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New forum offense: Trollnaming

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

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Condunum
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Founded: Apr 26, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Condunum » Mon Oct 01, 2012 6:12 pm

The Lone Alliance wrote:This rule is most likely going to back fire horribly on NSG
really, I still cannot see anything good coming from this I mean our board gets trolled easily and if the trolls posts just inside the line then it leaves us with only reporting and hoping moderation locks the thread.

I just hope that there's some other way people will realize that it's a troll thread before we get a 30 page thing of people getting mad trying to 'correct' the troll.


We're easy to troll because for some reason, NSG gets a morbid sense of joy out of it.

Honestly, this rule wouldn't be a problem if people stopped calling people trolls, reported the obvious trolls, and kindly notified the rest that their attitude is likely to cause a problem.
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Forsher
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Postby Forsher » Tue Oct 02, 2012 1:30 am

The Lone Alliance wrote:This rule is most likely going to back fire horribly on NSG
really, I still cannot see anything good coming from this I mean our board gets trolled easily and if the trolls posts just inside the line then it leaves us with only reporting and hoping moderation locks the thread.

I just hope that there's some other way people will realize that it's a troll thread before we get a 30 page thing of people getting mad trying to 'correct' the troll.


I reckon that "Nuke the Terrorists" thread proved exactly why trollnaming's being banned is good. Sure the trhead still got locked but I have no idea why but before the lock it seemed it was locked for derailing which shows that people weren't distracted by calling each other trolls.
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Esternial
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Democratic Socialists

Postby Esternial » Tue Oct 02, 2012 8:51 am

Condunum wrote:
The Lone Alliance wrote:This rule is most likely going to back fire horribly on NSG
really, I still cannot see anything good coming from this I mean our board gets trolled easily and if the trolls posts just inside the line then it leaves us with only reporting and hoping moderation locks the thread.

I just hope that there's some other way people will realize that it's a troll thread before we get a 30 page thing of people getting mad trying to 'correct' the troll.


We're easy to troll because for some reason, NSG gets a morbid sense of joy out of it.

Honestly, this rule wouldn't be a problem if people stopped calling people trolls, reported the obvious trolls, and kindly notified the rest that their attitude is likely to cause a problem.

I agree 100%

The only exception to this rule I might consider would be "don't feed the troll", although there's still plenty of alternatives.

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Condunum
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Ex-Nation

Postby Condunum » Tue Oct 02, 2012 9:19 am

Esternial wrote:
Condunum wrote:
We're easy to troll because for some reason, NSG gets a morbid sense of joy out of it.

Honestly, this rule wouldn't be a problem if people stopped calling people trolls, reported the obvious trolls, and kindly notified the rest that their attitude is likely to cause a problem.

I agree 100%

The only exception to this rule I might consider would be "don't feed the troll", although there's still plenty of alternatives.

I have to agree with Neo on that one, though. Don't feed the troll has proven to be useful. Sometimes.
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Eldritch Love
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Founded: Sep 11, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Eldritch Love » Tue Oct 02, 2012 7:50 pm

Its still ok to apologize if you catch yourself making trollish statements though, right?
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Frisbeeteria
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Founded: Dec 16, 2003
Anarchy

Postby Frisbeeteria » Tue Oct 02, 2012 11:30 pm

Ethel mermania wrote:Moederation should be for when self policing fails.

I've never seen a self-policing post of "STFU you troll" cause a troll to back off. Ever.

What I have seen is erudite posters like Neo Art or Alien Space Bats utterly destroy trollish arguments with carefully crafted debate points. I've seen players who didn't intend to be trolls actually back off and consider those points, and in some cases even reverse themselves publicly. I smile when that happens. It's wonderful.

Calling someone a troll isn't advancing the debate. It's not self-policing. Those who unintentionally troll or have profound personal beliefs that others may consider trollish can hold reasonable discussions, even if they don't reverse themselves. Those who are here to intentionally troll can't be swayed by debate, and no amount of self-policing will convince an intentional troll to stop giggling at his monitor while posting more inflammatory remarks. It's the latter class who tend to meet the Hammer of Mod eventually, and we'd just as soon get to it when they start (via a Moderation report) than wade through 30 pages of trollnaming before somebody bothers to point us towards the thread.

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Neo Art
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Ex-Nation

Postby Neo Art » Wed Oct 03, 2012 6:42 am

Frisbeeteria wrote:erudite posters like Neo Art


Are you calling me black?

