Why can't healthcare be free?

[Priory Academy USSR]

As a general rule, I think doctors do know what they're doing.

i was referring to the elected officials and other policy makers, as public healthcare is state run

Policy makers generally have little control of the day to day running of the health service. They mostly control the budget and how much paperwork must be done. Doctors, and other qualified staff, are who actually control your treatment.

[Birkinghamia]

Healthcare can't be "free" because nothing is free.

[Sovietta]

So yeah, why can't healthcare just be free of charge. Why cant it just be run by government? Shouldn't something that saves so many lives and is needed by everyone be free for the people?

Because capitalists can be so money hungry, that they want to oppress patients of medical care. I gotta agree with your question. I believe all hospitals should be nationalized and made free for the people.

People have to pay a lot of money just because they have cancer or even very sick!

[Revolutionarily]

no one owes you anything so do not act like you are entitled and form silly opinions based upon this notion

No, we aren't entitled, but it's a modern world and most nations have gone past the point of 'why don't poor people just buy more money?', and try to help those in need.

I personally have no problem with helping others and do not see a problem with some programs being there for those that need it. I do not think a healthcare system run by the government would be beneficial for anyone due to how inefficient and corrupt the government is. I just gave that response due to the tone i got from the OP. It is not like people in america who can't afford healthcare get rejected anyway. I know at least my grandfather was kept in the hospital for years while the family was on welfare.

[Armenia Reborn]

Odd first post for me, but I guess this caught my attention.

The issue is much more complex than any of the screaming voices out there would care to admit. I see a few rather substantial problems faced by our current government and nation regarding it:

- A stranglehold exerted by legal firms, lawyers, ect over any attempt to suggest Tort reform. When someone can simply slap a doctor, hospital, ect with a frivolous malpractice lawsuit for millions upon millions of dollars it ends up affecting the rest of us; liability insurance. This is not just a problem in the medical sector either, its universal. However when you have legal firms and their lobbying groups giving 50mil + in the last election cycle to politicians. I don't need to tell you how much they gave to Obama last election. (Hence the nice tax cuts they received in one of the stimulus packages.
- The Age gap. It's no secret that people my age (23) don't go to the doctor, have substantial medical bills, ect as frequent as the seniors in the country do. They are going to need money to pay for all their medical expenses and all of us who are already struggling to get a job out of college are going to pay for it. (They vote, we don't; they will vote themselves our money.) I however don't see where this magical money is going to come from... unless we print alot more money, and well you know what happens then.
- Federal regulation doesn't allow for Americans to buy out of state insurance. Essentially this results in a federally mandated monopoly in each state. Just imagine the price of healthcare if one could buy out of state insurance. (Apparently many health insurance companies like this kind of regulation when it ensures their money flow.)
- A rather unending debate about whether it is a right or a privileged. I for am hesitant to think of it as a right unless specifically stated so in the Constitution. (I don't place any merit in international law.)
- Our current "social" programs, specifically at the federal level, are a mess. IF they can't even get close to providing decent free healthcare for the VA, it's hard to believe this would be any different.
- There has been an attempt to do it on a state level, but Romney care in MA wasn't exactly appealing or efficient. This however is an issue for the states to decide at present provided we don't see a flurry of executive orders in the next 4 years making the next president's wishes become law.


I'm aware that the lack of any healthcare for some Americans is a big problem. Everyone agrees reform is desperately needed. Will it occur? Not as long as lawyers can make millions suing for the slightest medical malpractice incident and will donate big bucks to keep it that way. Not as long as insurance companies can use the federal government to ensure that they have a instate monopoly.

Giving the government the reigns to this doesn't seem like a good idea to me either. Anytime the ability to wield a substantial amount of power occurs, that power can simply be bought by the highest bidder. The same thing would happen to a national healthcare system run by the Federal Government.

[Raeyh]

No, we aren't entitled, but it's a modern world and most nations have gone past the point of 'why don't poor people just buy more money?', and try to help those in need.

I personally have no problem with helping others and do not see a problem with some programs being there for those that need it. I do not think a healthcare system run by the government would be beneficial for anyone due to how inefficient and corrupt the government is. I just gave that response due to the tone i got from the OP. It is not like people in america who can't afford healthcare get rejected anyway. I know at least my grandfather was kept in the hospital for years while the family was on welfare.

