The 2012 Three Ring Circus AKA The US Presidential Election

[Ifreann]

Obama had done an amazing job for years but its time for new face and i suppose that Romney can lead the country for next years..

its not time for a new face. i like mr obama's face very much.

It's not a deal breaker, but it can't hurt that you could think about Obama during sex and not get turned off.

[Wikkiwallana]

Obama had done an amazing job for years but its time for new face and i suppose that Romney can lead the country for next years..

Uhm, if he's done an amazing job, why is it time for a new face? It's not a position you have to keep fresh and engaging.

[French Union]

Glad to see Governor Mitt Romney releases 2011 tax returns, hopefully it will help.

[Lievatia]

For me, it's a conflict of trust.

Obama may be the "bad evil big government" candidate, but at the least I 'know' he is that candidate.

Romney, meanwhile, could take my classical liberal ideals out for a spin and wreck them trying to make a right turn on red.

[Yumyumsuppertime]

Obama had done an amazing job for years but its time for new face and i suppose that Romney can lead the country for next years..

That's the most asinine reason that I've ever heard for voting against someone.

[Gauthier]

Obama had done an amazing job for years but its time for new face and i suppose that Romney can lead the country for next years..

That's the most asinine reason that I've ever heard for voting against someone.

And not surprisingly, an asinine reason that was conveniently absent during 2004.

[Free Soviets]

Glad to see Governor Mitt Romney releases 2011 tax returns, hopefully it will help.

well, it might help drum up even more support for the buffett rule...

[Lievatia]

Glad to see Governor Mitt Romney releases 2011 tax returns, hopefully it will help.

well, it might help drum up even more support for the buffett rule...

It really isn't that outstanding, particularly when one considers Mitt Romney's taxes have more to do with loopholes than the top rate.

[PapaJacky]

For me, it's a conflict of trust.

Obama may be the "bad evil big government" candidate, but at the least I 'know' he is that candidate.

Romney, meanwhile, could take my classical liberal ideals out for a spin and wreck them trying to make a right turn on red.

Obligatory factcheck, size of Government has shrunk under Obama (600,000 public employees lost since 2009), compared to expanding under both Reagan and Bush by roughly 1.5 million public employees a piece. Spending wise is a similar story, the growth of Federal outlays between 2009-2012 is smaller than it was, on an inflation adjusted basis, when Reagan was in term. The largest nominal expansion of Federal outlays was done by Bush jr, who increased Federal outlays by $1.5 trillion. The Federal deficit, as a result, grew by $1.6 trillion.

[Alien Space Bats]

Does the US exist in some parallel cartoon world or something?

What do you think?

[New Chalcedon]

There are so many reasons I watch Rachel Maddow. From 5:25 on:

The Romney campaign is insisting that those Cayman Islands investments have nothing at all to do with avoiding taxes - maybe his money just likes a nice view?

Which rather brings to mind the image of greenbacks in hammocks, sipping Pina Coladas while being served by an attentive waiter:

[Jocabia]

well, it might help drum up even more support for the buffett rule...

It really isn't that outstanding, particularly when one considers Mitt Romney's taxes have more to do with loopholes than the top rate.

The interesting bit is that if he would have claimed his full deductions, his tax rate would have been closer to 12% which makes his claim that he has never paid less than 13% look more and more like complete and utter bullshit.

Just a few hundred thousand dollar difference in taxes paid, which would be the effect of the 1.75 million dollars in deductions he did not take, shifts his tax burden by around 2%. 137K in taxes is worth about a 1% effective rate to Romney's return, so pretending like he will pay that extra amount in order to up the burden is a pretty clear attempt to show that lower rate than his previous shown return isn't just possible, but it's totally plausible given Romney's relationship to his charity and the Mormon Church.

[The Archregimancy]

On the issue of Romney intentionally underdeclaring his donations to the Mormon Church (which is what the overwhelming majority of his charitable donations consist of, I think) in order to pay a higher tax rate, and thereby meet his campaign claim that he always paid over 13% of his taxes...

