal racketeering law, it is a "corrupt organization", and therefore one that can be properly attacked by Federal prosecutors under RICO.

So what keeps this from happening now? One law: An exception to the Nation's anti-trust laws written into the Clayton Act, which unions got right along with Major League Baseball. It would be a simple enough matter for Congress to repeal the labor exception in Section 6 of the Clayton Act, and for President Romney to sign such a bill "for the furtherance of commerce in America" (or whatever). Once this was done, the Justice Department could unleash the full power of the FBI to descend on organized labor with all the same zeal it once mustered against the Mafia; indeed - legally speaking - organized labor would, in essence, be simply another form of organized crime, to be dealt with in the same way the mob was.

I have no doubt that such a course of action would produce unmitigated violence across America; yet it would be easy enough for the same Republican Congress that passed such a law to extend the 2014 edition of the NDAA to give the President broad powers to classify labor violence as either sedition or terrorism and deal with it accordingly (there's still lots of room at Gitmo, after all), and then to extend this to support for labor violence. This is not to say that we should expect President Romney to begin ordering drone strikes on Youngstown, Ohio; it is to say, however, that the full force of the Federal government could very easily be brought down upon the heads of organized labor, and that it would be fairly easy to intimidate friends and allies of organized labor to stand aside while it happened.

Such a move would swiftly and immediately cripple the Democratic Party, perhaps enough to delay the day when arithmetic might otherwise force the GOP to relinquish power; likewise, attempts to brand labor as "communist" in its intentions and to revive the Red Scare as a political weapon against pro-labor Democrats could be relatively effective in some political districts (and would be deeply appealing to modern Republican sentiment on a national basis).

From there, the next step would be to rewrite voter registration laws and impose uniform voter ID laws as draconian (or more so) than recent laws enacted in the State of Pennsylvania. Ideally, such laws would undermine Symm v. United States, 439 U.S. 1105 (1979), perhaps providing the Roberts Court an opportunity to overturn the ruling; the result of such a event would be to eliminate the right of college students to vote other than by absentee ballot. Highly restrictive absentee ballot rules, in turn, could effectively do away with the student vote altogether - another key in prolonging the viability of the GOP's current political coalition.

Getting rid of the right of minorities to vote would be much, much harder. One way of doing it would be to step up the failed War on Drugs (assuming, absent cynicism, that said war's purpose really ever was about halting drug use) while simultaneously seeking to induce State laws stripping convicted felons of their voting rights for life. In recent years felony disenfranchisement has fallen out of favor; yet today's GOP has resurrected more arcane and reactionary laws before. Here the Supreme Court is clearly on the side of those who would strip felons of their right to vote for life: In Richardson v. Ramirez, 418 U.S. 24 (1974), the Court found such action to be acceptable under the 14th Amendment's Due Process Clause.

If applied on a national basis, such laws could reduce the African-American voting population by almost 19% and the Latino voting population by roughly 10%, as compared to reducing the white vote by just over 3%. The War on Drugs would be the preferred vehicle for such an effort due to the differential treatment of minorities vs. whites in the face of drug charges; as Ron Paul pointed out in a GOP debate in New Hampshire back in January, minorities don't use drugs any more often than whites, but get charged and convicted of drug crimes at a far higher rate. More importantly, most of those who get convicted of crimes are poor, whatever their race may be - and the poor are a sizable portion of the Democratic Party's natural base.

Denying convicts the right to vote has other benefits for Republicans; prison populations count when the time comes to draw legislative districts, yet the prisoners themselves can't vote. This makes it a wise political move for Republicans to place prisons in conservative areas and use their population to draw smaller, tighter districst that are safe for Republican candidates on Election Day. Once released, disenfranchised minority voters also dilute urban voting strength, allowing precincts along the urban fringe to be sliced away and gerrymandered with wealthier (and more Republican) suburbs to further dilute minority voting power.

Ultimately, of course, an attack will have to be launched on the right of the Democratic Party to actually hold a place on the ballot. There are various ways to do this: If the Democratic Presidential candidate can somehow be declared ineligible to serve as President, for example (an extreme case, but not completely out of the question), the failure of the Party to run a Presidential candidate at all would effectively result in them losing their automatic ballot slot in most States, if only until the next election. Of course, such a thing isn't easy to arrange, but other legal challenges could certainly be engineered.



