C.S. Lewis's Irrefutable Proof of Christianity (Or God)

[Esternial]

I guess we've about refuted C.S. Lewis' proof more than enough by now.

[Silent Majority]

By the OP's logic, God was guiding every single crime, war, conquest, and genocide in man's history. None of it was Satan (interestingly, the OP hasn't even mentioned the Devil once, I don't think). All of it was a loving god, who let the Purges, Holocaust, Rwandan genocide, Khmer Rouge, all of that happen.
This is a god that loves you, apparently.

He could have had his reasons. He could have used the Holocaust, for example, to teach people lessons about things.

EDIT: As in, people learn from tragedy.

The idea of an all powerful sociopath is incredibly disturbing.

[LogiChristianity]

He could have had his reasons. He could have used the Holocaust, for example, to teach people lessons about things.

EDIT: As in, people learn from tragedy.

Then God is an asshole. Vlad the Impaler should ask for tips.

But think utilitarianism. God could have used the Holocaust to save net lives.

[Chulainan]

By the OP's logic, God was guiding every single crime, war, conquest, and genocide in man's history. None of it was Satan (interestingly, the OP hasn't even mentioned the Devil once, I don't think). All of it was a loving god, who let the Purges, Holocaust, Rwandan genocide, Khmer Rouge, all of that happen.
This is a god that loves you, apparently.

He could have had his reasons. He could have used the Holocaust, for example, to teach people lessons about things.

EDIT: As in, people learn from tragedy.

And this requires the holocaust how? People die of old age, accidents and natural disasters, family would view this as tragic.

Your god sounds like a dick, I shall stick to my numerous own.

[San Leggera]

By the OP's logic, God was guiding every single crime, war, conquest, and genocide in man's history. None of it was Satan (interestingly, the OP hasn't even mentioned the Devil once, I don't think). All of it was a loving god, who let the Purges, Holocaust, Rwandan genocide, Khmer Rouge, all of that happen.
This is a god that loves you, apparently.

He could have had his reasons. He could have used the Holocaust, for example, to teach people lessons about things.

EDIT: As in, people learn from tragedy.

That goes against the sixth commandment

[Madoka Kaname]

By the OP's logic, God was guiding every single crime, war, conquest, and genocide in man's history. None of it was Satan (interestingly, the OP hasn't even mentioned the Devil once, I don't think). All of it was a loving god, who let the Purges, Holocaust, Rwandan genocide, Khmer Rouge, all of that happen.
This is a god that loves you, apparently.

He could have had his reasons. He could have used the Holocaust, for example, to teach people lessons about things.

EDIT: As in, people learn from tragedy.

Too bad you don't learn from the debates here amirite.

[Hamste]

How exactly do you know I'm not guiding your life?

Because things are going in God's way, not your way.

...so it's god's way for us to be utterly destroying the earth, killing people in his name and for people to torture others to 'convert' them?

[Menassa]

He could have had his reasons. He could have used the Holocaust, for example, to teach people lessons about things.

EDIT: As in, people learn from tragedy.

So the moral of the story is Hitler was doing gods will. Gotcha.

Since the Jews denied Christ...... and are therefore Satan I'd say he was too [/sarcasm]

[The Tiger Kingdom]

Then God is an asshole. Vlad the Impaler should ask for tips.

But think utilitarianism. God could have used the Holocaust to save net lives.

Source?

[Nordengrund]

Well, from what I read in Apologetics, the reason God does not show himself to the skeptics is because the skeptics cannot tell Him what to do and he will not appear to everyone asking for proof because He does not appear for their amusement.

[Vultan]

Guys, while the argument about blasphemy is very clever, I never said CS Lewis is infallible. I called the argument he makes irrefutable, since Christianity is true. I KNOW it is true because I can see how God has affected my life in so many ways, plus the fact that the Bible has consistent values throughout. But I'm trying to find a medium, possibly CS Lewis, through which to convince you guys.

Unfortunately, the problem here arises from that you perceive the world through a series of nervous connections connecting in the brain. These nervous connections, while very advanced and quite remarkable, can still frequently be tricked or messed with. If you are rotated for a period of time in one direction, and suddenly stop, you will feel like you are still rotating (ie. dizziness). This is a very simple example, but it can be taken, much much farther; people with Alzheimers forget who their children and spouses are, and instead their brain - in an effort to make sense of the world - may assign them new identities, such as those of long-dead siblings or friends of those with the condition - or they may simply not be recognized at all.

Experiments into perception-altering situations include a long range of elements such as drugs, music, group pressuse, suggestion, planting images, colouring, etc.

What I am saying is not that there isn't a God - but that arguing the existance of a supreme being based on a purely subjective experience is not going to lead anywhere. I like tomatoes. I can't factually argue that tomatoes are "tasty" because it is not within the realm of empirically provable studies - it is a part of the world as I experience it subjectively.

