Anti-Americanism on NationStates

[Cameroi]

there is no more false god, then nationalism. that of the u.s., is simply no exception.

[New Chalcedon]

*snips OP*

This, to parahprase the learned Dr Brzezinski, is so stunningly superficial I'm embarrassed to read it. I'll wade through the word salad, and offer rebuttals:

I don't understand why there is all of this America bashing here. The United States is the greatest country there is.

In the course of two sentences, imply a question, then answer it. A large part of the reason for the anti-Americanism in Western nations is the "Rah Rah!" nationalistic, jingoistic attitude that too many Americans project so heartily, combined with the barely-concealed contempt that the typical American holds for people of other nations. At best, we are viewed as the slightly-retarded country cousins who need our hands held, at worst we're treated as kids who need to be sternly supervised.

Other factors may include the unequal treaties forced upon "allies" (see AUSFTA for one example), the utter disregard for your allies' desires and needs and a general incomprehension of even the basics of world affairs that fails to deter Americans from commenting on events elsewhere with utter ignorance.

But mostly it's Americans' attitude. Some years ago, I was walking down Hay Street Mall (in the middle of Perth CBD, so a built-up and very prosperous part of a rapidly-expanding city) doing some window shopping, and a pair of American tourists (I believe husband and wife) came up to me. The woman was inoffensive enough (very loud dress, but I'm not going to condemn people based on poor fashion sense, else Australians would be at the top of my list), but the man ~~!

First thing out of his mouth: "Where are the kangaroos?"

This is in the middle of Hay Street Mall (FYI, this is approximating the view from where they ran into me), so I was flabbergasted for a moment. The man repeated, slowly and loudly (it did cut back on his Texan accent - you could have cut it with a knife the first time 'round), "Where are the kangaroos? Two legs, two short arms, pouch they keep their babies in, you know 'em, right?"

I will at this stage admit that I'm not a very nice person, because I thought of something nasty to do to these people who had annoyed me. I was trying not to give in to my evil impulses, and then the man pissed me off. "It'll be worth a whole dollar to you, boy. And not your funny foreign money - a whole American dollar!" I'd had it. I nodded enthusiastically, pointed the couple at Barracks Street, and then told them (in my best "dumb but earnest" voice), "The Kangaroos are that way, Mister. Go to the street, then turn right and walk a couple blocks to the park. You'll see them there - can I have the dollar now?"

I had directed them to Council House:



I didn't lie: there were indeed kangaroos there! But I did leave that particular encounter with an abiding distaste for American tourists. Which was only magnified when I went to America on a study exchange - thinking that I really ought to grow out of this whole "prejudice" thing - and was treated well enough - as a curiosity. Very, very aggravating, although there were a few Americans who managed to avoid it, with whom I was on excellent terms.

Most other free nations based their constitutions off ours

Bullshit.

The Australian Constitution was an amalgam of Westminster constitutional convention and Washington-style formalised constitutions - hence, "Washminster" to describe the constitutional doctrines of most Commonwealth realms.

Many nations (India being the largest example, Germany being another) relegate the Presidency to a more or less ceremonial role, with the actual governance being done by the head of the legislature.

France (and other nations which model their Constitutions from la belle dame France) adopted a Constitution which has a stronger Presidency than the US; not to mention a very, very different set of principles for criminal trials.

So this whole "Our Constitution is everybody's Constitution"?

Horseshit.

if it wasn't for us then it is very likely that most or all of Europe and Asia would be under the control of Nazi Germany, Fascist Italy, and Imperial Japan.

Highly unlikely.

- Japan attacked you; you had no choice but to go to war with them. Don't pretend nobility over actions you were forced to take.
- Italy was getting its butt kicked by Britain at every turn (also by Greece and France, just to give you an idea), and only ever won battles with Nazi help.
- Nazi Germany bit off more - far more - than it could chew by invading Russia. Would the absence of Lend-lease have made a difference? Sure it would have - it may have made the difference. But maybe not.