If he loses the forthcoming election, he can simply file a revised tax return claiming the full charitable deduction, and the US tax office will be required to repay the relevant amount.

So he'll likely still end up paying the 10.55% anyway.



On a related issue... Does it bother anyone over there on the other side of the Atlantic that the mandatory Mormon tithe to the LDS church (and, let's be fair, any donation to any recognised religious organisation in the USA) is tax deductible?

[Farnhamia]

On the issue of Romney intentionally underdeclaring his donations to the Mormon Church (which is what the overwhelming majority of his charitable donations consist of, I think) in order to pay a higher tax rate, and thereby meet his campaign claim that he always paid over 13% of his taxes...

If he loses the forthcoming election, he can simply file a revised tax return claiming the full charitable deduction, and the US tax office will be required to repay the relevant amount.

So he'll likely still end up paying the 10.55% anyway.



On a related issue... Does it bother anyone over there on the other side of the Atlantic that the mandatory Mormon tithe to the LDS church (and, let's be fair, any donation to any recognised religious organisation in the USA) is tax deductible?

The idea is that if you give away money to a charitable organization to use for organizing charity, you get a tax break. I see no problem with it in principle. Mormons are people, too, Arch.

[Northern Dominus]

On the issue of Romney intentionally underdeclaring his donations to the Mormon Church (which is what the overwhelming majority of his charitable donations consist of, I think) in order to pay a higher tax rate, and thereby meet his campaign claim that he always paid over 13% of his taxes...

If he loses the forthcoming election, he can simply file a revised tax return claiming the full charitable deduction, and the US tax office will be required to repay the relevant amount.

So he'll likely still end up paying the 10.55% anyway.



On a related issue... Does it bother anyone over there on the other side of the Atlantic that the mandatory Mormon tithe to the LDS church (and, let's be fair, any donation to any recognised religious organisation in the USA) is tax deductible?

It bothers me that ANY donation directly to ANY religious institution is considered tax deductible.

[The Steel Magnolia]

On the issue of Romney intentionally underdeclaring his donations to the Mormon Church (which is what the overwhelming majority of his charitable donations consist of, I think) in order to pay a higher tax rate, and thereby meet his campaign claim that he always paid over 13% of his taxes...

If he loses the forthcoming election, he can simply file a revised tax return claiming the full charitable deduction, and the US tax office will be required to repay the relevant amount.

So he'll likely still end up paying the 10.55% anyway.



On a related issue... Does it bother anyone over there on the other side of the Atlantic that the mandatory Mormon tithe to the LDS church (and, let's be fair, any donation to any recognised religious organisation in the USA) is tax deductible?

The idea is that if you give away money to a charitable organization to use for organizing charity, you get a tax break. I see no problem with it in principle. Mormons are people, too, Arch.

I wouldn't really call the Mormon Church a charity, though. Not directly, at any rate.

[Norstal]

I wouldn't really call the Mormon Church a charity, though. Not directly, at any rate.

But they give out free magical underpants.

[Farnhamia]

The idea is that if you give away money to a charitable organization to use for organizing charity, you get a tax break. I see no problem with it in principle. Mormons are people, too, Arch.

I wouldn't really call the Mormon Church a charity, though. Not directly, at any rate.

You wouldn't, nor would I, but I betcha they qualify under IRS rules.

[The Archregimancy]

On the issue of Romney intentionally underdeclaring his donations to the Mormon Church (which is what the overwhelming majority of his charitable donations consist of, I think) in order to pay a higher tax rate, and thereby meet his campaign claim that he always paid over 13% of his taxes...

If he loses the forthcoming election, he can simply file a revised tax return claiming the full charitable deduction, and the US tax office will be required to repay the relevant amount.

So he'll likely still end up paying the 10.55% anyway.



On a related issue... Does it bother anyone over there on the other side of the Atlantic that the mandatory Mormon tithe to the LDS church (and, let's be fair, any donation to any recognised religious organisation in the USA) is tax deductible?

The idea is that if you give away money to a charitable organization to use for organizing charity, you get a tax break. I see no problem with it in principle. Mormons are people, too, Arch.