On the other side of the aisle, it's important to look at the impact that losing would have on the Democrats. From recent polling, it's fairly obvious that Democrats largely accept the notion that the biggest obstacle to Barack Obama's success has been Republican obstructionism. If Obama loses, the overwhelming temptation facing Democrats will be to fight fire with fire: To answer Republican obstructionism with obstructionism of their own. Of course, in the scenario described above, in which the GOP gets rid of the filibuster, bans organized labor, shreds the social safety net, and lowers taxes on the rich while eliminating tax deductions and credits for the poor and the middle class, flat-out total opposition is going to be the order of the day. Under such circumstances, the far left will rise to the fore, simply because they're the faction most strongly committed to no-holds-barred, last-ditch resistance.

The question then becomes this: Does the far left duplicate the tactics of the far right and commit fratricide against Democratic moderates, both on the grounds that they're much more likely to compromise with Republicans at a time when compromise must be refused, as well as on the basis of the notion that they don't have the gumption to fight for what's right? Such a move would be very tempting, but it could also marginalize the Democratic Party. As a Democrat, I would oppose such a thing - but as a former Republican who watched his Party get overrun by radicals many years ago, I can't rule out what I've seen before.

If moderates were forced out of the Party, they would likely end up dropping out of the political system rather than form a center Party of their own, disgusted by the excesses of fanatics on both sides of the aisle (a centrist Party would have too hard a time thriving in a FPTP environment, as it would face constant attrition of its voter base at both ends of the political spectrum). Such an event would delay the day that Democrats finally made a comeback by many more years, extending Republican power well beyond the next decade, and quite possibly as far as the middle of the century.

OTOH, if the Democratic Party kept is head, remained inclusive, and fought back hard against Republican efforts to keep it from amassing the voting power to win at the ballot box, it might only find itself out of power for a couple of cycles. Of course, it would still face the threat of domestic violence from right-wing militias once it finally made a comeback, just as it will this year if it wins; but at least it would have at its disposal the levers of power to wield in defense of the Republic once it won, and having done so it could then at last try to fix the damage done by the GOP during the course of the Democratic Party's long trek through the wilderness.



tl&dr: If the GOP takes control of the government, they're going to use every means at their disposal to eliminate the Democratic Party as an institution - or at least prevent it from winning elections any time soon. It's possible that this could result in the Democratic Party getting wiped from the pages of history; it's also possible that under the pressures of extreme resistance to the GOP, the Democratic Party might split, become radicalized, or end up getting overtaken by a more radical party of the left (like the Greens or the Socialists). The most likely scenario, though, is that after a long and difficult struggle lasting several cycles, the Democratic Party will finally get back on top - and that when it does, the GOP will be the Party that gets wiped from the pages of history instead.



And with that, it's your turn: What do you think will happen to the Democratic Party if it loses this year? Will it come bouncing back, will it find itself fatally weakened by Republican efforts to break it in the wake of the election, or will something altogether different happen?
Last edited by Alien Space Bats on Sat Sep 29, 2012 2:35 am, edited 4 times in total.
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Postby Forsher » Sat Sep 29, 2012 1:11 am

You've made America seem like some, to be frank, hastily de-colonised poorly put together nation in the first place. I am not American, perhaps this is why I see the Republican reaction (funny choice of words there) to be extreme.

Failing that, another comparison would be a far-right party not breaking any laws but not working within the old ones either to take complete control...
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Postby Neu California » Sat Sep 29, 2012 1:13 am

The Democrats seem to be in a better position to weather a major blow, because they haven't been moving further and further from the center and into loonytown, unlike the Repubs
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Re: If Romney Wins, Wither the Democrats?

Postby Alien Space Bats » Sat Sep 29, 2012 2:07 am

Forsher wrote:You've made America seem like some, to be frank, hastily de-colonised poorly put together nation in the first place. I am not American, perhaps this is why I see the Republican reaction (funny choice of words there) to be extreme.

Failing that, another comparison would be a far-right party not breaking any laws but not working within the old ones either to take complete control...

I'm probably coming off as someone who sees the GOP as a bunch of monsters. Let me say that I think that someone can be led by faulty thinking into doing monstrous things without being a monster per se. That doesn't excuse the things that get done under such circumstances; what it should do, however, is give us pause when it comes to passing judgement on those responsible.

