Anti-Americanism on NationStates

[The Nuclear Fist]

I don't put down other country's by saying it's the greatest lol again you don't know what your saying. Ive repeatedly said that I am proud to be an American and am respectful towards other countrys, I still hold mine above all others.

I am fully aware of what I am saying. You may not have personally said it, but you've consistently defended those posters making the claim that the US is the greatest country in the world, and you've constantly argued that NSG is Anti-American without showing a shred of actual evidence.

You tell me what the fuck is wrong with me saying that I hold my country above all others?

There is nothing wrong with the US being your favourite nation, but there is nothing right about thinking it is superior to all others.

[Sulamalik]

By what standard are we losing Afghanistan?

Afghanistan is bleeding more than ever

[North Calaveras]

I don't put down other country's by saying it's the greatest lol again you don't know what your saying. Ive repeatedly said that I am proud to be an American and am respectful towards other countrys, I still hold mine above all others.

I am fully aware of what I am saying. You may not have personally said it, but you've consistently defended those posters making the claim that the US is the greatest country in the world, and you've constantly argued that NSG is Anti-American without showing a shred of actual evidence.

You tell me what the fuck is wrong with me saying that I hold my country above all others?

There is nothing wrong with the US being your favourite nation, but there is nothing right about thinking it is superior to all others.

1) I defend them to try to keep a balance, you mind showing me where all the pro-American threads are? Cause this is the only one ive seen in awhile that even hints of pro-Americanism

2) Holding my nation above others dosn't mean that others are inferior, it means I hold my nation to a higher standard and expect it to be better than other counrtys. Yet when I say these things I'm called names, the fuck is up with that.

[Farnhamia]

By what standard are we losing Afghanistan?

Afghanistan is bleeding more than ever

That was two years ago.

[The Tiger Kingdom]

By what standard are we losing Afghanistan?

You've created a bloated, corrupt, barely functioning government that will likely not fair well after the US leaves. The Taliban are weaker than they once were, but they are by no means defeated.

I would think the Afghan people have some responsibility for that government, its integrity, and its conduct as well. But I understand your point. I too don't have a great deal of faith in their government, but I think the US did the best we could there with what we had. It seems you can't make people want a representative government, it really does have to come from them. We should've paid more attention to that lesson since Somalia.

As for Iraq...well, does the world want us in there to win, or out of there and not giving a shit? Can't have both.

The world doesn't particularly care, nor should they. You start a war, you end it.

Well, we have. It's saving us a lot of money now, as well.

[Sulamalik]

Afghanistan is bleeding more than ever

That was two years ago.

The situation isn't getting very brighter. You'd have to be fooling yourself if you think Karzai's Afghanistan is close to be being stable. When the US leaves, there'll be more blood and more hardship for the innocent Afghani people. Only the Marines won't be handing out the condolence payments this time.

[The Nuclear Fist]

1) I defend them to try to keep a balance,

And you're failing miserably. This argument is one sided for a reason.

you mind showing me where all the pro-American threads are? Cause this is the only one ive seen in awhile that even hints of pro-Americanism

You make the claim, you back it up. You said NSG is rampantly Anti-American and it is up to you to prove it.

2) Holding my nation above others dosn't mean that others are inferior, it means I hold my nation to a higher standard and expect it to be better than other counrtys. Yet when I say these things I'm called names, the fuck is up with that.

No one has called you any names.

[Farnhamia]

That was two years ago.

The situation isn't getting very brighter. You'd have to be fooling yourself if you think Karzai's Afghanistan is close to be being stable. When the US leaves, they'll be more blood and more hardship for the innocent Afghani people. Only the Marines won't be handing out the condolence payments.

Karzai's government is not the same as a military operation from two years ago, is it? I agree about Karzai.

[Sulamalik]

The situation isn't getting very brighter. You'd have to be fooling yourself if you think Karzai's Afghanistan is close to be being stable. When the US leaves, they'll be more blood and more hardship for the innocent Afghani people. Only the Marines won't be handing out the condolence payments.