Preventative medicine is more important than curative. Sure, if you are dying, they will take you in no matter what, but it's better if it didn't get to that stage.

[Sondstead]

I apologize if anything of what I say is rehashed; I'm afraid I don't have the patience to go through two dozen pages, especially since, this being NSG, there will another dozen when I'm done with those.

Anyway, I understand that nothing can be truly "Free". But I believe that a single payer, tax funded system would work better, and ultimately drive down costs; all the numbers I have seen indicate that Canada and Europe pay less for health care, and presumably preventive care and regular checkups are easier and more affordable, and so future major problems can be identified and treated before they become such.

And furthermore, I do hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. People are dying in this country because they can not afford healthcare. That is a violation of those unalienable rights and so goes against the most basic of American values. Even if it's just a little, we can, should, and god willing, will, do more to protect those rights and those values.

[Priory Academy USSR]

No, we aren't entitled, but it's a modern world and most nations have gone past the point of 'why don't poor people just buy more money?', and try to help those in need.

I personally have no problem with helping others and do not see a problem with some programs being there for those that need it. I do not think a healthcare system run by the government would be beneficial for anyone due to how inefficient and corrupt the government is. I just gave that response due to the tone i got from the OP. It is not like people in america who can't afford healthcare get rejected anyway. I know at least my grandfather was kept in the hospital for years while the family was on welfare.

So you're for a general 'National Insurance' scheme where the government pays for you to go to a private hospital? Which is what Obamacare is, I believe.

[Enadail]

I personally have no problem with helping others and do not see a problem with some programs being there for those that need it. I do not think a healthcare system run by the government would be beneficial for anyone due to how inefficient and corrupt the government is. I just gave that response due to the tone i got from the OP. It is not like people in america who can't afford healthcare get rejected anyway. I know at least my grandfather was kept in the hospital for years while the family was on welfare.

Preventative medicine is more important than curative. Sure, if you are dying, they will take you in no matter what, but it's better if it didn't get to that stage.

Not to mention, when someone without insurance coverage goes to the hospital and can't pay the bill, its not like it becomes free. Everyone else pays the cost with increased insurance and healthcare costs. If everyone has to pay a little bit, it dilutes that cost, covers everyone, and everyone pays less.

In addition, you say the government is inefficient and corrupt... are you saying health insurance companies are a good example of clean, efficient working?

[Enadail]

I personally have no problem with helping others and do not see a problem with some programs being there for those that need it. I do not think a healthcare system run by the government would be beneficial for anyone due to how inefficient and corrupt the government is. I just gave that response due to the tone i got from the OP. It is not like people in america who can't afford healthcare get rejected anyway. I know at least my grandfather was kept in the hospital for years while the family was on welfare.

So you're for a general 'National Insurance' scheme where the government pays for you to go to a private hospital? Which is what Obamacare is, I believe.

And most NHS don't take hospitals and make them government run. Doctors stay private citizens, hospitals stay businesses, just the insurance company and payout changes from private hands to a public organization.

[Gaveo]

It can't be free because the government doesn't have the funds (or at least in the US) to do so. In the US we are down 16 TRILLION dollars and I don't think universal healthcare is going to help with that.

[Person012345]

No, we aren't entitled, but it's a modern world and most nations have gone past the point of 'why don't poor people just buy more money?', and try to help those in need.

I personally have no problem with helping others and do not see a problem with some programs being there for those that need it. I do not think a healthcare system run by the government would be beneficial for anyone due to how inefficient and corrupt the government is. I just gave that response due to the tone i got from the OP. It is not like people in america who can't afford healthcare get rejected anyway. I know at least my grandfather was kept in the hospital for years while the family was on welfare.

Can you explain then why the US government alone (not including the vast amounts spent privately on healthcare) spends far more per capita on healthcare than most countries with universal healthcare?

[Pesda]

So yeah, why can't healthcare just be free of charge. Why cant it just be run by government? Shouldn't something that saves so many lives and is needed by everyone be free for the people?

