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If Obama Wins, Wither the Republicans?

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Alien Space Bats
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If Obama Wins, Wither the Republicans?

Postby Alien Space Bats » Sat Sep 29, 2012 12:42 am

A few weeks back, in the "horse race" thread, the issue came up of what will happen to the each of the two major American political Parties if they lose. After some consideration, we decided that the right way to do things is to start two separate threads, one for each Party.

Some ground rules: This is not a 2016 Presidential Election thread. CTOAN has threatened to murder a puppy if we go there, and I strongly believe that we should respect the poor little guy's right to live.

Image

So what we want to do here is stick to generalities - essentially, the "view from height" thing. A lot of us (yours truly perhaps most frequently and loudly) have proclaimed that this is going to be a realignment election, and that whichever way it goes, the political landscape is going to be irrevocably transformed. This is your chance to address that theme: Will defeat for either party cause the current two-party system to come unglued, resulting (perhaps) in a different political balance of power, possibly with different political Parties?

In this thread, we'll talk about what might come to pass if the Republicans lose. If you want to talk about what will happen if the Democrats lose, do it in the other thread.

GRAMMATICAL NOTE: And yes, I recognize that "whither" (as in "which way?") isn't spelled "wither". It's a pun, son.



I'm sure other people have said it before, and it's possible some have said it as often or as loudly; but one of Rachel Maddow's most frequent assertions is that Republicans respond to defeat by moving further to the right.

As Mitt Romney's campaign begins to look more and more like a forlorn hope, the telltale signs are already starting to appear. Romney was not "an authentic conservative"; while he may have tried to look, act, and talk like one, he never quite pulled it off. "Real" conservatives knew that he wasn't the long-hoped-for Second Coming of Reagan, and from time to time he tipped the world off to the fact that he really didn't want to be Reagan Reborn himself: Remember Romney saying that he wasn't going to yank every last vestige of Obamacare out of the ground and burn it with fire?

So come the morning of November 7th, 2012, the GOP will begin its next great forced march to the right; and given how far and how fast it spent the last four years moving that way, we can only imagine where it will end up even by the 2014 mid-terms.

Yet there are real problems with continued movement to the right: Simply put, a very large number of Americans already think the GOP functionally insane; one has to wonder how much farther it can go towards flat-out John Bircherism. More importantly, though, is the prospect of a battle down the road between Paul supporters (who will have to find a new leader going forward, given that their favorite Texas congressman has run his last race) and more traditional conservatives (who still control the Party's microphones).

An objection might be raised on practical grounds: If the November election turns out to be enough of a disaster, won't the Party establishment rebel and demand a more centrist approach? My take is that this will not happen, largely because the GOP's main power centers are now primarily outside the Party.

Think about it: The GOP's principal opinion leaders are all media personalities. Most (like Rush Limbaugh) are independent, and will continue to exert influence regardless of the Party's fate at the ballot box. True, there are media moguls like Rupert Murdoch who have the power to bend a large number of media personalities to their will. Yet much of Murdoch's power is held in check by ratings; even he can't move against the tide of public opinion if it means losing the ear of the Party's grass roots.

Then there are the money men: Karl Rove, the Koch Brothers, Bob Perry, Sheldon Adelson, and many, many more. Again, the biggest challenge for the GOP is the fact that these people operate outside the Party, and can't be controlled by it. The GOP establishment might want to move the Party to the middle, but if the people with the money refuse, then that movement is simply never going to happen.

Against this is the simple reality that demographic factors are rapidly making Ronald Reagan's political coalition of Christian fundamentalists, Southern ultra-conservatives, Western libertarians, working-class reactionaries obsolete. Non-whites are becoming a larger and larger segment of the American populace, and their electoral participation rates are rising to boot; these voters have historically favored Democrats by a 3:1 or even 4:1 margin. As this segment grows in voting strength, it's going to be harder and harder for Republicans - who are hard-pressed to win the white vote by a 60-40 margin - to carry the day. In the past, various Republicans - most of whom belonged to the GOP's "Bush wing" - advocated efforts to win support among African-Americans and Latinos; unfortunately, this would require losing the support of right-wing nativists and disaffected whites, who represent a large part of the GOP's voting strength.