Karzai's government is not the same as a military operation from two years ago, is it? I agree about Karzai.

The point I was trying to make was: the Afghani people don't want the US soldiers there, the US soldiers fighting don't want to be there, and the US citizens don't want their soldiers fighting. If everybody thinks the war is a failure but no one's willing to speak up, what does that make the war? A failure or a success?

[Farnhamia]

Karzai's government is not the same as a military operation from two years ago, is it? I agree about Karzai.

The point I was trying to make was: the Afghani people don't want the US soldiers there, the US soldiers fighting don't want to be there, and the US citizens don't want their soldiers there. If everybody thinks the war is a failure but no one's willing to speak up, what does that make the war? A failure or a success?

And the US is in the process of withdrawing. You can't just send out orders to the effect that "Okay, we're out of here" and withdraw in a week. It takes time. And the opinion of the troops is irrelevant. They go where they're told to go.

It was a failure as far as catching or killed Bin Laden is concerned because the war did neither.

[North Calaveras]

1) I defend them to try to keep a balance,

And you're failing miserably. This argument is one sided for a reason.

you mind showing me where all the pro-American threads are? Cause this is the only one ive seen in awhile that even hints of pro-Americanism

You make the claim, you back it up. You said NSG is rampantly Anti-American and it is up to you to prove it.

2) Holding my nation above others dosn't mean that others are inferior, it means I hold my nation to a higher standard and expect it to be better than other counrtys. Yet when I say these things I'm called names, the fuck is up with that.

No one has called you any names.

viewtopic.php?f=20&t=198055

viewtopic.php?f=20&t=199741

viewtopic.php?f=20&t=198009

viewtopic.php?f=20&t=197926

viewtopic.php?f=20&t=196790

viewtopic.php?f=20&t=196795

viewtopic.php?f=20&t=196409

viewtopic.php?f=20&t=194527

viewtopic.php?f=20&t=194122

viewtopic.php?f=20&t=174913

viewtopic.php?f=20&t=191331

viewtopic.php?f=20&t=192639

viewtopic.php?f=20&t=192017 ( Here is a poll of NS leftists/rightists to add some weight)

Most of these are either devolved in Anti-Americanism, Anti-Republicans, Anti-Right or Anti-Israel

If it's not about bashing republicans over bullshit claims(such as a newsletter that doesn't represent the entire republican party), When it comes to Israel they again make all these bullshit claims about how horrible israel is, or they just blatantly devolve the thread into anti-Americanism.

I will admit that there are two sides to that coin and there are indeed some right/american/israeli pro-arguements that are biased but not compared to the shit pile that this is.

NOTE: i could have got more sources but I was tired of going back through pages and pages.

[Shnercropolis]

we're developing information technology at a blinding rate, mass-producing good cars(before you say anyhing, most of the BMW and Toyota and whatever cars are produced in America) and making a shitload of money in the process. If you're going to say any country is doing nothing with a mass of wealth, say that Switzerland is doing that, because they actually are.

So a few new toys in exchange for the slow bankruptcy? Woopy.(1)

Thanks for proving my point.

Not American, dear. But the fact that you can't see past a veil of jingoism certainly proves mine.(2)

Notice how the wars were fought pretty damn well. We haven't lost a war, out Of maybe 10, since the Vietnam war. You're making a point about how bad we are at declaring war.

Ah, whenever you're losing a war, it's always nice to shift the goalposts and terms of victory. (3)

Then where is? "Enlighten" me with your "immaculate wisdom" on what every country in the world is like.

There is no 'greatest country', and thinking of the world in such a way is only a sign of ignorance of the world at large. All nations have their strengths and faults, the US is no different.(4)

1: blame our f**ed up government for that. Government =/= nation.
2: um, we agree on that point. I said that our education system is going seriously downhill and so did you.
3: like invading for no reason? Yeah, once again blame the government, or more specifically every president between Carter and Obama.
4: then what's the point of being unpatriotic if every other country is just as bad?

