Why is abortion so bad?

[Divair]

It deprives a human being of 80 years of life.

What about a spontaneous miscarriage?

Murder. Death by hanging.

[Christian Democrats]

It deprives a fetus of potentially having the potential of having 80 years of life.

Fix'd.

I guess you think that human fetuses belong to a nonhuman species???

It deprives a human being of 80 years of life.

So does not having sex, no?

No. A sperm = genetic material. An ovum = genetic material.

300 million sperm in an ejaculation = 300 million pieces of genetic material

[The Reasonable]

As for me, it's sentience, and even then it's still not a full human being- I don't think there's a point of bringing a fetus almost up to term and then aborting it (exceptions of rape, incest, defects, and life of the mother), and I'm fine with aborting for any reason up to 20-24 weeks in (that's when all the major organs and the nervous system that allows sentience allows to develop). I haven't heard one view that isn't almost completely one or the other on this thread...

EDIT: wrong wording

[Hondorain Empire]

In my opinion it is murder is have an abortion.

I'll state my "rational" on why I say this.

No matter what people say it is a human life GROWING inside of ANOTHER human being. That is the whole purpose of having sex, to reproduce. When a couple decides to have sex it should be based on the decision to have children NOT to satisfy lustful desires.

There is the argument that it is just a fetus, a group of cells that is not fully formed into a baby yet. I argue, if that is the case then that is drawing a line where one is considered a human being or not. Which means I can say; "well since you not fully grown yet, you do not have the rights of a mature, fully grown human being".

As for the argument of rape. If a female is raped and she becomes pregnant then she should have the right to have an abortion. So you are telling me that since a certain individual sexually assaults another that the child of the biological parents has to be terminated because he/she is an embarrassment? A result of a shameful and evil act? An inconvenience? The child should be seen as a blessing, a gift, not as the result of a sin committed by another.

Another argument is that a female should have the right to do what she pleases with her own body. I agree, as long as it does not result in killing an innocent, unborn child. Once a female is pregnant she has the responsibility of the life within her. The life of the mother is automatically FORFEIT in any situation! Why? Because the life of the child comes before the mother regardless of the circumstance.

And as for the "not being able to financially care for the child" excuse well you should thought about that BEFORE having a child which the PURPOSE of having sex in begin with. So deal with it.

[Divair]

I guess you think that human fetuses belong to a nonhuman species???

No, they're part of our species, they're just not human beings.

They're just fetuses.

[Christian Democrats]

It deprives a human being of 80 years of life.

What about a spontaneous miscarriage?

It is a tragedy that someone has died.

Since no one intentionally has brought about the death, there is no one to punish. Nobody has committed a wrongdoing.

[Czechanada]

Fix'd.

I guess you think that human fetuses belong to a nonhuman species???

To be fair, fetuses are not sapient, and do not achieve sentience until late-term.

[Iormund]

I like to quote Torcularis Sepentolaris (sic):

"I don't care if you think it's human or not. If YOU were inside my body, I'd have every right to remove you. If the entire Swedish government is in my body, well, they can get right on the fuck out. Fetuses included."

You see, I'd generally wholeheartedly agree with you, should the Swedish government or anyone else decide to get into my body I'd have no reservations about removing them altogether. The only difference here is that the fetus didn't decide to get there, it went there by someone's else's choice and responsability. Just suppose I went to street and started packing people in my belly, does it gives me the right to kill those people? No it doesn't, they can't leave my body by their own account but they shouldn't be punished for that because it's my fault they're there. I did put them there and thus I should accept my responsability.

[Samuraikoku]

It is a tragedy that someone has died.

Since no one intentionally has brought about the death, there is no one to punish. Nobody has committed a wrongdoing.

It is a tragedy that a fetus didn't get to be born.

Since no one intentionally has brought about the conception (except maybe in rape cases), there is no one to punish. Nobody has committed a wrongdoing (except in cases of rape).

[Christian Democrats]

I guess you think that human fetuses belong to a nonhuman species???

No, they're part of our species, they're just not human beings.

They're just fetuses.

Any member of the species is a human being.

[Oppressorion]

and also, if it cannot survive on it's own (needs to take nutrients from someone else's body) then it is not technically alive.

[Note: I realise that it's probably bad manners to reply to a post this late, and it already has responses, but I was so shocked at this blatant (borderline deliberate) ignorance that I felt I had to. Also note the next part really is what I said aloud after reading, and I'll maybe record it to get across my tone of disbelief at what I was reading.]

