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Have we created a Hell on Earth?

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Samuraikoku
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Ex-Nation

Postby Samuraikoku » Wed Sep 05, 2012 9:44 am

Sidhae wrote:The concept of an immortal soul doesn't contradict the accepted theories of physics. Energy never disappears, it merely transforms. Energy can also be used to store information and transform it into a tangible form - a feature we both are currently using with our computers. In fact, both energy and matter IS information.

It's not that difficult to understand how a soul might exist if you look at everything as a compilation of information. Atoms are made up of sub-atomic particles which define it's properties, much like bits define the properties of a byte. Atoms make up molecules, defining their properties much like bytes define the properties of a kilobyte. Molecules make up larger complex structures, defining their properties, and so on all the way up to Universe scale. Everything, from a string to atom to molecule to human being, is a carrier of information.

That information, the total sum of information that makes up you, is your soul. That information is infinite, because it didn't assemble into you from nowhere, and it won't disappear into oblivion when your current form eventually disassembles. It will carry on and eventually reassemble in a new form that may have no semblance of your previous form, but will still effectively be you.


When water turns into ice, or steam, is it still water? Nope. The atoms are the same, but they're not configured in a liquid form, they're in a solid or gaseous form respectively. So while it may be the same molecules, it's still not the same.

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Isointania
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Postby Isointania » Wed Sep 05, 2012 9:45 am

Nope.
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The Rich Port
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Postby The Rich Port » Wed Sep 05, 2012 9:45 am

Maybe.

But that doesn't mean that it wouldn't look nice.

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Nu Sparta
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Postby Nu Sparta » Wed Sep 05, 2012 9:46 am

Samuraikoku wrote:
Nu Sparta wrote:
Yes because 40K Warhammer is completely and utterly correct in its time line. The first future tech game to be so and why its so popular.


Do you see many Space Marines around? Other than me, of course. *nods*


What does any of this have to do with the fact that I said and believe:

Restatement: I don't think humans being intelligent to the point at which we are, highly more then many of the other species on the planet, was for no reason at all. I don't find it was for the reason of divine destiny and ruling over the planet as we see fit either, but instead as a more humble role in protecting and taking care of the planet.

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Ifreann
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Postby Ifreann » Wed Sep 05, 2012 9:47 am

Farnhamia wrote:
Sibirsky wrote:Agreed. Iran gets an unwarranted bad rap. Certainly it's not paradise, or one of the world's leading nations, but it is far better than the common western claims.

Oddly enough, "paradise" is an Old Iranian word for a walled enclosure, such as a garden or a park or an animal preserve. Go figure.

I suppose that would be pretty sweet compared to the open desert.


Nu Sparta wrote:Islamist

The term is 'Muslims'.


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Ifreann wrote:I take offence at this.


As a pagan or an irishman?

The latter. You won't hear any of this "Humans are a virus, science is icky" stuff from our leprechauns.


Nu Sparta wrote:
Ifreann wrote:I don't see how.

And how many other creatures do the same? I've already mentioned beavers and their dams and termite and their mounds. We're far from the only life form that remakes their environment to better suit their needs. We're just much better at it. We adapted to be this good at it, just like everything else that builds a home for itself adapted to be as good as it is.



I take offence at this.



If it came out tomorrow that literally everything we know about the universe was false, if absolutely every single piece of information we've gathered from doing science was actually wrong, that doesn't mean that your beliefs are right.

If you want to defend your creationist pagan views then by all means actually do it. Don't attack science and pretend that counts.


Maybe you should read more of the thread and notice when i said this:

Nu Sparta wrote:
Yes because all pagans are and should be viewed as delusional fans of harry potter. Just as all Jews,Islamist, and Christians should be seen as crazies that believe an old man lives in the sky waging his finger at them.

I'm not saying science is always wrong and never helps. Personally i find science to the complicated explanation of the spiritual and life forces that dwell within the world and the universe. Forgive me though if I'm skeptical of what scientist say the earth was like in a time they weren't, and claim humans weren't, around to observe.

That really has nothing to do with what I said, apart from where I corrected you on how to refer to followers of Islam. Indeed, I made a point of saying that what you think of science is totally irrelevant.

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Samuraikoku
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Postby Samuraikoku » Wed Sep 05, 2012 9:47 am

Nu Sparta wrote:Restatement: I don't think humans being intelligent to the point at which we are, highly more then many of the other species on the planet, was for no reason at all. I don't find it was for the reason of divine destiny and ruling over the planet as we see fit either, but instead as a more humble role in protecting and taking care of the planet.


