Bush Administration ignored American Al Qaeda threat

[Yewhohohopia]

But does it really matter? Really?

[Not Safe For Work]

Another ridiculous politically partisan conspiracy theorist .

Indeed, the US gets literally millions of bits of data regarding impending threats against the homeland.

moreover, if there is a conspiracy theory it was clinton gutting the intel budget and one of his idiot bureaucrats -- jamie gorelick -- who could be considered criminally negligent in putting up a wall between the CIA and FBI that undermined the ability of these agencies to communicate actionable intel about potential terrorist threats.

side note regarding gorelick -- if you ever see this disaster approaching --- run away , run fast. After screwing up the intel community, she went on to fannie mae and screwed up the housing industry running that outfit (after pocketing tens of millions of tax payer dollars)

but getting back to the conspiracy nonsense -- there was pretty much nothing that clinton or bush could have done in the pre 9/11, post cold war environment that led to the attack.

moreover, the attack was committed by 19 automatons who spent less than one million to plan and execute the attack which was put into operational phase during the CLINTON administration.

in sum, give it a rest dude ---- obama has raised the deficit over $6 trillion in the last 3 years and we have poverty levels at their highest level since the early 60s with more Americans as a percentage of population not working. $50 trillion in unfunded debt and American manufacturing declining last month with GM losing money hand over fist while they are still building more plants and selling more cars in china than the USA.

But no one has flown a passenger plane into a major city landscape and killed a couple of thousand people.

[Ashmoria]

But does it really matter? Really?

yes and no.

its good to have an understanding of how things happened.

it doesnt change anything.

[Not Safe For Work]

Also, conspiracy theory: the Bush administration deliberately allowing the attack to occur so as to provide a legitimate reason for a 'war on terror'.

I'm not normally fond of conspiracy theories... but the fact that 9/11 ended up justifying war in Iraq, of all places...

[Yewhohohopia]

But does it really matter? Really?

yes and no.

its good to have an understanding of how things happened.

it doesnt change anything.

If it doesn't change anything, I'm not sure having a pretend understanding of how things happened (because really that's all this is) is all that handy.

[Ashmoria]

yes and no.

its good to have an understanding of how things happened.

it doesnt change anything.

If it doesn't change anything, I'm not sure having a pretend understanding of how things happened (because really that's all this is) is all that handy.

*shrug*

its what we do, eh? its what the study of history is all about.

[Not Safe For Work]

yes and no.

its good to have an understanding of how things happened.

it doesnt change anything.

If it doesn't change anything, I'm not sure having a pretend understanding of how things happened (because really that's all this is) is all that handy.

If nothing else, it's a cautionary tale. Since 9/11, I'd say intelligence handling has probably been more careful, if not more rigorous - because people are more aware that some guy a few thousand miles away making threats actually really CAN hurt us, collectively.

[Genivaria]

It was 11 years ago and Bin Laden is dead. Why the fuck are we still talking about this?

[Yewhohohopia]

its what we do, eh? its what the study of history is all about.

Mmm...

[Not Safe For Work]

It was 11 years ago and Bin Laden is dead. Why the fuck are we still talking about this?

Because this thread isn't actually about 9/11 or Bin Laden. It's about how an administration handled information.

[Ashmoria]

It was 11 years ago and Bin Laden is dead. Why the fuck are we still talking about this?

because it is still the worst day in many people's lives and we/they have a compulsion to talk about it until we understand how and why it happened.

[Samuraikoku]

It was 11 years ago and Bin Laden is dead.

Or is he? ... (*DUN DUN DUUUUUUUUUUUUNNNNNNN*)

Why the fuck are we still talking about this?

It's that time of the year.

[Yewhohohopia]

If nothing else, it's a cautionary tale.

Erm, not really. I'm pretty sure if anyone was told "yo Pres, there's some stuff happening in a place, you want to focus all of your efforts on doing that instead of doing things like concentrating on the economy", they'd be all "hells naw I have an election to win, plus even if 10,000 people die, what's that, really? A season's deaths from the uninsured? A while on the road? Nope do not care, sort it out.".

Since 9/11, I'd say intelligence handling has probably been more careful, if not more rigorous - because people are more aware that some guy a few thousand miles away making threats actually really CAN hurt us, collectively.

Yeah you don't actually know that, though. Everyone in the intelligence community might've just been flustered. Maybe there's information overload. Who even knows?

[Choronzon]

But does it really matter? Really?

Yeah, lets just let gross negligence slide because its politically inconvenient. Doesn't really matter lolol

[Not Safe For Work]

If nothing else, it's a cautionary tale.

Erm, not really. I'm pretty sure if anyone was told "yo Pres, there's some stuff happening in a place, you want to focus all of your efforts on doing that instead of doing things like concentrating on the economy", they'd be all "hells naw I have an election to win, plus even if 10,000 people die, what's that, really? A season's deaths from the uninsured? A while on the road? Nope do not care, sort it out.".

