Affirmative Action

[Saiwania]

And yet whites make up the majority of my university.

Why do you believe that might be? Is it because you come from a majority white area or do they as a group have more money to spend on college? My college is mostly white because duh, my area of Florida is predominately white. There is nothing preventing other ethnic groups from attending. I've seen several Blacks, Hispanics, and Asians, etc. in my classes. None of them would have been denied without affirmative action.

[Mavorpen]

Nah. As others have pointed out, your posts are as nonsensical as you can get. The capitalism thread was you throwing straw man's left and right. But it's nice how you can't debate so you say, "LUL, IN THE OTHER THRED"

Which straw men? Substantiate, I say!

You don't know what a threadjack is, do you?

[Norsklow]

Which straw men? Substantiate, I say!

You don't know what a threadjack is, do you?

And do you know what an evasion is?

[Mavorpen]

And yet whites make up the majority of my university.

Why do you believe that might be? Is it because you come from a majority white area or do they as a group have more money to spend on college? My college is mostly white because duh, my area of Florida is predominately white. There is nothing preventing other ethnic groups from attending. I've seen several Blacks, Hispanics, and Asians, etc. in my classes. None of them would have been denied without affirmative action.

So you're admitting that even if whites became minorities, nothing would change?

[Mavorpen]

You don't know what a threadjack is, do you?

And do you know what an evasion is?

Yes. Now stop threadjacking.

[Saiwania]

So you're admitting that even if whites became minorities, nothing would change?

I'm saying that the college only cares about whether you are able to pay for tuition or not. If whites did become a minority, I doubt affirmative action would be extended to them.

[Mavorpen]

So you're admitting that even if whites became minorities, nothing would change?

I'm saying that the college only cares about whether you are able to pay for tuition or not. If whites did become a minority, I doubt affirmative action would be extended to them.

Now tell me, who are more impoverished, blacks or whites? Which is decreasing when it comes to poverty?

[Gravlen]

It means it works it works if only you accept 'equal outcomes' rather than equal opportunity.

Nope. Try reading the article.

[Norsklow]

It means it works it works if only you accept 'equal outcomes' rather than equal opportunity.

Nope. Try reading the article.

What did they do? GMAT?

[Gravlen]

So you're admitting that even if whites became minorities, nothing would change?

I'm saying that the college only cares about whether you are able to pay for tuition or not. If whites did become a minority, I doubt affirmative action would be extended to them.

Whites already benefit from affirmative action. Why would that change?

[Gravlen]

Nope. Try reading the article.

What did they do? GMAT?

LTPF.

[Saiwania]

Now tell me, who are more impoverished, blacks or whites? Which is decreasing when it comes to poverty?

Black households in general are poorer than White households, but both demographic groups are becoming poorer according to this table:
http://www.census.gov/compendia/statab/ ... 2s0691.pdf Asian/Pacific Islanders are the wealthiest group within the US.
I fail to see how affirmative action is that cause of that.

[Norsklow]

What did they do? GMAT?

LTPF.

Which is what kind of aptitude test?

[Norsklow]

I'm saying that the college only cares about whether you are able to pay for tuition or not. If whites did become a minority, I doubt affirmative action would be extended to them.

Whites already benefit from affirmative action. Why would that change?

That has been my major objection.

[Fluffy Coyotes]

I disagree. Genuine socialism can be a good thing. The kind of thing you point out is less a problem inherent in socialism and more an issue of not enough scrutiny applied to government officials.

The socialists are the officials in question - acting on a premeditated policy.
Socialism is the cancer. Eradication is the answer.

No, the socialists are also the members of the public who saw appeal in the pros of socialism but did not promote adequate measures to counteract the cons.

This is all beside the point that helping the poor is different from helping those who belong to groups who happen to be poorer on average.

[Norsklow]

The socialists are the officials in question - acting on a premeditated policy.
Socialism is the cancer. Eradication is the answer.

No, the socialists are also the members of the public who saw appeal in the pros of socialism but did not promote adequate measures to counteract the cons.

This is all beside the point that helping the poor is different from helping those who belong to groups who happen to be poorer on average.

As opposed to a focus what is best for the Nation. Both Cons and Lab are systematically acting as just an interest-group of one class.

[Saiwania]

Because I recognize that I already have significant benefits merely by being present in that demographic. And as an intellectually and ethically honest person, I support policies that seek to end advantages (or disadvantages) acquired merely by virtue of ones own race gender, religion, or sexuality. In fact, any person claiming to be moral is ethically REQUIRED to do so, even if doing so places him at a disadvantage. It's what ethical people do.