Poking fun at the "protecting" thing.

But if you want a serious answer: Why must there be a role?

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Corieltavi
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Postby Corieltavi » Wed Sep 05, 2012 9:51 am

Deleted.
Last edited by Corieltavi on Sat Sep 08, 2012 5:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Nu Sparta
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Postby Nu Sparta » Wed Sep 05, 2012 9:52 am

Samuraikoku wrote:
Nu Sparta wrote:Restatement: I don't think humans being intelligent to the point at which we are, highly more then many of the other species on the planet, was for no reason at all. I don't find it was for the reason of divine destiny and ruling over the planet as we see fit either, but instead as a more humble role in protecting and taking care of the planet.


Poking fun at the "protecting" thing.

But if you want a serious answer: Why must there be a role?


If there is no role the whole point of human kind is pointless and therefore it should be exterminated.

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Samuraikoku
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Postby Samuraikoku » Wed Sep 05, 2012 9:53 am

Nu Sparta wrote:If there is no role the whole point of human kind is pointless and therefore it should be exterminated.


Why not exterminate every living species? Plants, other animals. Why just humanity, and why exterminate?

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Martean
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Postby Martean » Wed Sep 05, 2012 9:53 am

Norstal wrote:
Martean wrote:
Yes, yes, yes, no, no, about 2 centimeters (its in Ground floor and i live on the 1st one) no, hmmm in my district no but generally, yes.

And i said we werent doing so bad, but we have to compare with countries that are close to us and have more or less the same historic advanages as us. this countries are: All the EU, canada, USA and maybe Latin and central america.

Calling it "hell" is still an exaggeration.


becouse it's an exaggerantion
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Norstal
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Postby Norstal » Wed Sep 05, 2012 9:57 am

Martean wrote:
Norstal wrote:Calling it "hell" is still an exaggeration.


becouse it's an exaggerantion

Ellipsis everywhere.
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Postby Mad hatters in jeans » Wed Sep 05, 2012 10:03 am

Depends how you want to define hell, i would consider it defined as when we reach the point of no return (ie screw things so badly that they cannot be undone), we've done a sterling job of annihilating and threatening many animal species. I'm sure i don't have to link the obvious differences in income between "Developed" and developing countries along with stagnant social mobility in quite a few countries developing and developed alike. Oh and the destabilization of climates across the globe.

Course there's lots of good things such as incredible advances in science/technology/medicine within the past 50 years or so, a refinement of the more abstract ideas that wouldn't have been even considered a while back (ie human rights and social integration of different ethnic groups and improvements in treatment of minorities in general in at least a few of the developed countries). Despite screwing the weather systems over quite a bit we are at least aware of it and aware that it's a bad thing.

This although, pretty pretty bad isn't what i would call a point of no return at least as far as humanity is concerned.

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Nu Sparta
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Postby Nu Sparta » Wed Sep 05, 2012 10:07 am

Samuraikoku wrote:
Nu Sparta wrote:If there is no role the whole point of human kind is pointless and therefore it should be exterminated.


Why not exterminate every living species? Plants, other animals. Why just humanity, and why exterminate?


Because humanity is severally intelligent and intelligence without a role or point usually asserts direct dominance over everything I can and will never be satisfied and always strive to gain more things to put under its thumb. This turns the intelligence into a highly violent force.

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Samuraikoku
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Postby Samuraikoku » Wed Sep 05, 2012 10:08 am

Nu Sparta wrote:Because humanity is severally intelligent and intelligence without a role or point usually asserts direct dominance over everything I can and will never be satisfied and always strive to gain more things to put under its thumb. This turns the intelligence into a highly violent force.


Does the other animals' intelligence have a point?

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Nu Sparta
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Postby Nu Sparta » Wed Sep 05, 2012 10:11 am

Samuraikoku wrote:
Nu Sparta wrote:Because humanity is severally intelligent and intelligence without a role or point usually asserts direct dominance over everything I can and will never be satisfied and always strive to gain more things to put under its thumb. This turns the intelligence into a highly violent force.


Does the other animals' intelligence have a point?


No but they also are intelligent to the point of being a threat to the survival of this world and the rest of the universe if the human race manages keep alive that long.

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Samuraikoku
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Postby Samuraikoku » Wed Sep 05, 2012 10:12 am

Nu Sparta wrote:No but they also are intelligent to the point of being a threat to the survival of this world and the rest of the universe if the human race manages keep alive that long.


Then exterminate animals too. Leave no intelligent life in this world.