I wasn't singling out Mormons - it was more the idea of tax donations to a religious institution I was querying; that Romney belongs to a church that requires its members to tithe, and that said mandatory tithing is tax deductible, perhaps adds an interesting twist to the query, but it isn't necessarily the core point.

[Norstal]

The idea is that if you give away money to a charitable organization to use for organizing charity, you get a tax break. I see no problem with it in principle. Mormons are people, too, Arch.

I wasn't singling out Mormons - it was more the idea of tax donations to a religious institution I was querying; that Romney belongs to a church that requires its members to tithe, and that said mandatory tithing is tax deductible, perhaps adds an interesting twist to the query, but it isn't necessarily the core point.

Well, what happens when Mormons or Catholics don't pay the required tithe? Burn their house down?

[Farnhamia]

The idea is that if you give away money to a charitable organization to use for organizing charity, you get a tax break. I see no problem with it in principle. Mormons are people, too, Arch.

I wasn't singling out Mormons - it was more the idea of tax donations to a religious institution I was querying; that Romney belongs to a church that requires its members to tithe, and that said mandatory tithing is tax deductible, perhaps adds an interesting twist to the query, but it isn't necessarily the core point.

I know you weren't, I was playing off Romney's "Corporations are people, too." I don't necessarily agree, but tell me why donations to a church, mandatory or not, shouldn't be deductible.

[Farnhamia]

I wasn't singling out Mormons - it was more the idea of tax donations to a religious institution I was querying; that Romney belongs to a church that requires its members to tithe, and that said mandatory tithing is tax deductible, perhaps adds an interesting twist to the query, but it isn't necessarily the core point.

Well, what happens when Mormons or Catholics don't pay the required tithe? Burn their house down?

They send personable young men in white shirts and dark pants to ring their doorbells. All day. All night.

[The Archregimancy]

The idea is that if you give away money to a charitable organization to use for organizing charity, you get a tax break. I see no problem with it in principle. Mormons are people, too, Arch.

I wouldn't really call the Mormon Church a charity, though. Not directly, at any rate.

In an ideal world, I suppose would make a distinction between the religious institution itself, and a charity run by that institution. So I would have no real problem with someone - regardless of their religious beliefs, or lack thereof, claiming for a donation to the Mormon charity group LDS Humanitarian Services, or a Salvation Army charity shop, or a Catholic-run soup kitchen.

Tax deductions for donations directly to a Church though, for the running of that Church rather than its charity services? That raises an eyebrow. Whether it's practical to make that distinction, I really don't know.


So, if I'm Orthodox or Catholic, and live in the United States, can I claim a tax deduction for a gift sent to the Pope or Patriarch of Moscow?

Apologies if this is a derail; I'm genuinely asking for some informed opinion here rather than attempting to be facetious.

[Northern Dominus]

Well, what happens when Mormons or Catholics don't pay the required tithe? Burn their house down?

They send personable young men in white shirts and dark pants to ring their doorbells. All day. All night.

And unfortunately I doubt "stand your ground" laws would hold up in court if you decided to go and cleanse your front porch with a 10 gauge magnum shotgun

[Farnhamia]

I wouldn't really call the Mormon Church a charity, though. Not directly, at any rate.

In an ideal world, I suppose would make a distinction between the religious institution itself, and a charity run by that institution. So I would have no real problem with someone - regardless of their religious beliefs, or lack thereof, claiming for a donation to the Mormon charity group LDS Humanitarian Services, or a Salvation Army charity shop, or a Catholic-run soup kitchen.

Tax deductions for donations directly to a Church though, for the running of that Church rather than its charity services? That raises an eyebrow. Whether it's practical to make that distinction, I really don't know.


So, if I'm Orthodox or Catholic, and live in the United States, can I claim a tax deduction for a gift sent to the Pope or Patriarch of Moscow?

Apologies if this is a derail; I'm genuinely asking for some informed opinion here rather than attempting to be facetious.

A gift sent to them personally? I'm thinking not, though I can't be sure. Where's Gallo when you actually need him?