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The 2012 Three Ring Circus AKA The US Presidential Election

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

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Who do you want to win?

President Barack Obama
423
42%
Governor Mitt Romney
180
18%
A third party candidate
185
18%
Who cares and/or I ain't American
75
7%
It doesn't matter as the Mods are gonna launch their coup any time now and I for one welcome our Modly overlords
146
14%
 
Total votes : 1009

User avatar
PapaJacky
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Posts: 1478
Founded: Apr 16, 2011
Left-wing Utopia

Postby PapaJacky » Mon Oct 15, 2012 6:18 pm

Alien Space Bats wrote:First, the whole Republican position on tax cuts is a steaming pile of horseshit.

There aren't enough tax deductions in the code to compensate for a 20% across-the-board cut without hitting the big ones: Mortgage interest, State and local taxes, charitable contributions, medical expenses, and certain employee benefits (mostly health insurance and qualified pension contributions).

(Image)

Here's another view of the situation:

(Image)

The problem here is relatively simple: First, for those Americans not currently subject to Federal income tax (but subject to other taxes), reducing the marginal rate in return for slashing deductions can never be anything but a loss. If you have no taxable income at all, and the government eliminates enough of your deductions to expose you to taxation, any marginal rate will result in you paying more in taxes than you did before (because you now have taxable income, whereas before you did not). Consequently for Mitt Romney's hated 47%, his plan will necessarily mean a tax hike.

Second, for all of the talk of how the rich are exploiting the mortgage interest deduction and the deduction for charitable contributions, slashing or even getting rid of those deductions altogether won't cover the reduction in taxes due to a reduction in the marginal rate. If fact, because there's a multiplicative effect between the two (the marginal rate and the value of the tax deduction that shields income from that marginal rate), in many cases wiping out the deduction completely won't make up for the reduction in rates (and this is doubly true when you consider another Republican policy goal - eliminating the alternative minimum tax, which itself limits deductions under the current code). No,if you want to find $5 trillion worth of deductions to cut, you have to go after the ones that create opportunities for the intergenerational transfer of wealth by the working and middle classes.

The biggest are non-taxable employee benefits - especially contributions to pension plans, but also contributions to health care plans. These are an important components when it comes to efforts by the working and middle classes to help their kids do better than they did for a couple of reasons: First, pension contributions often supplement life insurance as a legacy when people die before exhausting such funds. Second, supporting your parents when they're too old to work is a legal requirement in all 50 States when and if your parents can't support themselves; thus, anything which reduces the burden children need to pay to support their parents allows those children to pass along more of their wealth to their children, thus increasing intergenerational social mobility.

Home ownership figures in here as well: For many families, their home will end up becoming one of the biggest assets they have. That asset is a tremendous lever for intergenerational social mobility: It can be remortgaged to help a child pay for college, it can be sold to augment an aging homeowner's retirement savings, and it (or the proceeds from its sale) can be passed along to the next generation as a legacy. Yes, the home mortgage deduction was one of the factors fueling the real estate bubble; but take it away, and both home ownership and intergenerational wealth accumulation drop sharply.

Finally, while the rich may benefit tremendously from charitable contributions, the poor and working classes also benefit from them. After all, who do charities largely serve? Why, the lowest income brackets - the very brackets that will be hit hardest by government cutbacks. If a policy of slashing deductions for charitable contributions at the same time as government expenditures on social causes are cut seems regressive to you, rest assured your not alone: To cut government spending "because charity should be handling that sort of thing" is one level of mean and stupid; but to cut tax deductions for charitable giving - and thus encourage less charity - at the same exact moment as government spending is slashed is yet another level of mean and stupid beyond that. It's doubling down on mean and stupid; indeed, it could almost be thought of as mean and stupid squared.

The counter-argument that this will stimulate investment is disingenuous to the point of being evil. There's nothing in the Romney-Ryan tax plan to encourage such increased investment here in America; indeed, the elimination of tax barriers that prevent American investors from bringing their foreign gains home tax-free (which is what the so-called "territorial" tax system proposed by Romney and Ryan will do) will actually encourage greater overseas investment by the American rich, since no tax barriers exist to making ones money overseas and then bringing it back to enjoy here at home. And with National Right-to-Work as the very least we can expect from the GOP should Romney and Ryan claim the White House, that pressure to move jobs offshore will collapse American wages in record time.

