Should the U.S Support Netanyahu?

[Rubiconic Crossings V2 rev 1f]

Doesn't matter. Israel is a free, democratic and Western country, while Iran is an islamofascist dictatorship.

I'll use the example I've used before: In my opinion, America is the father of the world. Israel is his 20-year old son, he is intelligent enough so you can give him an electric drill. However, Iran is an annoying 6-year old little sister who has no sense of right or wrong; thus, he cannot be trusted with anything at all, especially not an electric drill, and all decisions must me made for her until she has grown up.

Unfortunately that is not the case at the moment, which is why immidiate invasion of Iran is necessary. Their government simply cannot be trusted to maintain the Iranian people's welfare. Once the West has overthrown the current government and established a modern, secular democracy, can the Iranian people finally govern themselves. Do note that I'm talking about governments, not people. I have nothing against Iranian people, only their government,

A better analogy is that Iran's the bastard child of America. Because, if you'd recall, we created this Iran.

At the behest of us...

[Goodclark]

OH COME ON?!?!?!? Iran is going to get some nukes sooner or later and they are going to bomb someone.

Only one country that has nuclear weapons has actually used them. Having nuclear weapons does not mean you are going to use them.

How many times has Iran threatened Israel?

[Divair]

Only one country that has nuclear weapons has actually used them. Having nuclear weapons does not mean you are going to use them.

How many times has Iran threatened Israel?

How many times has North Korea threatened the US and South Korea?

[Ralkovia]

Difference here is that someone holds North Koreas leash. And I have a feeling that China has very much told its pet to shut up.

North Korea? China's pet?


This isn't the 50's, buddy.

Yeah, it pretty much is. Considering nearly all their food and aid comes from China and China has wordlessly protected North Korea from being bombed back to the stone age, North Korea is very much China's pet. Its only true reason for existence, is to protect China from a direct invasion and serve as a border, much like belgium was for France.

[Strykla]

OH COME ON?!?!?!? Iran is going to get some nukes sooner or later and they are going to bomb someone.

The Iranian nuclear program was started by America in the 1950s, so if anything does happen, then blame lack of American foresight.

Also, Israel has a large nuclear weapons stockpile. Sooner or later they may bomb someone with them.

Surely it makes more sense to make the Middle East a nuclear-weapons free zone, rather than allowing one nation (Israel) a massive advantage in nuclear weaponry?

Actually the whole problem is America's fault. After World War II and the Holocaust, everybody realized Jews needed their own state; not a bad idea. So we stuck them in a place surrounded by people who hate them; bad fucking idea. Though, tbf, Jews were there first. Moses and all that.

So, surrounded by assholes that want to fucking kill you, wouldn't it make sense for you to arm yourself with the best weapons you can get? And wouldn't you not want the assholes to have that same stuff, and you'd even go so far as to destroy that stuff before you have it?

[Divair]

North Korea? China's pet?


This isn't the 50's, buddy.

Yeah, it pretty much is. Considering nearly all their food and aid comes from China and China has wordlessly protected North Korea from being bombed back to the stone age, North Korea is very much China's pet. Its only true reason for existence, is to protect China from a direct invasion and serve as a border, much like belgium was for France.

China is their biggest supporter, but China hardly has an influence in their politics. If China stopped supplying aid, I doubt that NK would start nuking people.

[Soviet Russia Republic]

Only one country that has nuclear weapons has actually used them. Having nuclear weapons does not mean you are going to use them.

How many times has Iran threatened Israel?

A number of times. It's not like nations haven't threaten Iran and have idiotic polices towards it. Regardless, there is a difference between a threat and carrying out an attack on that nation. Many countries threaten each other, all the time.

[Timmy City]

Oustide of out North America, Israel has the most companies on the NASDAQ. And intel I think started up in Israel. We benefit alot from trade with Israel. Many american companies have invested in Israel.