I think the fundamental sin of the GOP is hubris; more to the point, I think that the GOP has allowed itself to believe that it alone knows what is needed to "save" America. I do hold those responsible for propagating such ideas to blame for their demagoguery; foremost among that Rogues' Gallery is one Newton Leroy Gingrich, Minority Whip and later Speaker of the House.

Do you recall the prophetic words of Georgi Arbatov? "We Soviets are going to do a terrible thing to you Americans. We are going to deprive you of The Enemy".

LINGUISTIC NOTE: Arbatov's remarks were in Russian, and translators usually don't do a good job working from Russian to English. There are no definite articles in Russian, so in its proper "Me-Tarzan-You-Jane" form, Arbatov's quote came out something like "We Soviets are going to do terrible thing to you Americans. We are going to deprive you of enemy." Most translators just assume that the proper way to render that last word is "an enemy", but that's not really how Arbatov meant it. The correct translation is "The Enemy", which conveys Arbatov's understanding of just how deeply (some) Americans had come to need a Universally Recognizable Bad Guy™ by the time the cold war was over.

After 40 years of Cold War, Gorbachev's "New Thinking" was a threat to the right. Generations of conservative politicians had built their careers atop reputations for toughness in facing down the Russians - and now the Russians were gone. The Republican Party was particularly affected by this, in spite of claiming (and largely receiving, even if undeservedly) credit for having broken the back of the Soviet Union. You see, without Ivan to kick around any more, they no longer had a political tool to extract support from the voter. "The Enemy", it turned out, was essential for the re-election of a lot of Republicans. If the Russians weren't going to do their job and be America's Arch-Nemesis, someone else was going to have to take their place.

Had 9/11 happened 10 years earlier, the right's need for a Universally Recognizable Bad Guy™ might have been instantly transferred to Islam; but in 1989 Osama bin Laden was still just a dangerous oddball who had made a name for himself in Afghanistan. That left the likes of Castro, Qaddafi, and Kim - and nobody was ready to take the suggestion that any of them were a life-and-death threat to the United States just yet.

Enter Gingrich. Many rhetorical lemonade out of the lemons that history had given him, Gingrich gave a series of speeches aimed at shaping the thinking of his fellow Republicans; and among the ideas he put forward was the identification of the Democratic Party with "The Enemy".

IOW, Gingrich - through insinuation and rhetoric - began to spread the idea that Republicans should satisfy their need for a Universally Recognizable Bad Guy™ by demonizing their opponents; he essentially took the old Cold War canard about Democrats being "soft on Communism" one step further, and began suggesting that Democrats were Communists.

In short order, Gingrich moved The Threat from Moscow to Washington, from Gorbachev to Speaker of the House Jim Wright and his successor, Tom Foley. He avoided making Joe McCarthy's mistake of accusing the Democrats of actually being Communists, at least in any overt sense; his trick was more to imply that they had become reflexively both hostile to and apologetic for America, and through some kind of Cold War Jedi mind trick by those bastards in the Kremlin had ended up becoming programmed stooges in a plot to destroy America. The Democrats, then, might not be overt Communists, but they sure as Hell were subconscious Reds. Thus, Gingrich insinuated, the Soviet Union might now be gone, but the Kremlin's Manchurian Candidates, the Democrats, were still trying to tear down America as ordered by the unseen (and now defunct) secret masters.

The meme stuck and grew like a weed, to the point where virtually every Republican out there today takes it as a given that Democrats aren't just the political opposition - no, Democrats are out to destroy the Nation. And given the extent and urgent nature of the peril, in true Goldwateresque fashion, Republicans believe that anything they do to stop the Democrats from wrecking the country by turning it into a Socialist Hell-hole is justifiable, whatever it is that needs to be done.

Believe me, it makes listening to Republicans blather on and on about how General Augusto Pinochet was such a great man (for his having "saved" Chile from Communism) positively chilling - especially when Gingrich does it (and all the rest of them chime in).

So there you have it: The GOP has persuaded itself that its political opponents want to destroy America. It has persuaded itself that it alone can "save" America and "restore" it (by undoing 80 years of Democratic policies). And it has persuaded itself that any action that achieves these goals is not only right, but morally required. Under those circumstances, viewed from that perspective, the actions I have described are entirely justifiable; they represent harsh but necessary medicine in the struggle to preserve Our Sacred Way of Life™.