It's a painful dilemma for the GOP: Ride their current base down to defeat, or abandon that base and try to build a new one. Historically, Parties usually only make this choice only when all hope of winning with the old coalition is gone; compounding this in the case of the Republican Party, however, is that fact that it's not the office-holding establishment that has the power to make the decision to do this: It has to be done by the media talking heads and by the cash cows, neither of whom is under any particular pressure to make such a change. Is Rush Limbaugh going to turn his listeners off by advocating ethnic outreach so that the GOP can win? Not likely. If there's going to be any impetus to change, it will have to come from the money men, and it will likely be over the protests of the media blowhards, whose vested interest is in continuing to stroke angry white, male egos.

There's another problem facing the GOP: Young voters. It's often said that voters grow more conservative with age, and to some extent that's true. But there's another angle to be considered here: The "brand loyalty" model of political allegiance. This model says that, just as consumers become attached to a brand through their first experiences in the marketplace (the quintessential example being American car owners), voters become attached to the first political Party they vote for. So just as it was a coup for the Japanese to win the compact car market in the 70's (in so far as it produced a generation of Corolla buyers by the time the 90's rolled around), Republicans benefited immensely from the Reagan Revolution, which produced a generation of lifelong Republicans.

Image

The graph shown above makes the implications of this behavior clear in a way that is omnious for Republicans: Young voters are turning to the Democratic Party to an extent not seen since the 60's. Combined with the rising power of non-white voters, it's not hard to see that the GOP is facing annihilation in short order if they can't address these trends.

In theory, Ron Paul's support among younger voters should be the solution to this: If other Republicans adopted Paul's platform, that might help reduce the gap among younger voters. But there are good reasons why Paul got stomped in the GOP primaries: Young Republicans may have loved him, but mainstream Republicans don't. Unless the GOP can develop some big-tent tolerance, the most likely place for Paul supporters to end up is in the arms of the Libertarian Party, as minor Party voters, with an eventual migration from there into the ranks of the permanently disaffected.

The overall picture, then, is a grim one: The GOP seems destined to lurch further to the right; it seems destined to turn off minority voters even as minorties become the new American political kingmakers; it seems destined to turn away young voters who increasingly want to move in a different direction from the Party base; and nobody seems to be in a position to grab control of the Party and steer it back to safety. Between the certainty of continuing defeat and infighting, the GOP seems destined to falter and fade into a regional Party and then nothing at all; down this road lies ultimate fragmentation and replacement by another Party, with several possible candidates looming on the horizon, including the Democratic Party itself.

Which may well make 2012 the GOP's last hurrah; if Obama wins by 5-7% the way he did four years ago (or even by a larger margin), it will be clear that the demographic door has closed on the Republican Party and that we have entered into a new political era, just as we did in 1800, 1828, 1860, 1896, 1932, and 1980.



tl&dr: I think that Rush Limbaugh, like the proverbial broken clock that's right twice a day, is right when he says that if the Romney loses, it's going to be the end of the GOP. It may take a generation, but I just can't see the party surviving the rot.



And with that, it's your turn: What do you think will happen to the Republican Party if it loses this year? Will it veer so far to the right that it never comes back, will it splinter into several fragments, will saner heads take charge, bite the bullet, end the Party's war on minorities and transform it into a moderate conservative movement that can compete amidst the diversity of mid-21st Century America, or will something altogether different happen?
Last edited by Alien Space Bats on Sat Sep 29, 2012 2:34 am, edited 5 times in total.
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Postby Condunum » Sat Sep 29, 2012 12:49 am

Holy shit, that was the longest OP I've bothered to read. I'll be back to actually participate on sunday. Right now, I have to sleep and prepare for a big day.
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Postby Varijnland » Sat Sep 29, 2012 12:57 am

I am very distressed by that image.