It was American humanitarian aid that helped put Europe back on it's feet after the war. We are also the ones that thwarted North Koreas attempt to conquer South Korea.

These I'll give you.

We are the ones who led the free world to victory in the Cold War.

No, you sat back & watched while a corrupt system struggled its way to oblivion. Also, American actions during the Cold War have led to headaches resonating through today; for instance, the Taliban was initially supplied by the USA as a Cold War tactic to occupy the USSR and turn Afghanistan into their Vietnam. Iran's hostility to the US today stems largely from the etensive help the Shah recieved from the USA (such as supplying the Shah's secret police, instigating coups against reformist leaders who actually won power, etc. etc.), expressly to keep Iran on side in the Cold War.

When it comes to giving aid to other countries in need it is America that is the most generous. We give several times more humanitarian aid and money to poor nations than any other country.

Horseshit. The USA gives 0.21% of its GDP in foreign aid. Even Australia gives more of its income than that - although your much higher absolute income means that the USA gives more total.

PS: Your $12.6bn annual aid is not "several times more" aid than Japan's $9.6bn. And your economy is three times theirs in size.

We have the third largest population, third largest land area

What is this to be proud of? Almost half your continental landmass was stolen from Mexico, and much fo the rest was stolen from its inhabitants.

largest economy

Not for long, and not for any reason you can do something about. China's got 4 times your population, and will soon increase its GDP/capita to beyond one-quarter of yours. Basically, the numbers mean you lose, under any policy you undertake.

the most powerful military

Debateable - you have the most powerful conventional military. Also, what is this to be proud of?

I admit that America does have it's flaws but as President William Clinton said "there is nothing wrong in America that can't be fixed with what is right in America".

Such a pity that America seems hellbent on not fixing its flaws, but (a) hiding from them, (b) misdiagnosing them, and (c) Mis-treating them.

Every country has it's flaws and home countries of these anti-americans are surely no exception

Most non-Americans don't go around saying "Our country, rah rah rah!" or the like. Your comparison is invalid.

Why is anti-americanism so rampant here?

Hopefully you can answer this part youself, after seeing what's written above.

[Aryavartha]

I don't see much of what you can call "anti-Americanism" here. I've seen boards where everything becomes reflexively anti-US.

People do show the mirror to the US and it annoys Americans who have never been exposed to a worldview that is different from the standard rah rah USA USA you get living in the USA.

[Yankee Empire]

We have the third largest population, third largest land area

What is this to be proud of? Almost half your continental landmass was stolen from Mexico, and much fo the rest was stolen from its inhabitants.

Conquered, not stolen.

largest economy

Not for long, and not for any reason you can do something about. China's got 4 times your population, and will soon increase its GDP/capita to beyond one-quarter of yours. Basically, the numbers mean you lose, under any policy you undertake.

Who really knows what the future holds?

the most powerful military

Debateable - you have the most powerful conventional military. Also, what is this to be proud of?

Aparrently you are either a pacifist or don't quite understand the word pride if you have to ask such a question.

I admit that America does have it's flaws but as President William Clinton said "there is nothing wrong in America that can't be fixed with what is right in America".

Such a pity that America seems hellbent on not fixing its flaws, but (a) hiding from them, (b) misdiagnosing them, and (c) Mis-treating them.

Wanting to trumpet our virtues and hide our (alleged) flaws is definately not something only Americans do, every nation in the world does this.
Doesn't mean i support it but I do think I understand it.

Every country has it's flaws and home countries of these anti-americans are surely no exception

Most non-Americans don't go around saying "Our country, rah rah rah!" or the like. Your comparison is invalid.

Now is that a problem with America or others? Maybe we shouldn't be criticised for haveing proud citizens and one should examine why "your" citizens aren't not as proud.

[Natovski]

From my POV, if you're not making at least a few people hate you, you're either inconsequential or not being true to yourself.

[Divair]

Well after going through all of the posts I have reached the sound conclusion that most of the anti-americanism here is the result of jealousy and envy of the United States. Well instead of bashing something you envy why not try to emmulate it and admire it? I think that most countries would benefit greatly by emmulating the U.S.