And maybe even our Purity of Essence™, although I probably ought not to go there.
Last edited by Alien Space Bats on Sat Sep 29, 2012 2:16 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Postby Vectrova » Sat Sep 29, 2012 2:15 am

Alien Space Bats wrote:-SNIP-


Goodness, I haven't seen explanations of motivation this extensive since I started reviewing Freudian psychology.

Just a note though: I'm deeply impressed with how thoroughly and critically you examine american politics. It's refreshing and you should feel proud.
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Postby Awesomeland » Sat Sep 29, 2012 2:36 am

If Romney wins, the Democrats' heads, like the rest of our heads, will EXPLODE from disbelief. Honestly, you couldn't get a candidate to THROW this election better than Romney has. This election SHOULD be the Republican Party's to win, but when handed all the potential ammo they could have used, have instead used it to shoot themselves in the foot on full auto.

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Postby Neutraligon » Sat Sep 29, 2012 12:53 pm

Awesomeland wrote:If Romney wins, the Democrats' heads, like the rest of our heads, will EXPLODE from disbelief. Honestly, you couldn't get a candidate to THROW this election better than Romney has. This election SHOULD be the Republican Party's to win, but when handed all the potential ammo they could have used, have instead used it to shoot themselves in the foot on full auto.


One small correction, if the Republican's had put forward any reasonable candidate during the primaries, it should have been there's to lose. The problem was they failed to put forward a reasonable candidate hence where we are today.

The biggest problem I see for the Democrats losing the election is when it comes to the Supreme Court. We have a few members who are probably going to retire soon and will need to be replaced.
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Postby The UK in Exile » Sat Sep 29, 2012 12:58 pm

Neutraligon wrote:
Awesomeland wrote:If Romney wins, the Democrats' heads, like the rest of our heads, will EXPLODE from disbelief. Honestly, you couldn't get a candidate to THROW this election better than Romney has. This election SHOULD be the Republican Party's to win, but when handed all the potential ammo they could have used, have instead used it to shoot themselves in the foot on full auto.


One small correction, if the Republican's had put forward any reasonable candidate during the primaries, it should have been there's to lose. The problem was they failed to put forward a reasonable candidate hence where we are today.

The biggest problem I see for the Democrats losing the election is when it comes to the Supreme Court. We have a few members who are probably going to retire soon and will need to be replaced.


though given republican obstructiveness, I can't imagine a possible 2nd term Obama having much luck appointing new ones.
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Postby Norsklow » Sat Sep 29, 2012 1:00 pm

The UK in Exile wrote:
Neutraligon wrote:
One small correction, if the Republican's had put forward any reasonable candidate during the primaries, it should have been there's to lose. The problem was they failed to put forward a reasonable candidate hence where we are today.

The biggest problem I see for the Democrats losing the election is when it comes to the Supreme Court. We have a few members who are probably going to retire soon and will need to be replaced.


though given republican obstructiveness, I can't imagine t
a possible 2nd term Obama having much luck appointing new ones.


Bush managed with a Democrat controlled Senate IIRC.

It's a matter of finding a candidate who is also appealing to the other side -a democrat John Roberts.
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Postby Indira » Sat Sep 29, 2012 1:02 pm

Couldn't really see the GOP stripping the unions on the basis that it seems unfeasable. From a PR perspective, it would kill them in the next election.

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Postby Greed and Death » Sat Sep 29, 2012 1:03 pm

No not likely, the Republicans if they win will just barely hold onto power. A Democrat loss here would likely give the Democrats 60 senate Seats by 2016.
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Postby Frisivisia » Sat Sep 29, 2012 1:03 pm

Indira wrote:Couldn't really see the GOP stripping the unions on the basis that it seems unfeasable. From a PR perspective, it would kill them in the next election.

It seems that Fox News and Co. have made half the country believe that all unions are evil and probably a front for the mafia. Never mind the lessons of the 20th Century.
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Postby Neutraligon » Sat Sep 29, 2012 1:04 pm

Norsklow wrote:
The UK in Exile wrote:
though given republican obstructiveness, I can't imagine t
a possible 2nd term Obama having much luck appointing new ones.


Bush managed with a Democrat controlled Senate IIRC.

It's a matter of finding a candidate who is also appealing to the other side -a democrat John Roberts.