[Ralkovia]

Yeah, it pretty much is. Considering nearly all their food and aid comes from China and China has wordlessly protected North Korea from being bombed back to the stone age, North Korea is very much China's pet. Its only true reason for existence, is to protect China from a direct invasion and serve as a border, much like belgium was for France.

China is their biggest supporter, but China hardly has an influence in their politics. If China stopped supplying aid, I doubt that NK would start nuking people.

No, they'd just invade South Korea. Once two states have nuclear weapons, you reach a state of equilibrium, in which both will fight conventionally or through proxies. You'd be an idiot to think that the Kim's regime would last more than a few minutes without China's continued support. China has final word on a lot in North Korea's foreign policy. They're probably the niggest proponents of "not being blown up."

[Divair]

China is their biggest supporter, but China hardly has an influence in their politics. If China stopped supplying aid, I doubt that NK would start nuking people.

No, they'd just invade South Korea. Once two states have nuclear weapons, you reach a state of equilibrium, in which both will fight conventionally or through proxies. You'd be an idiot to think that the Kim's regime would last more than a few minutes without China's continued support. China has final word on a lot in North Korea's foreign policy. They're probably the niggest proponents of "not being blown up."

NK's government isn't downright mentally unstable. They wouldn't invade fully knowing they'd lose instantly.

[PapaJacky]

North Korea? China's pet?


This isn't the 50's, buddy.

Yeah, it pretty much is. Considering nearly all their food and aid comes from China and China has wordlessly protected North Korea from being bombed back to the stone age, North Korea is very much China's pet. Its only true reason for existence, is to protect China from a direct invasion and serve as a border, much like belgium was for France.

If we must get into the whole Korea situation, no, foreign food aid to North Korea comes primarily from South Korea, U.S. and China.

[Ralkovia]

How many times has Iran threatened Israel?

A number of times. It's not like nations haven't threaten Iran and have idiotic polices towards it. Regardless, there is a difference between a threat and carrying out an attack on that nation. Many countries threaten each other, all the time.

Except, Iran is the only country that has planned to wipe another one off the map. There's a difference between threating a government and threatening to annihilate another people. The Jews already experienced it once, we're not going to experience it again.

[Rubiconic Crossings V2 rev 1f]

Oustide of out North America, Israel has the most companies on the NASDAQ. And intel I think started up in Israel. We benefit alot from trade with Israel. Many american companies have invested in Israel.

Intel has always been a US company.

[Ralkovia]

No, they'd just invade South Korea. Once two states have nuclear weapons, you reach a state of equilibrium, in which both will fight conventionally or through proxies. You'd be an idiot to think that the Kim's regime would last more than a few minutes without China's continued support. China has final word on a lot in North Korea's foreign policy. They're probably the niggest proponents of "not being blown up."

NK's government isn't downright mentally unstable. They wouldn't invade fully knowing they'd lose instantly.

If it means imminent collapse vs. lose to America, they'd invade in a second. Hell, they'd just spam soldiers and overwhelm them. Screw losses.

[Awesomeland]

Yeah, it pretty much is. Considering nearly all their food and aid comes from China and China has wordlessly protected North Korea from being bombed back to the stone age, North Korea is very much China's pet.

BOMBED back in the Stone Age? North Korea already *IS* back in the Stone Age. You can see this on any photo of the Earth taken from space, there's just this big black hole of no-lights where North Korea is. As for being China's pet, China has already expressed a certain degree of private irritation with them and places their own economic interests above North Korea. Economic interests which are negatively affected by North Korea actually starting shit. If push comes to shove, China will write them off.

But as for the original topic? Should we support Netanyahu? I say no. The Israelis have a longstanding track record of doing whatever the hell they want, and to hell with what anyone else thinks of them, anyway. They don't need our support for that. The Iranians aren't actually bothering us. They don't even actually hate us as much as political rhetoric implies they do. It's just talk. We don't need to get involved in this.

[Divair]

NK's government isn't downright mentally unstable. They wouldn't invade fully knowing they'd lose instantly.