(oh I so hope someone gets that)
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Ethel mermania
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Postby Ethel mermania » Wed Oct 03, 2012 6:54 am

Neo Art wrote:
Frisbeeteria wrote:erudite posters like Neo Art


Are you calling me black?

(oh I so hope someone gets that)


nope, went over my head.
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The Emerald Dawn
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Ex-Nation

Postby The Emerald Dawn » Wed Oct 03, 2012 7:14 am

Neo Art wrote:
Frisbeeteria wrote:erudite posters like Neo Art


Are you calling me black?

(oh I so hope someone gets that)

Everquest is dead.

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Gauntleted Fist
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Ex-Nation

Postby Gauntleted Fist » Wed Oct 03, 2012 8:39 am

The Emerald Dawn wrote:
Neo Art wrote:
Are you calling me black?

(oh I so hope someone gets that)

Everquest is dead.

No, it's just free to play.

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The Emerald Dawn
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Ex-Nation

Postby The Emerald Dawn » Wed Oct 03, 2012 8:44 am

Gauntleted Fist wrote:
The Emerald Dawn wrote:Everquest is dead.

No, it's just free to play.

Everquest is dead was a meme at the time of WoW's birth.

Also, is mentioning Poe trollnaming if you say that "I'm not sure if this is Poe or not".

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Gauntleted Fist
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Ex-Nation

Postby Gauntleted Fist » Wed Oct 03, 2012 8:46 am

The Emerald Dawn wrote:Everquest is dead was a meme at the time of WoW's birth.

The reply is a recent joke about how MMOs don't die, they just go free to play. (You know, "Old soldiers never die" etc.)

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Dyakovo
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Ex-Nation

Postby Dyakovo » Wed Oct 03, 2012 8:48 am

Gauntleted Fist wrote:
The Emerald Dawn wrote:Everquest is dead was a meme at the time of WoW's birth.

The reply is a recent joke about how MMOs don't die, they just go free to play. (You know, "Old soldiers never die" etc.)

Shouldn't that be: "old MMOs go free to play, than they die"?
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Neo Art
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Ex-Nation

Postby Neo Art » Wed Oct 03, 2012 9:01 am

Dyakovo wrote:
Gauntleted Fist wrote:The reply is a recent joke about how MMOs don't die, they just go free to play. (You know, "Old soldiers never die" etc.)

Shouldn't that be: "old MMOs go free to play, than they die"?
Yes, I'm looking at you CoH...


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Araraukar
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Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Araraukar » Thu Oct 04, 2012 3:27 am

Ok, I read through this whole thread, so I may come over a bit dense, but I want to be sure of this, so I don't break rules out of ignorance in the future.

I have, previously, on threads that have obviously (well, obvious to me and most people posting on the thread) been flame/trollbaits, posted something to the effect of "I think the OP is just trying to troll, but here's my opinion". Some of the threads have turned into decent discussions, but usually only after the OP (who usually appears to be a puppet made just to post the controversial thread) has abandoned it.

Would that be now against the rules? Not directly calling the person a troll (and certainly not posting anything truly stupid as single-word reply), but stating I feel like they're trying to troll, in the same post that I'm trying to contribute to the discussion/debate at hand?

And I agree with some others that the "don't feed the troll" has been useful in the past, but I understand its function as an off-handed insult as well.
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Frisbeeteria
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Anarchy

Postby Frisbeeteria » Thu Oct 04, 2012 10:32 am

Araraukar wrote:I have, previously, on threads that have obviously (well, obvious to me and most people posting on the thread) been flame/trollbaits, posted something to the effect of "I think the OP is just trying to troll, but here's my opinion". Some of the threads have turned into decent discussions, but usually only after the OP (who usually appears to be a puppet made just to post the controversial thread) has abandoned it.

Like all Moderation requests, it's a judgment call. What we're trying to eliminate here is the use of 'troll' (or even synonyms like 'Poe') as a substitute for debate. If you have a debate point, make it. If you haven't got anything to add, simply don't post. There's almost never a genuine need to say "I think this is a troll post" except in Moderation.

We'd like to eliminate multi-page threads where 90% of the posts are nothing more than trollnaming and snarky comments, rather than any meaningful debate. The attention generated keeps the deliberate trolls coming back time and again. A better anti-trolling solution is to report the troll in Moderation, and/or let the thread die a natural death from lack of responses.

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Rubiconic Crossings V2 rev 1f
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Ex-Nation

Postby Rubiconic Crossings V2 rev 1f » Thu Oct 04, 2012 11:23 am

Frisbeeteria wrote:We'd like to eliminate multi-page threads where 90% of the posts are nothing more than trollnaming and snarky comments, rather than any meaningful debate.


aaaaahhhhahahahahahahahahahahahahhhaaaaa yeah so this is no longer NSG hoorah!