Truth be told, I don't think any nomination by a democrat will pass unless the person nominated is very conservative. Since I doubt a Democrat will nominate someone reactionary enough, I doubt any nomination will be given the green light. Which makes me wonder what happens when you can't get a new Justice on the Supreme Court.
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Postby Ostroeuropa » Sat Sep 29, 2012 1:04 pm

To be honest, the republican party shit the bed when they appointed palin.
Now the religious right are thoroughly in control of the party and it seems like a moderateish candidate can't run without appointing one of them, or at least thats probably what mccain thought.
It'll continue until they are out of office for another presidents full term imo. then they'll reform.
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Postby Norsklow » Sat Sep 29, 2012 1:05 pm

Ostroeuropa wrote:To be honest, the republican party shit the bed when they appointed palin.
Now the religious right are thoroughly in control of the party and it seems like a moderateish candidate can't run without appointing one of them, or at least thats probably what mccain thought.
It'll continue until they are out of office for another presidents full term imo. then they'll reform.


You're stuck in the wrong one of 2 similar threads in the second time for the day! :rofl:
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Ostroeuropa
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 57904
Founded: Jun 14, 2006
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Ostroeuropa » Sat Sep 29, 2012 1:07 pm

Norsklow wrote:
Ostroeuropa wrote:To be honest, the republican party shit the bed when they appointed palin.
Now the religious right are thoroughly in control of the party and it seems like a moderateish candidate can't run without appointing one of them, or at least thats probably what mccain thought.
It'll continue until they are out of office for another presidents full term imo. then they'll reform.


You're stuck in the wrong one of 2 similar threads in the second time for the day! :rofl:


RAGE.
RAAAAAAAAAAAAAGE.
:(
Ostro.MOV

There is an out of control trolley speeding towards Jeremy Bentham, who is tied to the track. You can pull the lever to cause the trolley to switch tracks, but on the other track is Immanuel Kant. Bentham is clutching the only copy in the universe of The Critique of Pure Reason. Kant is clutching the only copy in the universe of The Principles of Moral Legislation. Both men are shouting at you that they have recently started to reconsider their ethical stances.

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The UK in Exile
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 12023
Founded: Jul 27, 2006
Ex-Nation

Postby The UK in Exile » Sat Sep 29, 2012 1:07 pm

Norsklow wrote:
The UK in Exile wrote:
though given republican obstructiveness, I can't imagine t
a possible 2nd term Obama having much luck appointing new ones.


Bush managed with a Democrat controlled Senate IIRC.

It's a matter of finding a candidate who is also appealing to the other side -a democrat John Roberts.


that was then and this is now.
"We fought for the public good and would have enfranchised the people and secured the welfare of the whole groaning creation, if the nation had not more delighted in servitude than in freedom"

"My actions are as noble as my thoughts, That never relish’d of a base descent.I came unto your court for honour’s cause, And not to be a rebel to her state; And he that otherwise accounts of me, This sword shall prove he’s honour’s enemy."

"Wählte Ungnade, wo Gehorsam nicht Ehre brachte."
DEFCON 0 - not at war
DEFCON 1 - at war "go to red alert!" "are you absolutely sure sir? it does mean changing the lightbulb."

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Norsklow
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Founded: Aug 22, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Norsklow » Sat Sep 29, 2012 1:10 pm

The UK in Exile wrote:
Norsklow wrote:
Bush managed with a Democrat controlled Senate IIRC.

It's a matter of finding a candidate who is also appealing to the other side -a democrat John Roberts.


that was then and this is now.


But how does the situation alter? When the White House and the Senate have different orientations, then he White House will have to focus on pleasing the Senate.
Joseph Stalin, 20 million plus dead -Mao-Tse-Dong, 40 million plus dead - Pol Pot, 2 million dead -Kim-Il-Sung, 5 million dead - Fidel Castro, 1 million dead.

"We the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have done so much, with so little, for so long, we are now qualified to do anything, with nothing"

Don't call me Beny! Am I your Father or something? http://paanluelwel2011.wordpress.com/20 ... honorable/
And I way too young to be Beny bith.
NationStates: Because FOX is for douchebags.

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PapaJacky
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1478
Founded: Apr 16, 2011
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby PapaJacky » Sat Sep 29, 2012 1:11 pm

Most Americans lived fine and sheltered lives under Bush/Reagan. I'm not expecting entering a Orwellian society under any U.S. president in just 1 term so I'm not super worried for myself. However, that's not why I vote, and I'd be worried about millions of others under a Romney/Ryan ticket.