If it means imminent collapse vs. lose to America, they'd invade in a second. Hell, they'd just spam soldiers and overwhelm them. Screw losses.

Nonsense. They'd put on a show as if they're doing better than ever. They'd beg half of the planet for aid. Then, if they don't get it, they'd slowly collapse after a decade or two and be assimilated into SK.


But we're getting off topic.

[Ralkovia]

If it means imminent collapse vs. lose to America, they'd invade in a second. Hell, they'd just spam soldiers and overwhelm them. Screw losses.

Nonsense. They'd put on a show as if they're doing better than ever. They'd beg half of the planet for aid. Then, if they don't get it, they'd slowly collapse after a decade or two and be assimilated into SK.


But we're getting off topic.

I don't think so, however do you want to create a secondary thread? Id love to discuss this some more.

[Soviet Russia Republic]

A number of times. It's not like nations haven't threaten Iran and have idiotic polices towards it. Regardless, there is a difference between a threat and carrying out an attack on that nation. Many countries threaten each other, all the time.

Except, Iran is the only country that has planned to wipe another one off the map. There's a difference between threating a government and threatening to annihilate another people. The Jews already experienced it once, we're not going to experience it again.

The whole Israel should be, "wiped off the map", is a misquote. Regardless, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad is not the supreme leader of Iran. North Korea has made threats that are similar to annihilate the people of South Korea. yet has not.

[Divair]

Nonsense. They'd put on a show as if they're doing better than ever. They'd beg half of the planet for aid. Then, if they don't get it, they'd slowly collapse after a decade or two and be assimilated into SK.


But we're getting off topic.

I don't think so, however do you want to create a secondary thread? Id love to discuss this some more.

You can start one if you'd like.

[Darussalam]

I guess now is the time of U.S to stopping their ridiculous support to fascism.

[Ralkovia]

I guess now is the time of U.S to stopping their ridiculous support to fascism.

So cut off support to the Saudi's you mean?

[Darussalam]

I guess now is the time of U.S to stopping their ridiculous support to fascism.

So cut off support to the Saudi's you mean?

No, actually I think about Israel, but cut off support to Saudis Monarchy is good too, I guess, although I doubt Saudi is more fascist than Israel.

[Tigeria]

I'm just worried that a nuclear middle east would bring Global nuclear exchange

[PapaJacky]

I'm just worried that a nuclear middle east would bring Global nuclear exchange

Probably more limited than not. Unless Israel becomes the winy kid that threatens to nuke America if we don't support them or some crazy crap like that.

[Yorkopolis]

Lately, as I'm sure all of you are aware, Benjamin Netanyahu, the Prime Minister of Israel, has been calling on the United States and other Western powers to draw a "red line" to what is acceptable for Iran's nuclear development process.^[1] Of course, Iran claims that it's simply using the nuclear enrichment process for peaceful purposes, such as medical research and nuclear power. As Netanyahu said, "President Obama has said that he is determined to keep Iran from getting nuclear weapons[...]if you're determined to prevent Iran from getting nuclear weapons, it means you'll act before they get nuclear weapons."

I think that the above statement is true. While a full blown invasion of Iran wouldn't be feasible with the state of the American and European economies, the U.S administration needs to set a clear definition for Iran as to what limit they absolutely, undoubtedly cannot pass without U.S and Israeli intervention. The U.S has the full capability to disorient, disrupt and destroy Iranian communications, missile silos and other vital equipment that would be necessary for a counter attack on Israel. To that point, Israel is pretty capable of defending itself from Iranian missile strikes; the biggest problem they would face is Hamas in the Gaza Strip.

I believe that stronger action needs to be taken against Iran's development of nuclear fission, but that a full blown war is obviously not in the best interests of anyone. What do you think, NSG?

-- Notes --

^[1]http://www.latimes.com/news/politics/la-pn-netanyahu-obama-iran-20120916,0,208191.story

Well personally I don't care, but I certainly hope Israel doesn't go to war with Iran, because then we all would be fucked.