[Sulamalik]

The point I was trying to make was: the Afghani people don't want the US soldiers there, the US soldiers fighting don't want to be there, and the US citizens don't want their soldiers there. If everybody thinks the war is a failure but no one's willing to speak up, what does that make the war? A failure or a success?

And the US is in the process of withdrawing. You can't just send out orders to the effect that "Okay, we're out of here" and withdraw in a week. It takes time. And the opinion of the troops is irrelevant. They go where they're told to go.

I am, and always have, taken the position that the US should have never pursued the War on Terror. To me, it doesn't matter if they go out now or in two years, Afghanistan will have to spend decades more to recover from their invasion. Perhaps they will never fully recover.

And I do think the opinion of troops matters. Soldiers are more willing to die for their country when they support their country's cause. That's what gave American the easy victory against Saddam during the invasion of Iraqi.

[Shnercropolis]

And the US is in the process of withdrawing. You can't just send out orders to the effect that "Okay, we're out of here" and withdraw in a week. It takes time. And the opinion of the troops is irrelevant. They go where they're told to go.

I am, and always have, taken the position that the US should have never pursued the War on Terror. To me, it doesn't matter if they go out now or in two years, Afghanistan will have to spend decades more to recover from their intervention.

And I do think the opinion of troops matter. Soldiers are more willing to die for their country when they support their country's cause. That's what gave American the easy victory against Saddam during the invasion of Iraqi.

^this^

[The Cookish States]

All you euros, if America is so similar to every other country, how about you hop off our jock?

You're jealous because you're in a debt-ridden shithole, being taken over by "dirty easterners" or whatever racism-xenophobia y'all have going on.

We're giving you a collective middle finger because our debt-ridden paradise is still functional, and is most likely going to improve greatly within the next decade, unlike yours.

You're jealous because we have the power to change that which disturbs us, whether it's Saddam in Iraq, the Taliban in Afghanistan, Qaddafi in Libya. Granted, we have a "Well, after a few years we won't stand for that!" frame of mind, but the fact remains that we are the worlds greatest superpower. (and if you deny that you're quite honestly very mistaken) As a superpower with global force projection, we expect ourselves to help the unfortunate, give to the needy, and crush the evil.

Now go ahead, tell us how terrible the U.S is, and how we'll go down as the bullies in history.

The Holocaust. (link was being all silly)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italian_invasion_of_Ethiopia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_Inquisition
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Purge
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c0/WWII.png
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bosnian_Genocide
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armenian_Genocide

And clearly, the United States is full of greedy imperialists, who just want to grab nations for oil and riches

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/26/The_British_Empire.png
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_Empire
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazi_Germany
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USSR
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USSR

Now, I'd like you to name an American atrocity that's half as bad as anything listed above. Furthermore, I'd like you to source the exploitation of locals in areas which we do or have occupied.

I'm sure you'll dig up something, so I'd like you to contrast that with your own nations history in that respect.

Got all that? Okay. Now you can sit down, shut up, and leave us alone.

[Sulamalik]

Snip

I'm Canadian, and I oppose US imperialism and exceptionalism. I believe the US have given the world tonnes of shit we should be thankful for, but that doesn't give them the right to rob nations of their self-determination.

[The Nuclear Fist]

http://forum.nationstates.net/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=198055

viewtopic.php?f=20&t=199741

viewtopic.php?f=20&t=198009

viewtopic.php?f=20&t=197926

viewtopic.php?f=20&t=196790

viewtopic.php?f=20&t=196795

viewtopic.php?f=20&t=196409

viewtopic.php?f=20&t=194527

viewtopic.php?f=20&t=194122

viewtopic.php?f=20&t=174913

viewtopic.php?f=20&t=191331

viewtopic.php?f=20&t=192639

viewtopic.php?f=20&t=192017 ( Here is a poll of NS leftists/rightists to add some weight)

Wow, you managed to provide me with the crowning example of American jingoists being incapable of taking criticism. None of those were Anti-American threads.