Declining American personal income and the end of the mortgage interest deduction will crash the real estate market for good - and take state and local government down along with it. Urban municipalities will buckle and break under the financial strain; streets will be left with police, lighting, or even maintenance, spurring crime and blight on a scale not seen since the 1960's. George Romney had to deal with riots in Detroit that were largely someone else's fault; Mitt will face riots on a national scale, and he will very much be the one to blame for that.

Of course, when Republicans speak of "loopholes", they are speaking of more than just deductions from income; they are also speaking of tax credits. The biggest credits are, as shown above, those issued for child care, or care of a dependent elderly or disabled person; those issued for college students paying for books and tuition; and those issued for working families with dependent children. Again, each of these credits contributions to social mobility, both intragenerational and intergenerational: These credits subsidize work by parents with children, contributions to our children's education, and our obligations towards elderly and disabled family members. By reducing the cost of the activities they subsidize, they enable earning, saving, and intergenerational support within families; eliminating them will further reduce the opportunity for each generation to boost the next up onto its shoulders in an effort to work towards a better future.

Past generations of Republicans understood this and supported these credits; this generation of Republicans rejects biological evolution as contrary to its faith while embracing the Darwinian notion that each of us is in mortal competition with our fellow citizens as fundamental to its faith, both on our own and on behalf of our children (the right having, in essence, adopted neo-Calvinism as its heresy of choice, thereby confusing the rich with the Elect and believing them and their children destined to build the New Jerusalem - on the bleeding backs of the poor). The new Republican rich understand that it's not enough to win the game today; they must ensure that their children have the wealth and power to lord over society for centuries to come. Their goal is the construction of a lasting plutocracy; to that end, social mobility is their bane.

Finally, eliminating the deduction for State and local taxes is an attack aimed at the "Blue" States, all of which have more government than their "Red" counterparts. Mind you, it's not like the current deduction "subsidizes" big local government in the "Blue" States at the expense of the "Red":

(Image)

No, the idea here is to further undermine government simply for the sake of undermining government - which advances the GOP's Social Darwinian agenda, since government essentially exists to protect the weak and self-restrained among us from the strong and ruthless among us; fancying itself, the latter, Republicans hope to eliminate government in order to feast on their neighbors.


I ran the math a few hours ago, I think the known cost of the estimated tax expenditures that only households making over $200,000 was around <$100b. Until Romney clarifies his shit, it's mathematically impossibru.

User avatar
The Land Fomerly Known as Ligerplace
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 9720
Founded: Jul 25, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby The Land Fomerly Known as Ligerplace » Mon Oct 15, 2012 6:21 pm

PapaJacky wrote:
Alien Space Bats wrote:First, the whole Republican position on tax cuts is a steaming pile of horseshit.

There aren't enough tax deductions in the code to compensate for a 20% across-the-board cut without hitting the big ones: Mortgage interest, State and local taxes, charitable contributions, medical expenses, and certain employee benefits (mostly health insurance and qualified pension contributions).

(Image)

Here's another view of the situation:

(Image)

The problem here is relatively simple: First, for those Americans not currently subject to Federal income tax (but subject to other taxes), reducing the marginal rate in return for slashing deductions can never be anything but a loss. If you have no taxable income at all, and the government eliminates enough of your deductions to expose you to taxation, any marginal rate will result in you paying more in taxes than you did before (because you now have taxable income, whereas before you did not). Consequently for Mitt Romney's hated 47%, his plan will necessarily mean a tax hike.

Second, for all of the talk of how the rich are exploiting the mortgage interest deduction and the deduction for charitable contributions, slashing or even getting rid of those deductions altogether won't cover the reduction in taxes due to a reduction in the marginal rate. If fact, because there's a multiplicative effect between the two (the marginal rate and the value of the tax deduction that shields income from that marginal rate), in many cases wiping out the deduction completely won't make up for the reduction in rates (and this is doubly true when you consider another Republican policy goal - eliminating the alternative minimum tax, which itself limits deductions under the current code). No,if you want to find $5 trillion worth of deductions to cut, you have to go after the ones that create opportunities for the intergenerational transfer of wealth by the working and middle classes.

