Israel/Palestine Issue

[Sulamalik]

I see that post will have great repercussions across the Middle East, causing Israel's retreat from Palestine.

Causing a dominoe effect, turning China into a democratic power, Iran into a peace-leaving nation, and Cuba flying into outer space.

Each irked emoticon is another country liberated.

[Costa Alegria]

Lebanon ? Palestine is a democracy, too.

Mahmoud Abbas is already over his term limit and his cabinet, not the people, voted to extend his term in government. And Hamas has basically removed all political opposition so there is virtually no other political parties in the Gaza Strip.

So, no. I wouldn't call Palestine "democratic".

[Shmana]

A) there is no "state of palestine" so it can't be democratic
B) the palastinian authority is divided by the PLA and HAMAS (they don't recognise democracy)
C) the new comer to being a democracy in the middle east is Egypt

so now we have two democratic states in the middle eat : Israel & Egypt

There are free elections in Palestine, which also other parties than Hamas and Fatah also participate. Their not being so popular does not change this fact. It's normal because the both parties are giving a real struggle in any terms for the liberation of the Palestine, so that they get a high amount of popular support.

And good that you recognized another democracy after claiming that there was no any other one than Israel. Add Lebanon to the list as well, please.

when have i claimed israel is the only democracy in the middle east ? i think you might be confusing me with someone else

and for lebanon, as far as i understand it, there are state laws the state that
the president will be a maroon chrishtian
the prime minister is sunni muslim
and the head of parlament is shia muslim
so how's thats a democracy ?

[Disserbia]

There are free elections in Palestine, which also other parties than Hamas and Fatah also participate. Their not being so popular does not change this fact. It's normal because the both parties are giving a real struggle in any terms for the liberation of the Palestine, so that they get a high amount of popular support.

And good that you recognized another democracy after claiming that there was no any other one than Israel. Add Lebanon to the list as well, please.

when have i claimed israel is the only democracy in the middle east ? i think you might be confusing me with someone else

and for lebanon, as far as i understand it, there are state laws the state that
the president will be a maroon chrishtian
the prime minister is sunni muslim
and the head of parlament is shia muslim
so how's thats a democracy ?

Confessionalism is not inherently contradictory to democracy.

[Corporate Councils]

No, but Confessionalism can certainly destabilize a country like Lebanon, again, especially given the fact that Christians no make up the majority of the population like they did when their constitution was first drafted. The need for reform was one of the causes of the Lebanese Civil War that devastated one of the more developed Middle Eastern countries for decades. If anything it encourages demographic warfare.

[Disserbia]

No, but Confessionalism can certainly destabilize a country like Lebanon, again, especially given the fact that Christians no make up the majority of the population like they did when their constitution was first drafted. The need for reform was one of the causes of the Lebanese Civil War that devastated one of the more developed Middle Eastern countries for decades. If anything it encourages demographic warfare.

Shmana was arguing that because it was confessionalist it was not a democracy. That was the only thing I was refuting.

[Corporate Councils]

I see, well Confessionalism does have a bit of an anti-democratic element to it as it does restrict certain offices to certain groups of people, but I would still call it democratic. Just to clarify you know.

[Disserbia]

I see, well Confessionalism does have a bit of an anti-democratic element to it as it does restrict certain offices to certain groups of people, but I would still call it democratic. Just to clarify you know.

I guess the argument for it would be that its there to protect peace and democracy. I don't think its a good long term solution...

[Neu California]

I have to wonder what Israel will do when Israeli arabs become the majority, as current demographic trends suggest will happen.

As to the Israel/Palestine issue, there's a lot of blame to go around, obviously, but Israel is in a much better position to actually do something to solve the issues that plague thr region than the Palestinians

[Corporate Councils]

I have to wonder what Israel will do when Israeli arabs become the majority, as current demographic trends suggest will happen.

As to the Israel/Palestine issue, there's a lot of blame to go around, obviously, but Israel is in a much better position to actually do something to solve the issues that plague thr region than the Palestinians

Well Israel will have to foster a more open sense of nationalism than simply being a Jewish state, it might have to follow an American/Canadian/Australian model of allowing for a more diverse population to identify themselves as members of the Israeli nation.

[Altito Asmoro]

Israel deserves to exist, but they shouldn't attack the palestinies as much as they do the palestinies have been their awile

Israel didn't actually deserves to exist in Middle East, but deserves to exist in America or Europe, where they'll be closer to their Western Allies.