So in other words, you would be for taking grades away from an A student to give to an F student so that they both get C averages as a matter of being "fair" or "ethical"?

[Fluffy Coyotes]

No, the socialists are also the members of the public who saw appeal in the pros of socialism but did not promote adequate measures to counteract the cons.

This is all beside the point that helping the poor is different from helping those who belong to groups who happen to be poorer on average.

As opposed to a focus what is best for the Nation. Both Cons and Lab are systematically acting as just an interest-group of one class.

... which is why we need a bigger variety of parties so that you can easily replace one without needing to go back to the one you just replaced.

[Gravlen]

LTPF.

Which is what kind of aptitude test?

They Leveled The Playing Field.

[Norsklow]

As opposed to a focus what is best for the Nation. Both Cons and Lab are systematically acting as just an interest-group of one class.

... which is why we need a bigger variety of parties so that you can easily replace one without needing to go back to the one you just replaced.

Then you'll forgive me for voting Liberal Democrat even though I disagree with the platform half of the time.

[Norsklow]

Which is what kind of aptitude test?

They Leveled The Playing Field.

Solution Unacceptable.That is not an Aptitude Test.

Meritocracy or Bust!

[Fluffy Coyotes]

... which is why we need a bigger variety of parties so that you can easily replace one without needing to go back to the one you just replaced.

Then you'll forgive me for voting Liberal Democrat even though I disagree with the platform half of the time.

... actually, I mean a bigger variety than even that.

[Zambeze]

The interesting question is how will the Court decide Fisher v. University of Texas.

This case really makes no sense. The woman who is suing is a white woman from Texas. If the court rules in favor of Fisher, it will end Affirmative Action at all public universities in the United States. But it should be noted that in California and Texas, Affirmative Action has already been banned. Look at the results. With or without Affirmative Action, white women have not be discriminated against.

University of Texas, Austin
Fall 2011
Freshmen: 7,151
Blacks: 326 or 5%
Whites: 3,429 or 48%
Women: 3,829 or 54%.
http://www.utexas.edu/student/admissions/research/EnrolledFreshmenProfile-2011.pdf

Texas A&M
Fall 2011
Freshmen: 9,293
Blacks: 349
Whites: 6,267
Women: 4,550.
http://www.tamu.edu/customers/oisp/student-reports/enrollment-profile-fall-2011-certified.pdf

University of California, Los Angeles
Fall 2011
Undergraduates: 27,199
Blacks: 898 or 3%
Whites: 8,602 or 32%
Asians: 9,229 or 34%
Women: 14,911 or 55%.
http://www.aim.ucla.edu/enrollment/enrollment.asp

University of California, Berkeley
Fall 2011
Undergraduates: 25,885
Blacks: 892 or 4%
Whites: 7,736 or 33%
Asians: 10,038 or 43%
Women: 13,660 or 53%
http://opa.berkeley.edu/statistics/UndergraduateProfile.pdf

In Michigan, where Affirmative Action is legal, blacks still made up a small portion of the total enrolled students.

[Neo Art]

Because I recognize that I already have significant benefits merely by being present in that demographic. And as an intellectually and ethically honest person, I support policies that seek to end advantages (or disadvantages) acquired merely by virtue of ones own race gender, religion, or sexuality. In fact, any person claiming to be moral is ethically REQUIRED to do so, even if doing so places him at a disadvantage. It's what ethical people do.

So in other words, you would be for taking grades away from an A student to give to an F student so that they both get C averages as a matter of being "fair" or "ethical"?

You. Are. Horrible at this.

Really, I lack the necessary vocabulary to convey just how truly, truly bad this argument is.

[Greed and Death]

And that translates to extra consideration in admissions and hiring how ?

What the fuck are you talking about?

Are you in the right thread?

When people are criticizing affirmative action, they are not boarding complaining about the civil rights act, or equal access to jobs.

When people complain about affirmative action they are talking about Section 8 (a ) business, or the university admission practices that were at issue in Grutter v. Bollinger, 539 U.S. 306 (2003).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grutter_v._Bollinger

The term affirmative action used above is so common place, that when used, it is assumed to be used in the narrow sense I have described above.

Ensuring that African Americans and the disabled are not prevented from accessing public facilities is not what people mean when they affirmative action in the current common meaning of the term, attempts to suggest those seeking end "Affirmative Action" wish to close public facilities to minorities is a total misrepresentation of their argument.