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Postby Vectrova » Sat Sep 29, 2012 1:09 am

We've been saying that the republican party is going to collapse for years now, so I won't hold my breath at the latest rendition of 'But this time, it's FOR REAL!'

That said, I can see the republican party fragmenting into a theocratic one, a jingoist faction, and a free market/state's rights local-centric element if it ever did dissolve. Big tent tolerance can't happen when what unites you with others is a set of fundamentally contradictory beliefs held together by sheer refusal to acknowledge said contradictions and lock-step obedience to the money-makers.

But I could say the same about the democrats too, so eh.
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Postby Forsher » Sat Sep 29, 2012 1:12 am

I've read that both US parties are really big tents with small ones inside. This, to my mind, is not good. As such, I think fracturing is the most likely outcome.
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Re: If Obama Wins, Wither the Republicans?

Postby Alien Space Bats » Sat Sep 29, 2012 1:23 am

Forsher wrote:I've read that both US parties are really big tents with small ones inside. This, to my mind, is not good. As such, I think fracturing is the most likely outcome.

Without getting too deeply into the science of American politics, the "big tent" approach is really the only one that works for us; our greatest era (from 1945-1990) was, for the most part, one in which the two parties were both "big tents" with a lot of overlap - a fact which allowed voters and elected representatives to cross the aisle and support bipartisan initiatives, even when authored by the other sides' political stars.

Simply put, if we ended up with half a dozen smaller parties, our nation would be fundamentally ungovernable. The closest we ever came to that was in the Antebellum Era (1836-1860), and even then things only stayed together because there was a single dominant political Party that could force its agenda on the country.

It's a relic of the combination of FPTP and legislative districts; any time you have a system like that, you're going to end up with 2-3 parties (well, actually, 2½ at most, as the third-place party will end up being a rump). "Big tent" Parties allow for compromise to occur among different political factions at multiple places and times within the process (some occurs at the Party level, and some occurs at the legislative/executive level).

Now, your response may be that the American political system is absurd and it ought to be scrapped. If so, fine; your opinion is noted. But since that's not going to happen, the next best thing is for us to get back to the "big tent" system as soon as we possibly can.
Last edited by Alien Space Bats on Sat Sep 29, 2012 1:24 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Cameroi » Sat Sep 29, 2012 1:39 am

the've got alec, they've got the chamber of commerce, they've got the fed, noooooooo, be nice if they'd go away and take their teabaggers and the ghost of ann rand with them, but somehow i don't think i'll try holding my breath until THAT happens.
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Postby Tubbsalot » Sat Sep 29, 2012 1:56 am

Alien Space Bats wrote:Which may well make 2012 the GOP's last hurrah; if Obama wins by 5-7% the way he did four years ago (or even by a larger margin), it will be clear that the demographic door has closed on the Republican Party and that we have entered into a new political era, just as we did in 1800, 1828, 1860, 1896, 1932, and 1980.

You don't think it's in any way relevant that Obama is a strong candidate, Romney is a weak one, and the coattails of the Bush admin are still in view? I know there's a recession, but it would be a stretch to take two victories and turn it into "the end of a political era." Even if demographics are changing. It's obvious that the GOP can't continue as is unchanged for the next millennium (or even couple of decades), but I don't see that this is a particular turning point. It's just a point on the curve x^2 where x>0.

I'd say they'll keep going pretty much as they have. The party is bound by popular demand, and there's only two demographics in the Republican voting base, as you've noted - and both of those demographics demand more extreme views. They'll continue to the right and pick up some more libertarian candidates in various states as needed until it becomes totally unworkable and either there's a flip to the libertarians or the party splinters. (And wouldn't it be nice to have the vote split in such a way that the liberals are favoured, for once.)
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Re: If Obama Wins, Wither the Republicans?

Postby Alien Space Bats » Sat Sep 29, 2012 2:34 am

Tubbsalot wrote:You don't think it's in any way relevant that Obama is a strong candidate, Romney is a weak one, and the coattails of the Bush admin are still in view?