(actually I understand the reasoning...fair enough. However I also think this is a neutering too far...but at the end of the day the decision does not lie with the user community)
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Arcturus Novus
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Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Arcturus Novus » Thu Oct 04, 2012 11:26 am

Can't believe I didn't notice this before. Way to go, moderators!
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Arcturus Novus
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Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Arcturus Novus » Thu Oct 04, 2012 11:28 am

Gauntleted Fist wrote:
The Emerald Dawn wrote:Everquest is dead was a meme at the time of WoW's birth.

The reply is a recent joke about how MMOs don't die, they just go free to play. (You know, "Old soldiers never die" etc.)

Like Runescape.
about me - about my politics - my twitter - my tumblr
Member of the Committee for Proletarian Degeneracy
Des-Bal wrote:If you aren't ashamed of your opinions in 7 years you aren't growing as a person.

The Xenopolis Confederation wrote:I'm sure that as a Nazi, you apply your opposition to banning things in a very consistent and principled mammer.

Kowani wrote:
Loben The 2nd wrote:Victory is not measured by losses. It’s measured by gains.

Said Pyrrhus.

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Jormengand
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Founded: May 22, 2010
Ex-Nation

Postby Jormengand » Thu Oct 04, 2012 11:30 am

Arcturus Novus wrote:
Gauntleted Fist wrote:The reply is a recent joke about how MMOs don't die, they just go free to play. (You know, "Old soldiers never die" etc.)

Like Runescape.

With the exception that A) 90% of it is still pay to play and B) Fris already told us to get back on topic.
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Terraveritas
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Founded: Sep 24, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Terraveritas » Thu Oct 04, 2012 5:57 pm

While I think calling a person "troll" for disagreeing with a point is usually childish nonsense, I do not agree with this rule or any other rule that punishes people for saying or writing anything, regardless of how childish the comment.

Part of the fun of the forums is getting into petty squabbles, and such...

What's next?

Perhaps people should be punished for disagreements altogether? Perhaps there should be a vetting system in place, so that people may only post in threads where they are in agreement with others?

Do what you have to do mods, but I think it is nonsense.

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Felix Terra
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Ex-Nation

Postby Felix Terra » Thu Oct 04, 2012 6:00 pm

Terraveritas wrote:While I think calling a person "troll" for disagreeing with a point is usually childish nonsense, I do not agree with this rule or any other rule that punishes people for saying or writing anything, regardless of how childish the comment.

Part of the fun of the forums is getting into petty squabbles, and such...

What's next?

Perhaps people should be punished for disagreements altogether? Perhaps there should be a vetting system in place, so that people may only post in threads where they are in agreement with others?

Do what you have to do mods, but I think it is nonsense.

The slippery slope argument is a logical fallacy, isn't it?
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Condunum
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Ex-Nation

Postby Condunum » Thu Oct 04, 2012 7:51 pm

Felix Terra wrote:
Terraveritas wrote:While I think calling a person "troll" for disagreeing with a point is usually childish nonsense, I do not agree with this rule or any other rule that punishes people for saying or writing anything, regardless of how childish the comment.

Part of the fun of the forums is getting into petty squabbles, and such...

What's next?

Perhaps people should be punished for disagreements altogether? Perhaps there should be a vetting system in place, so that people may only post in threads where they are in agreement with others?

Do what you have to do mods, but I think it is nonsense.

The slippery slope argument is a logical fallacy, isn't it?


Yes, it is, and this is a good case of it.
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Araraukar
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Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Araraukar » Fri Oct 05, 2012 8:17 am

Frisbeeteria wrote:We'd like to eliminate multi-page threads where 90% of the posts are nothing more than trollnaming and snarky comments, rather than any meaningful debate. The attention generated keeps the deliberate trolls coming back time and again. A better anti-trolling solution is to report the troll in Moderation, and/or let the thread die a natural death from lack of responses.

Ty for the clearer definition. And good luck for the moderator team for getting things under control. :)
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Araraukar's RP reality is Modern Tech solarpunk.

Giovenith wrote:And sorry hun, if you were looking for a forum site where nobody argued, you've come to wrong one.
Araraukar wrote:
Blueflarst wrote:a cosmopolitan hammer
United Massachusetts wrote:Can we all call ourselves "cosmopolitan hammers"?
Us cosmopolitan hammers
Can teach some manners
Often sorely lacking
Hence us attacking
Silly GA spammers

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