The biggest are non-taxable employee benefits - especially contributions to pension plans, but also contributions to health care plans. These are an important components when it comes to efforts by the working and middle classes to help their kids do better than they did for a couple of reasons: First, pension contributions often supplement life insurance as a legacy when people die before exhausting such funds. Second, supporting your parents when they're too old to work is a legal requirement in all 50 States when and if your parents can't support themselves; thus, anything which reduces the burden children need to pay to support their parents allows those children to pass along more of their wealth to their children, thus increasing intergenerational social mobility.

Home ownership figures in here as well: For many families, their home will end up becoming one of the biggest assets they have. That asset is a tremendous lever for intergenerational social mobility: It can be remortgaged to help a child pay for college, it can be sold to augment an aging homeowner's retirement savings, and it (or the proceeds from its sale) can be passed along to the next generation as a legacy. Yes, the home mortgage deduction was one of the factors fueling the real estate bubble; but take it away, and both home ownership and intergenerational wealth accumulation drop sharply.

Finally, while the rich may benefit tremendously from charitable contributions, the poor and working classes also benefit from them. After all, who do charities largely serve? Why, the lowest income brackets - the very brackets that will be hit hardest by government cutbacks. If a policy of slashing deductions for charitable contributions at the same time as government expenditures on social causes are cut seems regressive to you, rest assured your not alone: To cut government spending "because charity should be handling that sort of thing" is one level of mean and stupid; but to cut tax deductions for charitable giving - and thus encourage less charity - at the same exact moment as government spending is slashed is yet another level of mean and stupid beyond that. It's doubling down on mean and stupid; indeed, it could almost be thought of as mean and stupid squared.

The counter-argument that this will stimulate investment is disingenuous to the point of being evil. There's nothing in the Romney-Ryan tax plan to encourage such increased investment here in America; indeed, the elimination of tax barriers that prevent American investors from bringing their foreign gains home tax-free (which is what the so-called "territorial" tax system proposed by Romney and Ryan will do) will actually encourage greater overseas investment by the American rich, since no tax barriers exist to making ones money overseas and then bringing it back to enjoy here at home. And with National Right-to-Work as the very least we can expect from the GOP should Romney and Ryan claim the White House, that pressure to move jobs offshore will collapse American wages in record time.

Declining American personal income and the end of the mortgage interest deduction will crash the real estate market for good - and take state and local government down along with it. Urban municipalities will buckle and break under the financial strain; streets will be left with police, lighting, or even maintenance, spurring crime and blight on a scale not seen since the 1960's. George Romney had to deal with riots in Detroit that were largely someone else's fault; Mitt will face riots on a national scale, and he will very much be the one to blame for that.

Of course, when Republicans speak of "loopholes", they are speaking of more than just deductions from income; they are also speaking of tax credits. The biggest credits are, as shown above, those issued for child care, or care of a dependent elderly or disabled person; those issued for college students paying for books and tuition; and those issued for working families with dependent children. Again, each of these credits contributions to social mobility, both intragenerational and intergenerational: These credits subsidize work by parents with children, contributions to our children's education, and our obligations towards elderly and disabled family members. By reducing the cost of the activities they subsidize, they enable earning, saving, and intergenerational support within families; eliminating them will further reduce the opportunity for each generation to boost the next up onto its shoulders in an effort to work towards a better future.

Past generations of Republicans understood this and supported these credits; this generation of Republicans rejects biological evolution as contrary to its faith while embracing the Darwinian notion that each of us is in mortal competition with our fellow citizens as fundamental to its faith, both on our own and on behalf of our children (the right having, in essence, adopted neo-Calvinism as its heresy of choice, thereby confusing the rich with the Elect and believing them and their children destined to build the New Jerusalem - on the bleeding backs of the poor). The new Republican rich understand that it's not enough to win the game today; they must ensure that their children have the wealth and power to lord over society for centuries to come. Their goal is the construction of a lasting plutocracy; to that end, social mobility is their bane.