As you know (because I've seen you over there), I've kicked this idea around in the "horse race" thread: While Republicans tend to explain the extraordinary levels of Democratic turnout in 2008 as a one-time phenomenon (enthusiasm for the idea of electing an African-American President), I tend to see things the way Pew Research does: I think what happened in 2008 was the beginning of a kind of political "Perfect Storm", caused by:

  • Increasing minority population, resulting in a rising number of voting-eligible non-white adults.

  • Increasing minority involvement in politics, as measured by rising registration and voter participation rates.

  • Increasing minority affiliation with the Democratic Party.
The thing about all three of these effects is that they are essentially multiplicative: This makes their impact in the system far more sudden and far more profound. To be sure, Barack Obama is a very good candidate who has had the great good fortune of running against bad candidates for most of his life (Hillary Clinton being the sole exception); yet it's telling to note that even John Kerry, who was a fairly poor candidate, probably would have won the Presidency (while losing the popular vote) if the demographic balance and minority participation rates seen in 2008 had been present in 2004 - and that Al Gore probably would have beaten George W. Bush soundly if he had been running under the conditions Obama faced in 2008 (indeed, I've even seen it claimed that Dukakis would have beaten Bush narrowly in 1988 if he'd run under 2008 conditions - although my own calculations don't agree with that assessment; yet even so, it would have been close).

And therein lies the heart of the matter. This race, more than almost any other, is being driven by demographics. None of the numbers I've seen all year really surprise me; since April, I've been saying - and the polls have been asserting - that barring an October Surprise, Obama's going to win.

Then, too, keep in mind that Hoover was a lousy candidate, while FDR was a great one; yet that didn't make 1932 less of a transitional election, did it? Ditto for Reagan and Carter in 1980, and again in 1984: Reagan's strength as a candidate didn't make his victories any less transformational, either.
Last edited by Alien Space Bats on Sat Sep 29, 2012 2:38 am, edited 3 times in total.
"These states are just saying 'Yes, I used to beat my girlfriend, but I haven't since the restraining order, so we don't need it anymore.'" — Stephen Colbert, Comedian, on Shelby County v. Holder

"Do you see how policing blacks by the presumption of guilt and policing whites by the presumption of innocence is a self-reinforcing mechanism?" — Touré Neblett, MSNBC Commentator and Social Critic

"You knew damn well I was a snake before you took me in."Songwriter Oscar Brown in 1963, foretelling the election of Donald J. Trump

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Postby Atollus » Sat Sep 29, 2012 2:42 am

So about that 2016 electi...

*Hears gunshot*

Er...anyway the republican party has become increasingly batshit in recent years. Their only strength being economic rhetoric that no-one with a half-decent memory believes they will actually follow through on. Its only a matter of time until they fall apart, if the democrats win it is very likely that the republicans will become even more extreme. Whether or not that will be enough to kill the GOP is way too early to say though.
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Postby Ynis Prydain » Sat Sep 29, 2012 2:51 am

The Republican talking heads have constantly and ungrudgingly stated that the party's good as dead if Obama wins the coming election. Of course, it's the same kind of scare-mongering we should have come to expect from these idiots. Yes, this sort of thing will whip up their usual base, but it's killing their independent viewer outlook.

Though, if you've paid attention to Faux news, they're slowly - but surely - starting to ship blame onto Mitten's campaign alone, they'll throw him out as a waste of time and try and repair the damage that they've done to themselves. But honestly, how much further to the right must they go before the rest of America wakes up to the burning bush? They want small government, but lords forbid you're gay. They want less regulation, but they'll be god damned if you have a wee bit of hashes to calm your nerves after listening to Rush spew his metaphorical crap. Then there's the whole rape headache, when they say small government. They mean small enough for people to complain and big enough for the bible to be sat ontop.

The party's a joke.
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Postby Rubiconic Crossings V2 rev 1f » Sat Sep 29, 2012 2:53 am

Alien Space Bats wrote:Think about it: The GOP's principal opinion leaders are all media personalities. Most (like Rush Limbaugh) are independent, and will continue to exert influence regardless of the Party's fate at the ballot box. True, there are media moguls like Rupert Murdoch who have the power to bend a large number of media personalities to their will. Yet much of Murdoch's power is held in check by ratings; even he can't move against the tide of public opinion if it means losing the ear of the Party's grass roots.