I don't have a problem witn religiousness, of believing in something higher - but what I do have a problem is setting it in direct confrontation with the scientific method, since the two are different by nature. The scientific method is based around repeatable experiments and empirical observations, whereas religion is based around faith. The two are like different train tracks that never touch.

There are a number of logical problems associated with the existance of a benevolent, all-powerful deity of course. There's the classic Problem of Evil, wherein the conflicting reality of the world is pitted against the reportedly all-loving nature of a supreme being (ie. If god is all loving and all-powerful, and there is suffering in the world, why does he not remove it? Even disregarding the evil acts committed by humans as active agents, there are still plenty of bad things out there. One might come to the conclusion that god is either not all-powerful, not all-loving, or does not exist. One might also argue that the human perception of suffering is below a scope as perceived by the deity - but that is moving into some very diffuse and wishy-washy metaphysics mostly discussed by drunk philosophy students ) - there's the problem of the Prime Mover, wherein any quality given to a creator of a universe, may equally plausibly be attributed to the universe itself (ie. if god created himself, why couldn't the universe have created itself? If god is eternal, why can't the universe be eternal?)

I personally consider myself a bit of a deist, but I'll freely admit to not having in any shape or form the answer to anything regarding the metaphysical nature of the cosmos.

[LogiChristianity]

That's just you guys exercising your free will.

There is either free will or the Christian God guides everything. Those two statements are mutually exclusive.

No they aren't. God gives us free will. But he created the biochemistry in our brains, so we are programmed to make certain decisions. We still make them though.

[Menassa]

Then God is an asshole. Vlad the Impaler should ask for tips.

But think utilitarianism. God could have used the Holocaust to save net lives.

Ah..... the needs of the many outweigh the needs of Jews..... I've heard of this.

[Avenio]

There is either free will or the Christian God guides everything. Those two statements are mutually exclusive.

No they aren't. God gives us free will. But he created the biochemistry in our brains, so we are programmed to make certain decisions. We still make them though.

So he created some of us hard-wired to sin, and thus we cannot be saved?

[Mondrova]

Then God is an asshole. Vlad the Impaler should ask for tips.

But think utilitarianism. God could have used the Holocaust to save net lives.

So the many millions of Jews, just to name one group who was murdered, were just a necessary sacrifice? Pretty fucked up, I mean Jesus was a Jew and they pretty much led to Christianity.

[Alyekra]

But think utilitarianism. God could have used the Holocaust to save net lives.

Ah..... the needs of the many outweigh the needs of Jews..... I've heard of this.

Best pun of the week, 10/10

[LogiChristianity]

But think utilitarianism. God could have used the Holocaust to save net lives.

Source?

We can't know what didn't happen. But God does.

[Condunum]

Then God is an asshole. Vlad the Impaler should ask for tips.

But think utilitarianism. God could have used the Holocaust to save net lives.

How, exactly? How would killing over 10 million people save lives?

[Madoka Kaname]

Well, from what I read in Apologetics, the reason God does not show himself to the skeptics is because the skeptics cannot tell Him what to do and he will not appear to everyone asking for proof because He does not appear for their amusement.

One can make that argument for every deity humans have ever invented.

[Death Metal]

But he created the biochemistry in our brains, so we are programmed to make certain decisions.

AHA! You just admitted Biochemistry exists! Therefore CS Lewis is full of shit, BY YOUR OWN ADMISSION!

[The Tiger Kingdom]

There is either free will or the Christian God guides everything. Those two statements are mutually exclusive.

No they aren't. God gives us free will. But he created the biochemistry in our brains, so we are programmed to make certain decisions. We still make them though.

Then we don't have free will.
There is no middle ground with free will. Either your will is ENTIRELY free - or it isn't. And the entire argument you've been making is that we don't - that god controls everything. Well, then god owns every single evil that ever happened, ever. Or we do have free will, and he let it happen.
That's not a god I want to worship.
EDIT: And you just contradicted your own argument vis-a-vis biochemistry.

[Atollus]

But think utilitarianism. God could have used the Holocaust to save net lives.

Or he could have waved his hand and downloaded the knowledge of what could happen directly into our brains... But you know killing millions of people is totally more efficient.

[Tlaceceyaya]

Well, from what I read in Apologetics, the reason God does not show himself to the skeptics is because the skeptics cannot tell Him what to do and he will not appear to everyone asking for proof because He does not appear for their amusement.

So, basically, those apologists are admitting that they have no proof, but twisting it to sound like a failing on the fault of the skeptics.

[The USOT]

Ditto. I've never once had a religious experience in my entire life, and I suspect I never will.

That's just you guys exercising your free will.

So your saying that we are using our own free will to NOT experience eternal paradise?
Do you think every non christian likes to self inflict pain onto themselves?

[Mavorpen]

C.S. Lewis's Irrefutable Proof of Christianity (Or God)

Oxymoron much.