Finally, eliminating the deduction for State and local taxes is an attack aimed at the "Blue" States, all of which have more government than their "Red" counterparts. Mind you, it's not like the current deduction "subsidizes" big local government in the "Blue" States at the expense of the "Red":

(Image)

No, the idea here is to further undermine government simply for the sake of undermining government - which advances the GOP's Social Darwinian agenda, since government essentially exists to protect the weak and self-restrained among us from the strong and ruthless among us; fancying itself, the latter, Republicans hope to eliminate government in order to feast on their neighbors.


I ran the math a few hours ago, I think the known cost of the estimated tax expenditures that only households making over $200,000 was around <$100b. Until Romney clarifies his shit, it's mathematically impossibru.


He will sort out the details through the use of a bipartisan meeting with members of both parties. :geek:

Details aren't for peons.
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Neo Art wrote:
The Land Fomerly Known as Ligerplace wrote:Ironic ain't it, now there really IS 47% of the country that feels like victims.

........fuck it, you win the internet.

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Cannot think of a name
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New York Times Democracy

Postby Cannot think of a name » Mon Oct 15, 2012 6:29 pm

New Chalcedon wrote:Remember the op-ed where Paul Ryan - following in the footsteps of his inspiration, the sainted Ayn Rand (until she became politically inconvenient) - took the chance for a photo-op at the local soup kitchen?

Turn out that it's....ahh, got some problems.

First, the pan he "scrubbed" was already clean.

This, not a big a problem for me because it's entirely common. I've don't home improvement shows, you know the ones where the homeowner is shown all these techniques...you see the home owner with the designer painting a small patch of wall, but if you look behind them, the other wall is already painted...I did that. They film people doing their bit for the camera and then shuffle them off to film some other nonsense and we finish the work. Photo ops, shows, they take a lot of time and coordination to look spontaneous and good. So posing him doing something that has already been done, that's par for the course.
New Chalcedon wrote:Second, neither he nor his staff let the volunteers at the soup kitchen know he was coming.

Dick move, to be sure. But just as likely to be a product of his security team as anything else.
New Chalcedon wrote:Third, the soup kitchen had already shut down for the day when he got there - basically, it was already closed when he "showed up to help".

I would do this if I was organizing this photo op. It's easier, and I control the 'set' better. It is less earnest, but more people will see the photos in the context I want them to than people will know how the sausage is made. For those who do, either they weren't voting for me anyway (yo) or they'll rely on good ol' fashion cynicism.
New Chalcedon wrote:
Fourth, the head of the charity is furious that Paul Ryan stopped by - and not because of any opinions he held about Mr. Ryan:

Brian J. Antal, president of the Mahoning County St. Vincent De Paul Society, said that he was not contacted by the Romney campaign ahead of the Saturday morning visit by Ryan, who stopped by the soup kitchen after a town hall at Youngstown State University.

“We’re a faith-based organization; we are apolitical because the majority of our funding is from private donations,” Antal said in a phone interview Monday afternoon. “It’s strictly in our bylaws not to do it. They showed up there, and they did not have permission. They got one of the volunteers to open up the doors.”
...
Antal, a self-described independent voter, said that he “can’t fault my volunteers” for letting the campaign in but said that the campaign “didn’t go through the proper channels.”

He noted that the soup kitchen relies on funding from private individuals who might reconsider their support if it appears that the charity is favoring one political candidate over another.

“I can’t afford to lose funding from these private individuals,” he said. “If this was the Democrats, I’d have the same exact problem.”


THAT is the strongest case for a dick move, having jeopardized their ability to function. That's some bullshit right there.
New Chalcedon wrote:So, it appears that the Romney campaign can't even arrange a photo-op competently. And they think they can run the White House? The mind boggles that such a politically-inept bunch of fools think they can run the toughest political job in the world.