I know this is about the US but I just want to point out that Murdoch did influence the John Major/Tony Blair election in 1997 when Blair cut a deal with Murdoch to have The Sun switch sides. If Murdoch can see an advantage to doing that in the US he will.
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Postby New Chalcedon » Sat Sep 29, 2012 3:32 am

I doubt that the GOP will fragment just yet - win or lose this election, I see a 'fracturing' effect taking place, with fault lines appearing between various factions, each determined to move the whole in its own direction.

However, absent a huge change (i.e., Great Depression II level of change), I cannot see the GOP mounting a viable campaign in 2016, or for several elections beyond. 2012 is/was a 'gimme' election - Republican obstructionism had so tarnished the image of government as to tar all incumbents with a black brush indeed, and the ongoing weak economy was an extra obstacle in President Obama's path to re-election. The race was Romney's to lose, and it increasingly appears that he has indeed lost it.

For here we stand, less than 60 days out from Election Day, and most projections show the President winning re-election by a large margin - the only State that he won in 2008 and is certain to lose in 2012 is Indiana. Even with a weak candidate, if the Republican Party cannot win in 2012, it cannot win for the next generation or more.

And the reason is simple, as ASB put it: demographics. The GOP is, and is increasingly becoming, the party of old, angry white men - and that is not a way to wn anywhere but the Deep South and the Great Plains in the 21st century. The west coast (78 EC votes) is lost to the GOP, the Northeast (108 EC votes, without NH) is lost to the GOP, the Midwest (MN, WI, MI and IL - 56 EC votes) is a Democratic stronghold seeing as not even including a Wisconsinite on the GOP ticket has made WI all that competitive, increasingly the southern border states (including Texas, to a lesser extent), rustbelt and Atlantic coast are becoming competitive or already swinging Democratic (such as NM or NV)....there's a limit to how much of the country you can write off and still hope to win. And if future elections are essentially skirmishes over VA/NC/IN, then the GOP isn't going to win.

ASB noted this (by implication) when he crafted Barack Obama's paths to victory in his horserace thread - if Obama wins the Kerry States (none of which have voted Republican since 1988) plus Florida, the game's over, if he wins the Kerry States plus any two of Ohio, Virginia or North Carolina its over too. And now that Virginia, Ohio, Colorado, New Mexico and Iowa are all leaning Democratic, with North Carolina, Indiana and Missouri at least marginally in play, the only way for any Republican to win for the next generation will be by fracturing the Democratic base and sneaking in through the gaps.

However - and this gets back to my opening remark - I doubt that there will be an overt break within the GOP before 2016. The impulse to party unity is still sufficiently strong that the factions will all - in the public eye, if nowhere else - try to play nice and pretend they all get along, hoping all the while that the Democrats somehow nominate a complete putz who essentially hands them the election, especially as there is no 'obvious' successor (i.e., President, VP or huge-name-recognition party heavyweight a la Clinton) who's interested. There will be the final stages of purging the moderates (the last of the old 'big tent' Republicans, these days derided as RINOs), there will be the final stages of consolidating the angry white vote in an effort to win security there, and otherwise they'll wait and see. It's if they lose again in 2016 that there will be the open factional wars, rather than the long knives that are the norm today.

All of this, mind, assumes that Obama wins in November, as he is currently projected to do comfortably. If he loses, it will be for one (or a combination of) several reasons:

(1) October Surprise (most likely in the form of an Israeli assault on Iran);
(2) Vote fraud and vote rigging (despite ASB's belief in the difficulty of engineering such to benefit Republicans to a significant extent, it's still possible - and there are more and more indications of GOP groups playing silly-buggers with things like electoral registration and the like, as well as more formal vote-suppression laws being passed by Teabagger legislatures);
(3) The polls really are that wrong;
(4) A sudden economic downturn.