No. Just- n-no. No, no. N-no. If I get in an accident and end up on life support, I am not "not technically alive". I am also certain that my liver will die if removed from my body, and is certainly alive now, or I would not be.

Were my head lopped off and put in a Matrix-style pod, I would be dependent on it, and even in similar conditions to the womb and why I object to abortion - yes, the pod's owner does have to spend a great deal of resources maintaining it, and is under no obligation to - it's his pod, and he decides who gets to stay (I realise that this is a very weird analogy that isn't entirely accurate - embryos do not have the fully functional brain of an adult). However, if this owner says "Ah, fuck it, I got enough kids to feed.", then yes, he can do that, but it would be wrong under the objective morals (as objective as a morality system created by subjective men (men as in "mankind") can be) of "Life good, death bad".

I probably went on longer than I should have on that, and doubtless someone will argue with me and then we'll both get in trouble for derailing, but that is how I feel.

[Divair]

No, they're part of our species, they're just not human beings.

They're just fetuses.

Any member of the species is a human being.

Debatable. A being implies sentience, something that a fetus cannot be proven to have.

[Divair]

I am not "not technically alive"

Actually, you are. That's why your family can choose to take you off life support.

[Ifreann]

So if someone offers to have sex with you, you're a killer if you say no. Makes sense.

You lost me.

If you refuse to have sex, you're actively preventing life, which according to you is the same as killing someone.

Let me explain in other terms. In order to have potential life, you need a fertilized egg.

Or an egg and some sperm. Or some sperm and the potential for an egg. Or an egg and the potential for some sperm. And so on.

If you never get around to fertilizing eggs, then there can be no life. Obviously, this isn't that bad, though, since it's just being lazy. Unless you are Christian and consider sloth to be a major sin, but that's another issue.

But if you decide not to have sex, you're preventing life.

Abortion, on the other hand, already has a fertilized egg and destroys it. This prevents the life from ever being born.

So does refusing to have sex.

[Christian Democrats]

I guess you think that human fetuses belong to a nonhuman species???

To be fair, fetuses are not sapient, and do not achieve sentience until late-term.

I don't see why this should matter.

Maybe, it should be legal to kill someone in a temporary induced coma even though he or she eventually will go on living life independently.

[Ifreann]

So does not having sex, no?

No. A sperm = genetic material. An ovum = genetic material.

300 million sperm in an ejaculation = 300 million pieces of genetic material

And by keeping sperm from ova, you're keeping a human being from having 80 years of life.

[Seskany]

I am not "not technically alive"

Actually, you are. That's why your family can choose to take you off life support.

No, you're wrong. Your cells are still dividing, you are still a living thing.
I really fucking wish people would stop making this mistake.

[Avenio]

Maybe, it should be legal to kill someone in a temporary induced coma even though they'll eventually go on living life independently.

There's an enormous developmental difference between a fetus and a fully-grown adult.

[Christian Democrats]

No. A sperm = genetic material. An ovum = genetic material.

300 million sperm in an ejaculation = 300 million pieces of genetic material

And by keeping sperm from ova, you're keeping a human being from having 80 years of life.

How can I keep a human being from having 80 years of life where no human being ever existed?

[Samuraikoku]

What about a spontaneous miscarriage?

Murder. Death by hanging.

"Well Mista Nailbrain, I reckon we should kill 'em. 'Orribly of course."

[Czechanada]

To be fair, fetuses are not sapient, and do not achieve sentience until late-term.

I don't see why this should matter.

Maybe, it should be legal to kill someone in a temporary induced coma even though he or she eventually will go on living life independently.

That coma victim would already have been sapient, and not infringing on bodily sovereignty like a fetus.

[Samuraikoku]

How can I keep a human being from having 80 years of life where no human being ever existed?

Abortion, for one.

[Christian Democrats]

Maybe, it should be legal to kill someone in a temporary induced coma even though they'll eventually go on living life independently.

There's an enormous developmental difference between a fetus and a fully-grown adult.

When did we start discriminating based on development?

Are the developmentally disabled less human than you or I?

[Czechanada]

Actually, you are. That's why your family can choose to take you off life support.

No, you're wrong. Your cells are still dividing, you are still a living thing.
I really fucking wish people would stop making this mistake.

Stop the ethnic cleansing of grass by not walking on lawns and fields then.

[Ifreann]

And by keeping sperm from ova, you're keeping a human being from having 80 years of life.

How can I keep a human being from having 80 years of life where no human being ever existed?

You keep it from existing by not having sex. Thus you keep it from having 80 years of life. Stop killing people and start impregnating as many women as you can.