Well, for the most part this was par for the course. Where the real 'shock,' as it is, comes from the contempt for the people running the place and lack of concern for their actions. To assume that their presence itself is a gift without any notion of what the consequences are or that they might have to actually ask permission to use a place. That's right in the way that they see the world and is exactly why they should not get anyone's vote.
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New England and The Maritimes
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Ex-Nation

Postby New England and The Maritimes » Mon Oct 15, 2012 8:02 pm

All aboard the Love Train. Choo Choo, honeybears. I am Ininiwiyaw Rocopurr:Get in my bed, you perfect human being.
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The Land Fomerly Known as Ligerplace
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Ex-Nation

Postby The Land Fomerly Known as Ligerplace » Mon Oct 15, 2012 8:19 pm



Paul Ryan

Rule 63 for Sarah Palin
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Neo Art wrote:
The Land Fomerly Known as Ligerplace wrote:Ironic ain't it, now there really IS 47% of the country that feels like victims.

........fuck it, you win the internet.

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Arkania 5
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Ex-Nation

Postby Arkania 5 » Mon Oct 15, 2012 8:23 pm

Last edited by Arkania 5 on Mon Oct 15, 2012 8:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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New Chalcedon
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Ex-Nation

Postby New Chalcedon » Mon Oct 15, 2012 8:34 pm

Fuck it all. Let the world burn - there's no way roaches could do a worse job of being decent than we have.

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Norstal
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Ex-Nation

Postby Norstal » Mon Oct 15, 2012 8:44 pm


What the hell happened in America that turned the most powerful people into James Bond villains.
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Northern Dominus
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Ex-Nation

Postby Northern Dominus » Tue Oct 16, 2012 4:02 am

The Land Fomerly Known as Ligerplace wrote:


Paul Ryan

Rule 63 for Sarah Palin
I keep telling people the exact same thing! Were it not for seeing Palin and Ryan in two different places in relatively short time frames I'd swear up and down that Palin got a sex-change operation and a new identity at some points in the intervening 4 years between now and 2008.

Of course if that's the case, the parody wing of the pornography industry is going to have an even bigger field day than they did in 2008.
Last edited by Northern Dominus on Tue Oct 16, 2012 4:04 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Aryavartha
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Ex-Nation

Postby Aryavartha » Tue Oct 16, 2012 8:39 am

Romney campaign team is :palm:

when somebody puts out this

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/20 ... in-new-ad/

"I want to talk to you about women," Johansson says at the beginning of the spot, followed by Washington saying, "And about Mitt Romney."

"Mitt Romney is for ending funding to Planned Parenthood," Longoria says, with Johansson chiming in, "Including cancer screenings."

The ad continues:

Washington: "He said he'd overturn Roe v. Wade."

Johansson: "We have Republicans trying to redefine rape."

Longoria: "Trying to force women to undergo invasive ultrasounds."

Johansson: "If you think that this election won't affect you and your life, think again."

Washington: "Vote."

Longoria: "Vote."

Johansson: "Vote for Barack Obama."


their response is

"Misleading political attacks will not change President Obama's failed record," Romney campaign spokeswoman Amanda Henneberg wrote in response to the MoveOn.org ad. "His policies have made it harder for women across the country to start businesses, get good jobs, or see their children able to go to college and get started with their lives. Mitt Romney will lead us to a real recovery so that women – and all Americans – can succeed and live the American Dream."


A COMPLETE NON-ANSWER :shock:

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The Black Forrest
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Postby The Black Forrest » Tue Oct 16, 2012 8:46 am

Aryavartha wrote:Romney campaign team is :palm:

when somebody puts out this

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/20 ... in-new-ad/

"I want to talk to you about women," Johansson says at the beginning of the spot, followed by Washington saying, "And about Mitt Romney."

"Mitt Romney is for ending funding to Planned Parenthood," Longoria says, with Johansson chiming in, "Including cancer screenings."

The ad continues:

Washington: "He said he'd overturn Roe v. Wade."

Johansson: "We have Republicans trying to redefine rape."

Longoria: "Trying to force women to undergo invasive ultrasounds."

Johansson: "If you think that this election won't affect you and your life, think again."

Washington: "Vote."

Longoria: "Vote."

Johansson: "Vote for Barack Obama."


their response is

"Misleading political attacks will not change President Obama's failed record," Romney campaign spokeswoman Amanda Henneberg wrote in response to the MoveOn.org ad. "His policies have made it harder for women across the country to start businesses, get good jobs, or see their children able to go to college and get started with their lives. Mitt Romney will lead us to a real recovery so that women – and all Americans – can succeed and live the American Dream."