In the case of (1) or (2) pushing Mitt Romney into the Oval Office, my instinct is that the GOP will rely upon more of the same in future elections. In the case of (3), I'd want to know what went wrong before making predictions, and in the case of (4), the GOP will once again rely upon (and attempt to force) more of the same happening whenever a Democratic incumbent is running for re-election.
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Postby Indira » Sat Sep 29, 2012 3:53 am

Its possible I suppose. Much as I dislike the Republican party (from what I've seen of them) I'm not sure a break up would be in the best interests of democracy in America.

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Postby Ostroeuropa » Sat Sep 29, 2012 3:55 am

If the democrats lose, they'll have two choices.

"Hey, we should move even further to the right. CLEARLY thats why the repugs are winning!"

Or

"maybe this whole, being conservative thing, isn't working out for a party whose base is centre-left..."
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Postby Norsklow » Sat Sep 29, 2012 3:56 am

Move to the center. Obviously.
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Postby Ostroeuropa » Sat Sep 29, 2012 3:57 am

Norsklow wrote:Move to the center. Obviously.


They are already at the centre though...
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Postby Australasia » Sat Sep 29, 2012 3:58 am

Norsklow wrote:Move to the center. Obviously.


That would be the sane thing to do, but the thing is, there are just too many wingnuts in the Republican party now, all ready to purge thinking/sane Republicans from the party. The National Republican party is already a far right-wing party now (I don't even want to talk about the state of Republican party in Mississippi et al - absolutely insane!), and the wingnuts hijacking the once respectable party want to move it to the extreme far right-wing, and will use any election loss to purport that this is what's needed!
Last edited by Australasia on Sat Sep 29, 2012 6:15 am, edited 4 times in total.
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Postby Arumdaum » Sat Sep 29, 2012 3:59 am

Ostroeuropa wrote:
Norsklow wrote:Move to the center. Obviously.


They are already at the centre though...

This thread is about the Republicans, haha. :p
LITERALLY UNLIKE ANY OTHER RP REGION & DON'T REPORT THIS SIG
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Norsklow
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Postby Norsklow » Sat Sep 29, 2012 4:00 am

Ostroeuropa wrote:
Norsklow wrote:Move to the center. Obviously.


They are already at the centre though...



The Republicans ?
Joseph Stalin, 20 million plus dead -Mao-Tse-Dong, 40 million plus dead - Pol Pot, 2 million dead -Kim-Il-Sung, 5 million dead - Fidel Castro, 1 million dead.

"We the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have done so much, with so little, for so long, we are now qualified to do anything, with nothing"

Don't call me Beny! Am I your Father or something? http://paanluelwel2011.wordpress.com/20 ... honorable/
And I way too young to be Beny bith.
NationStates: Because FOX is for douchebags.

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Ostroeuropa
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Postby Ostroeuropa » Sat Sep 29, 2012 4:00 am

Arumdaum wrote:
Ostroeuropa wrote:
They are already at the centre though...

This thread is about the Republicans, haha. :p


Ohhh. I completely brain durped. :p
I thought it said if they lose wtf are the democrats gonna do :p
If the democrats win, there wont be a change immediately.
The republicans need a wilderness period like the UK labour party had under Thatcher/Major to force the wingnuts to understand that they are unelectable.
After 2 or 3 Presidential losses they'll be forced to acknowledge it, losing to one guy isn't gonna change anything. They'll put it down to a quirk/bad luck
Last edited by Ostroeuropa on Sat Sep 29, 2012 4:01 am, edited 1 time in total.
Ostro.MOV

There is an out of control trolley speeding towards Jeremy Bentham, who is tied to the track. You can pull the lever to cause the trolley to switch tracks, but on the other track is Immanuel Kant. Bentham is clutching the only copy in the universe of The Critique of Pure Reason. Kant is clutching the only copy in the universe of The Principles of Moral Legislation. Both men are shouting at you that they have recently started to reconsider their ethical stances.

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Norsklow
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Postby Norsklow » Sat Sep 29, 2012 4:01 am

Australasia wrote:
Norsklow wrote:Move to the center. Obviously.