Talk about ignoring evidence.

[New Rogernomics]

Well after going through all of the posts I have reached the sound conclusion that most of the anti-americanism here is the result of jealousy and envy of the United States. Well instead of bashing something you envy why not try to emmulate it and admire it? I think that most countries would benefit greatly by emmulating the U.S.

Talk about ignoring evidence.

I think that was pretty established from his first post, hence one reason why I avoided taking apart the opening post and left it to others.

[Cromarty]

I think that most countries would benefit greatly by emmulating the U.S.

Pfft, we were overthrowing democratic regimes whilst you were still shooting each other and genociding the natives.

Everything you do, we did better, and with more style.

[Zaras]

What is this to be proud of? Almost half your continental landmass was stolen from Mexico, and much fo the rest was stolen from its inhabitants.

Conquered, not stolen.

Still fucking theft however you look at it. Taking land that wasn't yours to begin with.

[Yankee Empire]

The Anti-American sentiment here is probably what turned me into such a frothing Nationalist in the first place.

It does seem to have that effect doesn't it.

I would consider myself to simply be a patriot, but from constantly feeling like i have to defend my nations image it makes me feel as though I were an Ultranationalist.

[Yankee Empire]

Conquered, not stolen.

Still fucking theft however you look at it. Taking land that wasn't yours to begin with.

Whatever, point to place on the map that covers significant territory that is home to those whos ancestors didn't conquer it from someone else.

People forget the right of the conquerers what with the U.N. claiming it to be "illegal".

Those who are unable to defend their land by force of arms have no more right to it than anyone else, especially those who could.

[Divair]

Those who are unable to defend their land by force of arms have no more right to it than anyone else, especially those who could.

Ah, the smell of "might makes right" in the afternoon. It's hilarious. And sad.

[The Nuclear Fist]

Those who are unable to defend their land by force of arms have no more right to it than anyone else, especially those who could.

So if I bashed you over the head with a pickhandle and took your house, and the police didn't bother with you and your 'might makes right' philosophy, I would have a right to your home?

Good to know you and primitive apes share a philosophy.

[Zaras]

Whatever, point to place on the map that covers significant territory that is home to those whos ancestors didn't conquer it from someone else.

That's a terrible argument and you know it.

People forget the right of the conquerers what with the U.N. claiming it to be "illegal".

That's because it is. It's the 21st century, for fuck's sake. We're more fucking advanced than to accept that there's some kind of "right" to conquer lands. That's crazytalk. No, that's barbarian crazytalk.

Those who are unable to defend their land by force of arms have no more right to it than anyone else.

What. The. Fuck. Guy.

Okay, I'm going to invade your country right now since you don't have a right to it. Ye shall all bow down to thy new overlord!

Seriously though, that's an incredibly fucked up way of thinking there.

Now shut up and give America back to the Native Americans! Thy overlord commands it!

[Yankee Empire]

Those who are unable to defend their land by force of arms have no more right to it than anyone else, especially those who could.

Ah, the smell of "might makes right" in the afternoon. It's hilarious. And sad.

Those who are unable to defend their land by force of arms have no more right to it than anyone else, especially those who could.

Ah, the smell of "might makes right" in the afternoon. It's hilarious. And sad.

Might doesn't make right, but you need might to make right.

To make your case to have the strength to defend your position with arms if you can't with words.

I'll tell you whats hilarious and sad, your signiture.

What the hell does reluctantly living in Israel even mean? Why not move if you don't like it?

[Zaras]

To make your case to have the strength to defend your position with arms if you can't with words.

So, because your argument's such a pile of shit, does that mean you want to be defeated in battle?

What the hell does reluctantly living in Israel even mean? Why not move if you don't like it?

Because some of us are advanced enough to be aware of the realities of moving, and some of us want to work to make better countries instead of fleeing from problems.

[Yankee Empire]

Those who are unable to defend their land by force of arms have no more right to it than anyone else, especially those who could.