Doesn't sound so good, eh?

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Postby Farnhamia » Wed Sep 05, 2012 10:13 am

Nu Sparta wrote:
Samuraikoku wrote:
Does the other animals' intelligence have a point?


No but they also are intelligent to the point of being a threat to the survival of this world and the rest of the universe if the human race manages keep alive that long.

I'm usually pretty disdainful of people who say that we're insignificant in the universe and such-like clap-trap, but implying that humanity could endanger the entire universe is way out there. Way, way out there.
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Postby AETEN II » Wed Sep 05, 2012 10:13 am

Samuraikoku wrote:
Nu Sparta wrote:Restatement: I don't think humans being intelligent to the point at which we are, highly more then many of the other species on the planet, was for no reason at all. I don't find it was for the reason of divine destiny and ruling over the planet as we see fit either, but instead as a more humble role in protecting and taking care of the planet.


Poking fun at the "protecting" thing.

But if you want a serious answer: Why must there be a role?

There isn't. The only purpose a species has is to reproduce and conquer. We should be looking at options on how to colonize the moon, not be dug in a war fighting a bunch of suicidal illiterates. We don't owe the Earth a damned thing. We only owe ourselves to get off this rock and expand through the solar system to make extinction a very unlikely event.
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Nu Sparta
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Postby Nu Sparta » Wed Sep 05, 2012 10:17 am

Samuraikoku wrote:
Nu Sparta wrote:No but they also are intelligent to the point of being a threat to the survival of this world and the rest of the universe if the human race manages keep alive that long.


Then exterminate animals too. Leave no intelligent life in this world.

Doesn't sound so good, eh?


my bad that was a typo it should say "but they also aren't intelligent to the point of being a threat"

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Samuraikoku
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Postby Samuraikoku » Wed Sep 05, 2012 10:17 am

AETEN II wrote:
Samuraikoku wrote:
Poking fun at the "protecting" thing.

But if you want a serious answer: Why must there be a role?

There isn't. The only purpose a species has is to reproduce and conquer. We should be looking at options on how to colonize the moon, not be dug in a war fighting a bunch of suicidal illiterates. We don't owe the Earth a damned thing. We only owe ourselves to get off this rock and expand through the solar system to make extinction a very unlikely event.


I know there isn't. I'm asking why there must be.

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Nu Sparta
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Postby Nu Sparta » Wed Sep 05, 2012 10:19 am

AETEN II wrote:
Samuraikoku wrote:
Poking fun at the "protecting" thing.

But if you want a serious answer: Why must there be a role?

There isn't. The only purpose a species has is to reproduce and conquer. We should be looking at options on how to colonize the moon, not be dug in a war fighting a bunch of suicidal illiterates. We don't owe the Earth a damned thing. We only owe ourselves to get off this rock and expand through the solar system to make extinction a very unlikely event.


and here is my point proven. "Fuck the world do whatever we want as long as we benefit who cares?" Its this mentality making the world a "Hell on Earth" in my opinion.

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Samuraikoku
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Postby Samuraikoku » Wed Sep 05, 2012 10:19 am

Nu Sparta wrote:my bad that was a typo it should say "but they also aren't intelligent to the point of being a threat"


A threat to what? I would say cetaceans are a threat to what they eat, be that krill, or fish.

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Samuraikoku
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Postby Samuraikoku » Wed Sep 05, 2012 10:21 am

Nu Sparta wrote:and here is my point proven. "Fuck the world do whatever we want as long as we benefit who cares?" Its this mentality making the world a "Hell on Earth" in my opinion.


I think the whole main point is "we do what we do to survive". And even so, humans aren't Tyranids or Zerg.

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Nu Sparta
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Postby Nu Sparta » Wed Sep 05, 2012 10:24 am

Samuraikoku wrote:
Nu Sparta wrote:my bad that was a typo it should say "but they also aren't intelligent to the point of being a threat"


A threat to what? I would say cetaceans are a threat to what they eat, be that krill, or fish.


I fix a typo and you go "huh?" so ill just restate the whole thing for you

No but they also aren't intelligent to the point of being a threat to the survival of this world, and the rest of the universe if the human race manages keep alive that long.

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Samuraikoku
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Postby Samuraikoku » Wed Sep 05, 2012 10:25 am

Nu Sparta wrote:No but they also aren't intelligent to the point of being a threat to the survival of this world, and the rest of the universe if the human race manages keep alive that long.


How do you know they aren't? Remember, we evolved. They can evolve.

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