That would be the sane thing to do, but the thing is, there are just too many wingnuts in the Republican party now, all ready to purge thinking/sane Republicans from the party.


Blah Blah. I remember the same kind of arguments being made about the Democrats, a good while back. Before many of you were even born, I guess.
Joseph Stalin, 20 million plus dead -Mao-Tse-Dong, 40 million plus dead - Pol Pot, 2 million dead -Kim-Il-Sung, 5 million dead - Fidel Castro, 1 million dead.

"We the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have done so much, with so little, for so long, we are now qualified to do anything, with nothing"

Don't call me Beny! Am I your Father or something? http://paanluelwel2011.wordpress.com/20 ... honorable/
And I way too young to be Beny bith.
NationStates: Because FOX is for douchebags.

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Norsklow
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Postby Norsklow » Sat Sep 29, 2012 4:02 am

Ostroeuropa wrote:
Arumdaum wrote:This thread is about the Republicans, haha. :p


Ohhh. I completely brain durped. :p
I thought it said if they lose wtf are the democrats gonna do :p
If the democrats win, there wont be a change immediately.
The republicans need a wilderness period like the UK labour party had under Thatcher/Major to force the wingnuts to understand that they are unelectable.
After 2 or 3 Presidential losses they'll be forced to acknowledge it, losing to one guy isn't gonna change anything. They'll put it down to a quirk/bad luck



It is an easy mistake to make,my dear fellow Liberal Democrat.
There is a similar thread about the Democratic party, and such things become blurred.
Joseph Stalin, 20 million plus dead -Mao-Tse-Dong, 40 million plus dead - Pol Pot, 2 million dead -Kim-Il-Sung, 5 million dead - Fidel Castro, 1 million dead.

"We the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have done so much, with so little, for so long, we are now qualified to do anything, with nothing"

Don't call me Beny! Am I your Father or something? http://paanluelwel2011.wordpress.com/20 ... honorable/
And I way too young to be Beny bith.
NationStates: Because FOX is for douchebags.

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Sane Outcasts
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Postby Sane Outcasts » Sat Sep 29, 2012 5:10 am

If Obama wins, the Republicans will probably start by dismissing Romney as a weak candidate with a poorly run campaign and move swiftly to bury all mention of him in future races. Paul Ryan might get out with just a few wounds by association if he can disavow his running mate quickly enough, but I fear the damage to his career won't be undone by anything less than a new piece of legislation that can make the GOP constituents fall in love with him all over again. While strategists look to the congressional elections to come, the question will be why did Romney fail and how can it be averted?

The Tea Party is already focused on these legislative candidates, working their brand of grassroots support and ideological purity examinations in order to ensure properly conservative people are elected. I doubt we will see an immediate march to the right so much as we will see the last of the more moderate Republicans be replaced by more conservative freshmen. The GOP will maintain it's current hard right platform and simply increase the number of voices holding true to it until they have a strong chorus united against Democrat policies or plans they don't approve, like raising taxes.

However, we're already seeing public reaction to these unwavering ideals in public approval numbers, especially in the rock bottom approval for Congress. Its numbers are very similar to what was seen in Bush's presidency, only the President doesn't share the massive dip in public approval as his coworkers. When the demographics ASB and others talk about come into play and push back against the Republicans in Congress is when the stress fractures will start to show. Veterans of Washington politics will start trying to work across the isle while Tea Party Republicans will try to double-down on their ideals and the media sphere that follows the GOP will eventually pick a side. I really don't know which way that fight will go, but I do think this will result in a period of Republican Party instability and internal conflict that will weken the party until one side wins out. As much fun as watching a full party split would be, I doubt we'll get to see that spectacle beyond the Tea Party possibly trying to go it alone in a third-party sort of way.

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Yandere Schoolgirls
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Founded: Apr 19, 2012
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Postby Yandere Schoolgirls » Sat Sep 29, 2012 6:38 am

Conservatives, and like-minded individuals might as well consider more primitive options if Obama. Worst-case scenario is that red states secede from the unions. Considering that Obama is a blatant socialist I see no reason why not to.

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