A COMPLETE NON-ANSWER :shock:


Well? It's a telling answer actually.

If we can't trust women with the decision of abortion, then how can we trust them with running businesses or the responsibilities involved with "good" jobs.
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Frisivisia
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Postby Frisivisia » Tue Oct 16, 2012 8:50 am

The Black Forrest wrote:
Aryavartha wrote:Romney campaign team is :palm:

when somebody puts out this

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/20 ... in-new-ad/



their response is



A COMPLETE NON-ANSWER :shock:


Well? It's a telling answer actually.

If we can't trust women with the decision of abortion, then how can we trust them with running businesses or the responsibilities involved with "good" jobs.

TL;DR Version:

Obama Camp: You're anti-choice!
Romney Camp: Well, the economy hasn't reached bubble-level again!
Everyone: The fuck?
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Northern Dominus
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Postby Northern Dominus » Tue Oct 16, 2012 8:55 am

Frisivisia wrote:
The Black Forrest wrote:
Well? It's a telling answer actually.

If we can't trust women with the decision of abortion, then how can we trust them with running businesses or the responsibilities involved with "good" jobs.

TL;DR Version:

Obama Camp: You're anti-choice!
Romney Camp: Well, the economy hasn't reached bubble-level again!
Everyone: The fuck?
Except you forgot the inevitable reaction Everyone

Everyone: The fuck?
Tea Party: OBAMA KILLS BABIES! AND IS AN EVIL SOCIALIST KEEPING THE ECONOMY AND US DOWN!

Unfortunately we have to factor in the dumb but very loud minority these days.
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New England and The Maritimes
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Postby New England and The Maritimes » Tue Oct 16, 2012 10:09 am

Northern Dominus wrote:
Frisivisia wrote:TL;DR Version:

Obama Camp: You're anti-choice!
Romney Camp: Well, the economy hasn't reached bubble-level again!
Everyone: The fuck?
Except you forgot the inevitable reaction Everyone

Everyone: The fuck?
Tea Party: OBAMA KILLS BABIES! AND IS AN EVIL SOCIALIST KEEPING THE ECONOMY AND US DOWN!

Unfortunately we have to factor in the dumb but very loud minority these days.

PRESIDENT OBAMA IS A GOVERNMENT NIG-ahhh...
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Ashmoria
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Left-Leaning College State

Postby Ashmoria » Tue Oct 16, 2012 10:54 am

yay! the supreme court has refused to step into the ohio early voting case. last weekend early voting stands!

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/huff-wire ... ly-voting/
whatever

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New Chalcedon
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Postby New Chalcedon » Tue Oct 16, 2012 10:57 am

Ashmoria wrote:yay! the supreme court has refused to step into the ohio early voting case. last weekend early voting stands!

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/huff-wire ... ly-voting/


Good news indeed, given the margins by which Team Blue is leading in early-voting polls.
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Ashmoria
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Founded: Mar 19, 2004
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Ashmoria » Tue Oct 16, 2012 11:05 am

New Chalcedon wrote:
Ashmoria wrote:yay! the supreme court has refused to step into the ohio early voting case. last weekend early voting stands!

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/huff-wire ... ly-voting/


Good news indeed, given the margins by which Team Blue is leading in early-voting polls.

yeah. the polls are getting scary. we dont need any shenannigans from the republicans.
whatever

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New Chalcedon
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Postby New Chalcedon » Tue Oct 16, 2012 11:19 am

Ashmoria wrote:
New Chalcedon wrote:
Good news indeed, given the margins by which Team Blue is leading in early-voting polls.

yeah. the polls are getting scary. we dont need any shenannigans from the republicans.


Well, consider this: the three most crucial swing States are generally considered to be Ohio, Virginia and Florida. New Hampshire's also swingy, but it's a low-value target (4 EVs). North Carolina's a big prize, but it's still got a prnounced Republican tilt, and there aren't any interesting races happening downticket to interest outside groups. Colorado's only worth 9 EVs. Nevada's got a blue tinge these days - as do Wisconsin and Michigan.