Most of these are either devolved in Anti-Americanism, Anti-Republicans, Anti-Right or Anti-Israel

None of those threads were Anti-American, and the points brought up regarding the Republicans and Israel were legitimate. Try again.

If it's not about bashing republicans over bullshit claims(such as a newsletter that doesn't represent the entire republican party),

I've yet to see any bullshit claims.

When it comes to Israel they again make all these bullshit claims about how horrible israel is,

Israel is great if you're not a Muslim or a Palestinian. Ask Divair, he used to live there.

or they just blatantly devolve the thread into anti-Americanism.

Not from what you've just shown me.

I will admit that there are two sides to that coin and there are indeed some right/american/israeli pro-arguements that are biased but not compared to the shit pile that this is.

The only shitpile I've seen is your argument that NSG is Anti-American.

NOTE: i could have got more sources but I was tired of going back through pages and pages.

Save yourself the time, your sources proved nothing.

[North Calaveras]

All you euros, if America is so similar to every other country, how about you hop off our jock?

You're jealous because you're in a debt-ridden shithole, being taken over by "dirty easterners" or whatever racism-xenophobia y'all have going on.

We're giving you a collective middle finger because our debt-ridden paradise is still functional, and is most likely going to improve greatly within the next decade, unlike yours.

You're jealous because we have the power to change that which disturbs us, whether it's Saddam in Iraq, the Taliban in Afghanistan, Qaddafi in Libya. Granted, we have a "Well, after a few years we won't stand for that!" frame of mind, but the fact remains that we are the worlds greatest superpower. (and if you deny that you're quite honestly very mistaken) As a superpower with global force projection, we expect ourselves to help the unfortunate, give to the needy, and crush the evil.

Now go ahead, tell us how terrible the U.S is, and how we'll go down as the bullies in history.

[url]en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Holocaust[/url]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italian_invasion_of_Ethiopia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_Inquisition
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Purge
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c0/WWII.png
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bosnian_Genocide
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armenian_Genocide

And clearly, the United States is full of greedy imperialists, who just want to grab nations for oil and riches

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/26/The_British_Empire.png
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_Empire
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazi_Germany
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USSR
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USSR

Now, I'd like you to name an American atrocity that's half as bad as anything listed above. Furthermore, I'd like you to source the exploitation of locals in areas which we do or have occupied.

I'm sure you'll dig up something, so I'd like you to contrast that with your own nations history in that respect.

Got all that? Okay. Now you can sit down, shut up, and leave us alone.

I'm Canadian, and I oppose US imperialism and exceptionalism. I belive the US have given the world tonnes of shit we should be thankful for, but that doesn't give them the right to rob nations of their self-determination.

hold on Sulamalik when did the US rob a nation of it's self-determination? I guess you could count the Native Americans, but that was a very long time ago(and we wouldn't be the only ones doing that back then)

[North Calaveras]

http://forum.nationstates.net/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=198055

viewtopic.php?f=20&t=199741

viewtopic.php?f=20&t=198009

viewtopic.php?f=20&t=197926

viewtopic.php?f=20&t=196790

viewtopic.php?f=20&t=196795

viewtopic.php?f=20&t=196409

viewtopic.php?f=20&t=194527

viewtopic.php?f=20&t=194122

viewtopic.php?f=20&t=174913

viewtopic.php?f=20&t=191331

viewtopic.php?f=20&t=192639

viewtopic.php?f=20&t=192017 ( Here is a poll of NS leftists/rightists to add some weight)

Wow, you managed to provide me with the crowning example of American jingoists being incapable of taking criticism. None of those were Anti-American threads.

Most of these are either devolved in Anti-Americanism, Anti-Republicans, Anti-Right or Anti-Israel

None of those threads were Anti-American, and the points brought up regarding the Republicans and Israel were legitimate. Try again.