Welcome to Bevanland.

[Sondstead]

It can't be free because the government doesn't have the funds (or at least in the US) to do so. In the US we are down 16 TRILLION dollars and I don't think universal healthcare is going to help with that.

A bloated military budget, widespread tax evasion, and the lowest taxes we have had in a long time (During the, debatable, "Glory days" of the 1950s under the conservative President Eisenhower, the top bracket was over 90%, and yet with the top bracket being 35% today we are still stuck in the Reagan era mentality that taxes should only be cut, cut, cut. And back then at least Reagan knew government did have to pay if it wanted its programs to work.) has something to do with that.

[Detoqueville]

Why isn't food free? Why did I have to pay for my big screen tv? Why do looters and moochers deserve anything for simply breathing? Why shouldn't you have to work 16 hr days scratching out an existence on the Oregon Trail? For the truly helpless and incapable health care is free. For those that can work to pay for health care insurance or pay out of pocket it is moral good that they do. If anyone "gives" you something it robs you of the responsibility of "earning" it. A freedom from want is freedom from virtue. Work is a virtue. Providing for yourself is a virtue. Securing shelter, food, and health for your family is a virtue. If someone or some government does these things for you, then well you've been robbed of your potential self sufficiency. Dependency is not a virtue. Dependency is slavery.

[Gaveo]

Why isn't food free? Why did I have to pay for my big screen tv? Why do looters and moochers deserve anything for simply breathing? Why shouldn't you have to work 16 hr days scratching out an existence on the Oregon Trail? For the truly helpless and incapable health care is free. For those that can work to pay for health care insurance or pay out of pocket it is moral good that they do. If anyone "gives" you something it robs you of the responsibility of "earning" it. A freedom from want is freedom from virtue. Work is a virtue. Providing for yourself is a virtue. Securing shelter, food, and health for your family is a virtue. If someone or some government does these things for you, then well you've been robbed of your potential self sufficiency. Dependency is not a virtue. Dependency is slavery.

[Samozaryadnyastan]

Why isn't food free? Why did I have to pay for my big screen tv? Why do looters and moochers deserve anything for simply breathing? Why shouldn't you have to work 16 hr days scratching out an existence on the Oregon Trail? For the truly helpless and incapable health care is free. For those that can work to pay for health care insurance or pay out of pocket it is moral good that they do. If anyone "gives" you something it robs you of the responsibility of "earning" it. A freedom from want is freedom from virtue. Work is a virtue. Providing for yourself is a virtue. Securing shelter, food, and health for your family is a virtue. If someone or some government does these things for you, then well you've been robbed of your potential self sufficiency. Dependency is not a virtue. Dependency is slavery.

I'm fairly certain that most people can't afford major life-saving operations that health plans are unlikely to cover.

[Raeyh]

If someone or some government does these things for you, then well you've been robbed of your potential self sufficiency. Dependency is not a virtue. Dependency is slavery.

So instead of the government paying for your healthcare, you have a corporation do it as a job benefit? That's real independent there. Hardly anyone pays for health care out of pocket, so you can stop pretending that you are a rugged settler.

[Pesda]

Securing shelter, food, and health for your family is a virtue.

Indeed, so is securing the health of the starving family outside.

[Gaveo]

If someone or some government does these things for you, then well you've been robbed of your potential self sufficiency. Dependency is not a virtue. Dependency is slavery.

So instead of the government paying for your healthcare, you have a corporation do it as a job benefit? That's real independent there. Hardly anyone pays for health care out of pocket, so you can stop pretending that you are a rugged settler.

Look either way your screwed, if you look from your view a bunch of fat-cat business men control you or if government to control (from my view) bunch of burecrats decide if you get cancer screenings or not.

[Enadail]

Why isn't food free? Why did I have to pay for my big screen tv? Why do looters and moochers deserve anything for simply breathing? Why shouldn't you have to work 16 hr days scratching out an existence on the Oregon Trail? For the truly helpless and incapable health care is free. For those that can work to pay for health care insurance or pay out of pocket it is moral good that they do. If anyone "gives" you something it robs you of the responsibility of "earning" it. A freedom from want is freedom from virtue. Work is a virtue. Providing for yourself is a virtue. Securing shelter, food, and health for your family is a virtue. If someone or some government does these things for you, then well you've been robbed of your potential self sufficiency. Dependency is not a virtue. Dependency is slavery.