[Corporate Councils]

Israel deserves to exist, but they shouldn't attack the palestinies as much as they do the palestinies have been their awile

Israel didn't actually deserves to exist in Middle East, but deserves to exist in America or Europe, where they'll be closer to their Western Allies.

I'm sure that the Poles would be so happy to welcome the Jews back to their old homes, just like they did in 1945..

[Ralkovia]

I have to wonder what Israel will do when Israeli arabs become the majority, as current demographic trends suggest will happen.

As to the Israel/Palestine issue, there's a lot of blame to go around, obviously, but Israel is in a much better position to actually do something to solve the issues that plague thr region than the Palestinians

Not really. Considering that the Orthodox have a higher birthrate than secular Jews, Palestinians, and Israeli-Arabs.

[Neu California]

I have to wonder what Israel will do when Israeli arabs become the majority, as current demographic trends suggest will happen.

As to the Israel/Palestine issue, there's a lot of blame to go around, obviously, but Israel is in a much better position to actually do something to solve the issues that plague thr region than the Palestinians

Not really. Considering that the Orthodox have a higher birthrate than secular Jews, Palestinians, and Israeli-Arabs.

My source says otherwise.

[Triumvirate of Mars]

Israel... I'm sorry to say it...
But with our current administration, your on your own. Good luck, and may god defend you and Jerusalem. And should you go down, go down with your pride... With a bang, not a whisper.



Also* Keep in mind.... Theres never been a nation of Palestine. Palestinians are basically the Islamic muslims that were living within the British controlled territory of Jerusalem and the northern heights. "Palestine" is a fancy name for the Syrian islamists that were living in the territory before it was succeeded by the British, and later given statehood by the United Nations to "Israel".
This being said... Modern Palestine = Jordan/Syrian/Iranian (mostly) extremist muslims (Gaza Strip and Heights). They may claim statehood now.. But the fact is that they never have been to begin with.

[Gressallia]

From what I've heard.

Israel was created as a Jewish state in the middle east, Causing Palestine to LOSE land against its will.

So in actual fact the whole blame for this conflict goes toooooooo


THE UN!

[Triumvirate of Mars]

From what I've heard.

Israel was created as a Jewish state in the middle east, Causing Palestine to LOSE land against its will.

So in actual fact the whole blame for this conflict goes toooooooo


THE UN!

Palestine was never a state or recognized as a state. It was English territory. "Palestine" is a term to islamic Syrians/Jordans/Iranians that were living in the area.

If I was living in your house as you were moving in and already paid for it, what would you do?

As much as I dislike the U.N... I agree with this notion they committed too. Because the early U.N was by its purpose.

[Neu California]

Israel... I'm sorry to say it...
But with our current administration, your on your own.

There hans't been a major policy shift away from Israel, so this is nonsense

Good luck, and may god defend you and Jerusalem. And should you go down, go down with your pride... With a bang, not a whisper.

Because, obviously, war is on the horizon
The only real possibility for war is if Israel strikes Iran, which would probably lead to a meltdown of the entire middle east, and render a whole lot of questions about identity pointless.

Also* Keep in mind.... Theres never been a nation of Palestine. Palestinians are basically the Islamic muslims that were living within the British controlled territory of Jerusalem and the northern heights.

They have a collective identity. Also, Palestine is the moden name of Philistine, and whether or not they ever had a state is irrelevent, otherwise Kosovo should never have become independent, for example. Or South Sudan, for a more recent example of a nation never existing before now existing.

"Palestine" is a fancy name for the Syrian islamists that were living in the territory before it was succeeded by the British, and later given statehood by the United Nations to "Israel".

Syrian islamists? You got a source for this, I presume.

This being said... Modern Palestine = Jordan/Syrian/Iranian (mostly) extremist muslims (Gaza Strip and Heights).

Source?

They may claim statehood now.. But the fact is that they never have been to begin with.

United Nations disagrees. Also, see above about states that never existed before existing now.

[Triumvirate of Mars]

Israel... I'm sorry to say it...
But with our current administration, your on your own.

There won't be a major public one. Certainly not during election year.

Good luck, and may god defend you and Jerusalem. And should you go down, go down with your pride... With a bang, not a whisper.

Because, obviously, war is on the horizon
This is correct.... However, if Israel does not strike independently (Which I have faith they may). Then it will leave the opportunity for someone to strike them first in the future.
Israel is a country surrounded by all sides with Islamic states that mutually hate them. Ever heard the term you don't corner a cat? Well I'd like to add in "Threateningly". With the recent shift in the hands of the Muslim Brotherhood, and Iran, both are major threats to Israel.