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Greed and Death
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 53383
Founded: Mar 20, 2008
Ex-Nation

Postby Greed and Death » Sat Sep 29, 2012 1:20 pm

all that would happen if the clayton union exemption were repealed is unions could not form multi employer organizations.
UAW, would become United Ford workers, United GMC workers and so on.
"Trying to solve the healthcare problem by mandating people buy insurance is like trying to solve the homeless problem by mandating people buy a house."(paraphrase from debate with Hilary Clinton)
Barack Obama

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The UK in Exile
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 12023
Founded: Jul 27, 2006
Ex-Nation

Postby The UK in Exile » Sat Sep 29, 2012 1:36 pm

Norsklow wrote:
The UK in Exile wrote:
that was then and this is now.


But how does the situation alter? When the White House and the Senate have different orientations, then he White House will have to focus on pleasing the Senate.


the current republicans in congress aren't looking to get their way. there looking to burn the whole system.
"We fought for the public good and would have enfranchised the people and secured the welfare of the whole groaning creation, if the nation had not more delighted in servitude than in freedom"

"My actions are as noble as my thoughts, That never relish’d of a base descent.I came unto your court for honour’s cause, And not to be a rebel to her state; And he that otherwise accounts of me, This sword shall prove he’s honour’s enemy."

"Wählte Ungnade, wo Gehorsam nicht Ehre brachte."
DEFCON 0 - not at war
DEFCON 1 - at war "go to red alert!" "are you absolutely sure sir? it does mean changing the lightbulb."

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The Irish Marchlands
Diplomat
 
Posts: 675
Founded: Sep 23, 2010
Ex-Nation

Postby The Irish Marchlands » Sat Sep 29, 2012 1:49 pm

If I may say with all due respect to the OP, his analysis of the GOP's position should the Democrats win this election while fairly spot on and quite potentially true, his analysis of the aftermath of a GOP victory is, in the eyes of this non-American, rambling doommongering. The GOP has an obvious heavy fanatical wing but they are hardly fascists, they aren't nearly organised and, I dont think, nearly ruthless enough. Well, not ruthless in the way they'd need to be. If they win yes they may seek to consolidate their holdings but they are hardly going to go all Enabling Act on the left wing of American politics. I hate to call Godwin's Law but its kind of necessary here.
For RP purposes my nation has 16 million people.
Militarily, the standing military forces amount to a 10th of the population, 1,600,000 with a substantial amount of the civilian population trained due to an Opt Out national service and a Jingoistic national attitude.

The Irish Marchlands Factbook
Wars
War of Lebourean Liberation - Result: Co-alition victory, regime change, end to genocide, religious freedom guaranteed for all the people of Leboure
Seal


Economic Left/Right: 0.62
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: 3.49
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New Istria
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 113
Founded: Sep 20, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby New Istria » Sat Sep 29, 2012 1:58 pm

I'm not quite sure it will be that bad...

Look, if Romney wins and the GOP gains control of the Senate, yes, it will be very unfortunate. They will take a lot of the progress we've made and turn back on it. But you are getting out of hand. This reminds me a lot of what some of my conservative friends said when Obama won and I had to reassure them that it wasn't going to be the end of the world, that they were being stupid.

Again, not disagreeing the GOP would make this country less than the ideal that I want for it, I just think you're over exaggerating.
President John Flory

A Proud Citizen & Magister of the East Pacific


"Only the wisest and the stupidest of men never change." -Confucius

You better call Kenny Loggins, cuz you're in the DANGER ZONE!!!

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Trollgaard
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 9778
Founded: Mar 01, 2007
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Trollgaard » Sat Sep 29, 2012 2:03 pm

Damn, ASB, you make me want the GOP to win so bad! What a genius and devious plan you have proposed!

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Trotskylvania
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 17217
Founded: Jul 07, 2006
Ex-Nation

Postby Trotskylvania » Sat Sep 29, 2012 2:15 pm

greed and death wrote:all that would happen if the clayton union exemption were repealed is unions could not form multi employer organizations.
UAW, would become United Ford workers, United GMC workers and so on.

While they could legally do that, it would be an exercise in futility, and they'd either be turned into old fashioned company unions designed to depress wages, or they'd be snuffed out of existence.
Your Friendly Neighborhood Ultra - The Left Wing of the Impossible
Putting the '-sadism' in Posadism


"The hell of capitalism is the firm, not the fact that the firm has a boss."- Bordiga

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