Since 9/11, I'd say intelligence handling has probably been more careful, if not more rigorous - because people are more aware that some guy a few thousand miles away making threats actually really CAN hurt us, collectively.

Yeah you don't actually know that, though. Everyone in the intelligence community might've just been flustered. Maybe there's information overload. Who even knows?

While I agree that the actual casualty figures were practically nothing - what's the claim, a lack of medical insurance kills TEN times as many people EVERY year? - the simple fact is that the threat was clearly not taken seriously before 9/11, and that post 9/11 terror violence has been pretty well limited, at least, here in the US.

The conclusion that this at least served the purpose of strengthening either the methodology of intelligence assessment, or the weight attached to it, seems more than reasonable and supported by the evidence.

[Araraukar]

It was 11 years ago and Bin Laden is dead. Why the fuck are we still talking about this?

Because some people are looking for ways to take the current USA presidential election debate outside the allowed thread(s), and use stuff like this to avoid the mod banhammer.

[Yewhohohopia]

But does it really matter? Really?

Yeah, lets just let gross negligence slide because its politically inconvenient. Doesn't really matter lolol

Alright, for starters, this isn't really a matter of politics to me.

Secondly, doing or not doing anything when you're the President of what remains the most important and powerful nation in the world ('hurr no coz Chi-' 'no, fuck off') is going to have massive consequences. If you scrutinised every day of any President's reign, there are probably vaguely 'grossly negligent' things being done all the time, because people only have so much energy.

Thirdly, what's this all for? "You fucked up on 9/11, you're going to jail"? What a petty thing to send someone to jail over, when there are far more serious allegations of war crimes that are going to go unaddressed if they were brought up fleetingly in any 9/11 trial, on the grounds that's already been raked over. Fuck that noise.

[Choronzon]

Yeah, lets just let gross negligence slide because its politically inconvenient. Doesn't really matter lolol

Alright, for starters, this isn't really a matter of politics to me.

Secondly, doing or not doing anything when you're the President of what remains the most important and powerful nation in the world ('hurr no coz Chi-' 'no, fuck off') is going to have massive consequences. If you scrutinised every day of any President's reign, there are probably vaguely 'grossly negligent' things being done all the time, because people only have so much energy.

The fact that you're chalking something like this to a run of the mill fuck up speaks volumes.

Thirdly, what's this all for? "You fucked up on 9/11, you're going to jail"? What a petty thing to send someone to jail over, when there are far more serious allegations of war crimes that are going to go unaddressed if they were brought up fleetingly in any 9/11 trial, on the grounds that's already been raked over. Fuck that noise.

Its about setting the record straight, not throwing someone in jail.

[Araraukar]

because it is still the worst day in many people's lives and we/they have a compulsion to talk about it until we understand how and why it happened.

Sure, I remember where I was when it happened. I also remember where I was when I first heard the news about Chernobyl. Or Fukushima. Or a few of the major earthquakes that have happened in my lifetime. Or the Pinatubo eruption. Or the sinking of MS Estonia. Or a few school shootings. Or when I heard my friend had died.

Of all of those I'd rank the day I heard my friend had died as the worst day in my life so far.

I think the American fascination and horrified interest in the 9/11 terrorist attack was that it happened on USA soil (or, well, a few hundred feet above it, depending if you count the buildings as soil), on internal flights at that. And USA hadn't really faced anything like that since the Civil War (yes, I know of the Oklahoma City bombing, it still doesn't reach the right magnitude). The World Wars never extended to USA mainland, so people had grown complacent, thinking nothing could reach them. Then, when, to their horror, their country turned out to be just as vulnerable as any else, the shock still remains.

For future children the 9/11 will be just another day to memorize in history class. Like Chernobyl or Fukushima, the re-election of Bush Jr., or any other major catastrophe you can think of.

[Fnordgasm 5]

I didn't think that there was any doubt the Bush administration seriously underestimated the threat posed by Al-Qeada. Considering how much the world hates the US it is almost understandable that something might slip through the net. It's unfortunate that it was this attack was the one they missed. However, I remember the efforts the Bush administration took to place the blame onto Clinton. I remember Condoleezza Rice and the Democrats "series of actionable items". Missing the signs can conceivably be forgiven. Trying to blame the fact you missed the signs on the former President and his administration not so much.

[Aryavartha]

Steve Coll in his book Ghost Wars - talks about how the bin laden cell was very zealously tracking him but most of the CIA and the admin were not really on the ball on that. There's an argument that Bush, Cheney and neocon gang co were so much into Iraq even before 9/11 that when 9/11 happened they used it to mobilize support for Iraq war. Given this backdrop it is very well possible that the admin ignored the repeated warnings as 'meh what's new'...

[Arkinesia]

Good god, man. This isn't news. This was in the 9/11 Commission Report.

Don't you people read anything?

[Shadowlandistan]

I believe they purposely ignored the threats in order to gain mass support for their war in Iraq.

[Phocidaea]

Old news. It's been known by everyone to the left of Ronald Reagan since, Iunno, 2003.

[4years]

Tell me something I don't know.