Also* Keep in mind.... Theres never been a nation of Palestine. Palestinians are basically the Islamic muslims that were living within the British controlled territory of Jerusalem and the northern heights.

Yes, however, unlike Kosovo, Palestine has not been... Whats the term... A "Charity" case, pleading for statehood and presiding under another name simply because they refuse to leave (Which is an option) or get along with the locals.

"Palestine" is a fancy name for the Syrian islamists that were living in the territory before it was succeeded by the British, and later given statehood by the United Nations to "Israel".

Seeing as the area of Palestine, or as you said, "Philistine" was presided over Syria, yeah.. Don't need one.

This being said... Modern Palestine = Jordan/Syrian/Iranian (mostly) extremist muslims (Gaza Strip and Heights).

Once again... Syria. I say Jordan because of the northern Heights, I say Iranian because of the eastern Islamists, and I should* have also said Egyptian Islamists, to the south. This is only to name off a few of the bordering nations.

They may claim statehood now.. But the fact is that they never have been to begin with.

United Nations can agree with what they like. Doesn't make it fact, and sure as hell doesn't make me accept it. Were all entitled to our opinions, some opinions are better than others, who can back it up with actual reasoning.

[Triumvirate of Mars]

Correction: Jordan to the east, Lebanon to the north as well as Syria, Egypt & Saudi Arabia to the south.

[Neu California]

Er, your quoting is so bad that I can't make heads or tails of what you're saying, so I can't really respond (though, I did notice that you didn't source your claims that I asked for a source for). Please try again.

Edit: I'll respond to one point, just because it's too easy

United Nations can agree with what they like. Doesn't make it fact, and sure as hell doesn't make me accept it. Were all entitled to our opinions, some opinions are better than others, who can back it up with actual reasoning.

Reasoning and evidence. You have yet to provide the latter, and all you've done in regards to the former is guilt-slinging

[Triumvirate of Mars]

Er, your quoting is so bad that I can't make heads or tails of what you're saying, so I can't really respond (though, I did notice that you didn't source your claims that I asked for a source for). Please try again.

Your attempted trolling and refusal to use common sense is lacking. Please try again.

Thanks.

[Neu California]

Er, your quoting is so bad that I can't make heads or tails of what you're saying, so I can't really respond (though, I did notice that you didn't source your claims that I asked for a source for). Please try again.

Your attempted trolling and refusal to use common sense is lacking. Please try again.

Thanks.

Allow me to quote the sticky about trollnaming and see if you see the problem with the above quote:

The moderators have decided to add a new violation category, trollnaming, which can fall under the categories of flaming, flamebaiting, trolling, or simply spam, depending on moderators' interpretation of use. Warnings for trollnaming will be handed out to egregious violators at first, in hopes of curbing this practice. If that fails to get people's attention, the penalties may be applied to anyone using the term "troll" as a substitute for actual debating.

This specifically does NOT apply to Moderation forum reports. If you feel another player is trolling, report it, and we will act as necessary. Note also that the usual "Mods-as-weapons" rules apply. If a player consistently misuses moderation reports to shut another player down, they'll be subject to Mods-as-weapons warnings as well.

Also, my issue was you were quoting yourself, and not the points of mine you were responding to which made it impossible for me to determine what points of mine you were responding to.

Edit: I won't report this digression, because I simply think you don't know the rules, and would rather just let you know that this is against the rules.

[Satla]

Palestine was never a state or recognized as a state. It was English territory. "Palestine" is a term to islamic Syrians/Jordans/Iranians that were living in the area.

If I was living in your house as you were moving in and already paid for it, what would you do?
.

boy, you need to learn some history, and fast...

the name Palestine originates from the philistines pepole......
the term palestina is dated to the greeks, for calling the area in that name.
it's not a term for no ismalic pepole. it's the name given to a land.....
i just feel sorry that you don't know the truth, and like to talk bullshit.

[Jetan]

Well that's sort of the point. They shouldn't be.

Well, they should have accepted the original two state plan then, right?

So? It's just highlighting the amount of support America gives Israel.

It's also making it look like a bad thing, which it's not. The graph has clear political agenda.

Well Amnesty International, the UN, Human Rights Watch and the Israeli High Court tend to disagree with you, amongst others.

If you had read my other posts you would have noticed that I already conceded to having misintrepeted their legality.

I see that post will have great repercussions across the Middle East, causing Israel's retreat from Palestine.

Causing a dominoe effect, turning China into a democratic power, Iran into a peace-leaving nation, and Cuba flying into outer space.

But alas, Poland still cannot into space.