Bullshit. No one is self reliant these days. You use public roads, use public services, eat subsidized food, use products made cheaper because of government agreements. Dependence is not a virtue, but accepting you're not the reason everything good happens to yourself is.

And no, for the truely helpless, healthcare is not free: you pay for it. Everytime someone cant afford to pay for their healthcare, they're robbing you, because healthcare and insurance costs rise. If everyone has to pay their fair share (because you know, stuff like disease doesn't quite care if you worked hard to not contract it or not), everyone pays less, society operates better, everyone's happier.

This "self-made, reliant on no one" bullshit is something we Americans need to drop ASAP, as its as accurate as saying the moon is made of cheese.

[Enadail]

So instead of the government paying for your healthcare, you have a corporation do it as a job benefit? That's real independent there. Hardly anyone pays for health care out of pocket, so you can stop pretending that you are a rugged settler.

Look either way your screwed, if you look from your view a bunch of fat-cat business men control you or if government to control (from my view) bunch of burecrats decide if you get cancer screenings or not.

No, its a bunch of fat cat bureaucrats who's chief concern is profit and not a person's well being, or government bureaucrats who's only concern is solvency, which allows room for compassion. And either way, they don't decide if you get a screening, only if they will pay for it. The only difference being that private insurance systems cost more then public insurance systems, so a government bureaucrat can do more with the same funding.

[Marxian 1848 Utopia]

Why isn't food free? Why did I have to pay for my big screen tv? Why do looters and moochers deserve anything for simply breathing? Why shouldn't you have to work 16 hr days scratching out an existence on the Oregon Trail? For the truly helpless and incapable health care is free. For those that can work to pay for health care insurance or pay out of pocket it is moral good that they do. If anyone "gives" you something it robs you of the responsibility of "earning" it. A freedom from want is freedom from virtue. Work is a virtue. Providing for yourself is a virtue. Securing shelter, food, and health for your family is a virtue. If someone or some government does these things for you, then well you've been robbed of your potential self sufficiency. Dependency is not a virtue. Dependency is slavery.

Bullshit. No one is self reliant these days. You use public roads, use public services, eat subsidized food, use products made cheaper because of government agreements. Dependence is not a virtue, but accepting you're not the reason everything good happens to yourself is.

And no, for the truely helpless, healthcare is not free: you pay for it. Everytime someone cant afford to pay for their healthcare, they're robbing you, because healthcare and insurance costs rise. If everyone has to pay their fair share (because you know, stuff like disease doesn't quite care if you worked hard to not contract it or not), everyone pays less, society operates better, everyone's happier.

This "self-made, reliant on no one" bullshit is something we Americans need to drop ASAP, as its as accurate as saying the moon is made of cheese.

Note however where all the money came from to build roads, pay for the public services, use cheaper products, ect; the labor of various individuals. It is technically impossible to be completely self reliant because the government has mandated that no one can be. Ruby Ridge is an example of what happened to those who attempted to try doing it on their own. Even the Amish aren't exempted.

There is a prevailing assumption (perpetrated by the school system.) that somehow one is privileged to live in this country and in return must pay in terms of taxes for that privilege. That assumption has dangerous consequences. It essentially means that the government/collective owns you and whatever you think your own, not yourself. This means you can never be self sufficient, because if you don't fall into line, everything you have could be taken to pay for your "fair share."

Also note that notion of "fair share" is completely subjective and often is determined by who has more money to give to politicians to determine what is the "fair share." Many on todays progressive left complain about the rich dominating everything. They have a point, but they have no-one but themselves to blame for an ideology that advances their very complaint. A government that has the power to give out out special favors, subsidies, tax breaks, ect can be bought completely and utterly by the rich as it is now.

[Occupied Deutschland]

Haven't looked at the recent argument, but to answer the OP for what is probably the 9,999,999th time:

Because

[Felix Terra]

I would like it too, but the main argument is that it is OMFG EXPENSIVE.