So, at any rate, it's down to OH, VA and FL. Sure, Team Obama only needs one of these States (assuming the chips fall largley where expected elsewhere) - but Democrats are locked in tight Senate races downticket in all three. More importantly, all 3 have Republican Governors, Republican legislatures and Republican Secretaries of States. And two of the three (OH and FL) have already engaged in shenanigans - OH's ongoing struggles with the judiciary over Jon Husted's....unique understanding of the purpose of his office, and Governor Skeletor (R-FL) engaging in extensive (and illegal) voter-suppression efforts, not to mention all but criminalising voter registration drives.

So, yeah - in 2 of the three most important States, Republican state-level officials are busily stacking the deck for Mitt Romney. Comforting thought, eh?
Fuck it all. Let the world burn - there's no way roaches could do a worse job of being decent than we have.

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Felix Terra
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Postby Felix Terra » Tue Oct 16, 2012 11:33 am

New Chalcedon wrote:
Ashmoria wrote:yeah. the polls are getting scary. we dont need any shenannigans from the republicans.


Well, consider this: the three most crucial swing States are generally considered to be Ohio, Virginia and Florida. New Hampshire's also swingy, but it's a low-value target (4 EVs). North Carolina's a big prize, but it's still got a prnounced Republican tilt, and there aren't any interesting races happening downticket to interest outside groups. Colorado's only worth 9 EVs. Nevada's got a blue tinge these days - as do Wisconsin and Michigan.

So, at any rate, it's down to OH, VA and FL. Sure, Team Obama only needs one of these States (assuming the chips fall largley where expected elsewhere) - but Democrats are locked in tight Senate races downticket in all three. More importantly, all 3 have Republican Governors, Republican legislatures and Republican Secretaries of States. And two of the three (OH and FL) have already engaged in shenanigans - OH's ongoing struggles with the judiciary over Jon Husted's....unique understanding of the purpose of his office, and Governor Skeletor (R-FL) engaging in extensive (and illegal) voter-suppression efforts, not to mention all but criminalising voter registration drives.

So, yeah - in 2 of the three most important States, Republican state-level officials are busily stacking the deck for Mitt Romney. Comforting thought, eh?

Ohio always votes for the winner, though.
why are you looking at a post from 2012 go home you're drunk

East Apikai is my main nation nowadays

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Aryavartha
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Postby Aryavartha » Tue Oct 16, 2012 11:42 am

Hilary says 'she takes responsibility' for Benghazi, apparently to shield Obama from criticism.

This is a wrong move (as much as I admire Hilary for taking one for the team, the Clintons are probably the bestest buddies Obama can ever have).

This is a non-scandal. By 'taking responsibility', it will only give more for GOP to talk (piss in the wind is more like it actually).

They should just say "Romney is responsible for the Benghazi attack". When asked how can somebody not in office be responsible for this, cite them the poll that shows 15% believing Romney was more responsible for OBL killing.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/com ... _blog.html

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Felix Terra
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Postby Felix Terra » Tue Oct 16, 2012 11:44 am

Aryavartha wrote:Hilary says 'she takes responsibility' for Benghazi, apparently to shield Obama from criticism.

This is a wrong move (as much as I admire Hilary for taking one for the team, the Clintons are probably the bestest buddies Obama can ever have).

This is a non-scandal. By 'taking responsibility', it will only give more for GOP to talk (piss in the wind is more like it actually).

They should just say "Romney is responsible for the Benghazi attack". When asked how can somebody not in office be responsible for this, cite them the poll that shows 15% believing Romney was more responsible for OBL killing.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/com ... _blog.html

Either I misunderstood it or...

Gah...
why are you looking at a post from 2012 go home you're drunk

East Apikai is my main nation nowadays


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Felix Terra
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Postby Felix Terra » Tue Oct 16, 2012 11:55 am

why are you looking at a post from 2012 go home you're drunk

East Apikai is my main nation nowadays

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Divair
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Postby Divair » Tue Oct 16, 2012 12:01 pm


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Aryavartha
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Postby Aryavartha » Tue Oct 16, 2012 12:11 pm

dammit thats addictive...i just spent 5 mins chasing that thing.. :oops:

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