If it's not about bashing republicans over bullshit claims(such as a newsletter that doesn't represent the entire republican party),

I've yet to see any bullshit claims.

When it comes to Israel they again make all these bullshit claims about how horrible israel is,

Israel is great if you're not a Muslim or a Palestinian. Ask Divair, he used to live there.

or they just blatantly devolve the thread into anti-Americanism.

Not from what you've just shown me.

I will admit that there are two sides to that coin and there are indeed some right/american/israeli pro-arguements that are biased but not compared to the shit pile that this is.

The only shitpile I've seen is your argument that NSG is Anti-American.

NOTE: i could have got more sources but I was tired of going back through pages and pages.

Save yourself the time, your sources proved nothing.

Fuck it Nuclear you clearly didn't even look through half-of the sources, if your going to bitch after I give you sources then that's your problem and you have to deal with it. Don't ask people to back it up and when they do go " lol theres nothing here cause...uh...uhh..."

[Sulamalik]

I'm Canadian, and I oppose US imperialism and exceptionalism. I belive the US have given the world tonnes of shit we should be thankful for, but that doesn't give them the right to rob nations of their self-determination.

hold on Sulamalik when did the US rob a nation of it's self-determination? I guess you could count the Native Americans, but that was a very long time ago(and we wouldn't be the only ones doing that back then)

Iran in 1952. You destroyed a secular democratic government because it wanted to take back its oil for the Iranian people.

This is not the only case.

[North Calaveras]

hold on Sulamalik when did the US rob a nation of it's self-determination? I guess you could count the Native Americans, but that was a very long time ago(and we wouldn't be the only ones doing that back then)

Iran in 1952. You destroyed a secular democratic government because it wanted to take back its oil for the Iranian people.

You referring to the Shah? The Shah was a far far far far cry better than the Islamic government that replaced it, I'm surprised people give the Shah so much shit considering how great Iran was before the Iranian revolution.

[Shnercropolis]

hold on Sulamalik when did the US rob a nation of it's self-determination? I guess you could count the Native Americans, but that was a very long time ago(and we wouldn't be the only ones doing that back then)

Iran in 1952. You destroyed a secular democratic government because it wanted to take back its oil for the Iranian people.

This is not the only case.

We were prety terrible during the Cold War.

[Sulamalik]

Iran in 1952. You destroyed a secular democratic government because it wanted to take back its oil for the Iranian people.

You referring to the Shah? The Shah was a far far far far cry better than the Islamic government that replaced it, I'm surprised people give the Shah so much shit considering how great Iran was before the Iranian revolution.

I'm referring to Prime Minister Mohammed Mossadegh, who the CIA replaced with the Shah

[North Calaveras]

You referring to the Shah? The Shah was a far far far far cry better than the Islamic government that replaced it, I'm surprised people give the Shah so much shit considering how great Iran was before the Iranian revolution.

I'm referring to Prime Minister Mohammed Mossadegh, who the CIA replaced with the Shah

So we did something in our interest, and the Iranian nation was a good nation with the Shah we hardly hurt it and we sure as hell didn't cause the Iranian revolution, that was there choice to over run the government and turn into a theocratic shithole.

[The Nuclear Fist]

Fuck it Nuclear you clearly didn't even look through half-of the sources,

I did, you just don't have any room to stand on and I called you on it.

if your going to bitch after I give you sources then that's your problem and you have to deal with it.

I'm not bitching, I'm pointing out the fact that your sources do the opposite of what you say they do.

Don't ask people to back it up and when they do go " lol theres nothing here cause...uh...uhh..."

Then don't post shit and say it's gold, dear. There is nothing there because none of those threads were Anti-American, so you've managed to climb the highest peak of Mount Horseshit and plant a flag. I must say, though, your ability to be so incredibly wrong whilst at the same time maintaining that you're right is quite commendable, in a very disturbing way.