So if I bashed you over the head with a pickhandle and took your house, and the police didn't bother with you and your 'might makes right' philosophy, I would have a right to your home?

Good to know you and primitive apes share a philosophy.

Well if that were the case who could say otherwise? I'd be dead and couldn't make a case, and you'd be the only one with a voice.

[Zaras]

Well if that were the case who could say otherwise? I'd be dead and couldn't make a case, and you'd be the only one with a voice.

How in the name of motherfuck can you still think violence is the answer of everything? IT IS NOT.

[Divair]

Ah, the smell of "might makes right" in the afternoon. It's hilarious. And sad.

Ah, the smell of "might makes right" in the afternoon. It's hilarious. And sad.

Might doesn't make right, but you need might to make right.

To make your case to have the strength to defend your position with arms if you can't with words.

I'll tell you whats hilarious and sad, your signiture.

What the hell does reluctantly living in Israel even mean? Why not move if you don't like it?

Your nonsense is precisely "might makes right". By your philosophy if I take over your house successfully, I am completely justified and the police should bugger off.

And nice derailment.

[The Nuclear Fist]

Might doesn't make right, but you need might to make right.

Or an international criminal court.

I'll tell you whats hilarious and sad, your signiture.

Cheap shots everywhere.

What the hell does reluctantly living in Israel even mean? Why not move if you don't like it?

It means that you appear to have passively admitted that your arguments are hogwash, and so you're attempting to divert attention rather than be further grilled. If this is not the case, by all means, get back on track and stop trying to derail the thread.

[The Nuclear Fist]

Well if that were the case who could say otherwise? I'd be dead and couldn't make a case, and you'd be the only one with a voice.

You wouldn't be dead, you'd just be homeless.

And it's good to know that you despise the rule of law, and obviously never bother to report crimes and take people to court. After all, if you can't prevent it from happening, you deserved it, right?

[Zaras]

It means that you appear to have passively admitted that your arguments are hogwash, and so you're attempting to divert attention rather than be further grilled. If this is not the case, by all means, get back on track and stop trying to derail the thread.

But Yankee hasn't shown any actual arguments beyond cheap shots, attempted derails and violent wankfantasy about might making right...

[The Nuclear Fist]

But Yankee hasn't shown any actual arguments beyond cheap shots, attempted derails and violent wankfantasy about might making right...

Touche.

[Yankee Empire]

Whatever, point to place on the map that covers significant territory that is home to those whos ancestors didn't conquer it from someone else.

That's a terrible argument and you know it.

If I "knew" (i.e. agreed with you) that then i wouldn't have stated it.

People forget the right of the conquerers what with the U.N. claiming it to be "illegal".

That's because it is. It's the 21st century, for fuck's sake. We're more fucking advanced than to accept that there's some kind of "right" to conquer lands. That's crazytalk. No, that's barbarian crazytalk.

What relevance does the century hold?
How are "we" more advanced?
And why am I crazy?

Care to make an actual argument rather than stateing predispositions?

Those who are unable to defend their land by force of arms have no more right to it than anyone else.

What. The. Fuck. Guy.

Personal will and ability to endure suffering and sacrifice is as much a part of the wealth of a nation as, physical goods, tradtion or culture.

Okay, I'm going to invade your country right now since you don't have a right to it. Ye shall all bow down to thy new overlord!

Seriously though, that's an incredibly fucked up way of thinking there.

Now shut up and give America back to the Native Americans! Thy overlord commands it!

Why is it a "fucked up way of thinking" because it's so alien from your own worldview, I could just as easily call your case childish and naive (in a way i just did) but insults of character are a lazy mans way of arguing.

So if you are so sure of your own beliefs defend them with reason.

[Yankee Empire]

Well if that were the case who could say otherwise? I'd be dead and couldn't make a case, and you'd be the only one with a voice.

How in the name of motherfuck can you still think violence is the answer of everything? IT IS NOT.

I never did. Such is the folly of misinterpetation.