Is the South racist?

by **Aidannadia** » Fri Aug 31, 2012 6:49 pm

The Rich Port wrote:
Aidannadia wrote:*agrees with white color*
*realizes that could be racist*

Remember: it's not racist if it's true.

Eh.
I do know this. Its racism if you so much as recognize someone is black, white, hispanic, or anything else.

by **Faerie Gatherers** » Fri Aug 31, 2012 6:50 pm

Most of the South is generally more conservative than most of the North. California is in the South West, which is a different part of the country. :u This sort of thing happens more often, or is at least reported more often, in larger cities. I think it's more to do with the size of the area and the officers themselves.

by **Tagmatium** » Fri Aug 31, 2012 6:52 pm

Aidannadia wrote:
The Rich Port wrote:
Remember: it's not racist if it's true.

Eh.
I do know this. Its racism if you so much as recognize someone is black, white, hispanic, or anything else.

No, it's only racist if you don't start the statement with "Some of my best friends are [white, Hispanic, black or anthropomorphic weasels]..."

by **Aidannadia** » Fri Aug 31, 2012 6:55 pm

Tagmatium wrote:
Aidannadia wrote:Eh.
I do know this. Its racism if you so much as recognize someone is black, white, hispanic, or anything else.

No, it's only racist if you don't start the statement with "Some of my best friends are [white, Hispanic, black or anthropomorphic weasels]..."

You are a god of wisdom. You could be Romney's head ~~puppetmaster~~ adviser.

by **New Rogernomics** » Fri Aug 31, 2012 6:55 pm

Tagmatium wrote:
Aidannadia wrote:Eh.
I do know this. Its racism if you so much as recognize someone is black, white, hispanic, or anything else.

No, it's only racist if you don't start the statement with "Some of my best friends are [white, Hispanic, black or anthropomorphic weasels]..."

'Some of my best friends are imaginary, kind of like you in fact....' , not sure how that would go down.

by **Parilost** » Fri Aug 31, 2012 7:04 pm

Having lived most of my life in Alabama, no, I do not believe that the South is, as a general statement, racist. Are there racists here? Absolutely, and they should be (and in most cases in my experiences, are) roundly mocked and defeated. But then, when I did an internship in Philadelphia, I found racism there as well. I also found it when I spent a year in Bangkok.

Racism is everywhere because people are everywhere. We fight their beliefs when and where we can and we keep right on a-movin'.

by **Tagmatium** » Fri Aug 31, 2012 7:05 pm

Aidannadia wrote:
Tagmatium wrote:No, it's only racist if you don't start the statement with "Some of my best friends are [white, Hispanic, black or anthropomorphic weasels]..."

You are a god of wisdom. You could be Romney's head ~~puppetmaster~~ adviser.

Nah, I suspect I might impact on the anthropomorphic weasel vote if it was publicly learned that I was part of Romney's team

We'll keep it hush hush. I don't want to have an impact on the Presidential candidate's chances.

by **Antoniland** » Fri Aug 31, 2012 7:56 pm

I live in the American south (Texas) and I have traveled all around the United States throughout my life and the south doesn't seem to be anymore racist than the rest of the U.S. And as a racial minority in the United States I know for a fact from experience that racism is for the more part rare here.

by **Socialdemokraterne** » Fri Aug 31, 2012 11:10 pm

Nordengrund wrote:I have seen very little prejudism down here in South Carolina except when it comes to homosexuality. Yes, South Carolina is still prejudice, but only when it comes to homosexuals.

That's just not true, I'm afraid. In South Carolina there are Neo-Nazis, Klansmen, Neo-Confederates, quite a few unsavory characters.

http://www.splcenter.org/get-informed/hate-map#s=SC

Now, let's zoom out of South Carolina for a minute and take a look at the bigger picture, see if we can find a trend. When we say "the South", what we're really referring to is the southeastern and central southern portion of the US, those states which seceded during the Civil War. When we say "the North", we're typically talking about the Union states from the same conflict.

Number of Hate Groups in Each Union State

Number of Hate Groups in Each Confederate State

Now, bear in mind that the above numbers are representative of all the hate groups lumped together, they're not all racially-based hate groups. These numbers are to give a clearer idea of the concentration of hate groups in general. From these numbers it seems like California is an outlier rather than a representative of the overall trend (if you'd like I can run the Q test to check, but I'm almost sure its number will be ejected from the series). Meanwhile, we see a much more consistent series for the former Confederate states (unless someone sees an obvious outlier that I don't, maybe Georgia or Florida). What this data tells us is there is an overall higher concentration of hate groups in the former CSA (or "the South" if you like), though there are certainly Union states which have their share of hate groups.

Anyway, enough of that. On with the real meat of the issue, the racist groups specifically. Let's break them down by category and include only the ones which are overtly racist in our final counts. I'll indicate the ones I'm including in red text for easier analysis on the part of the reader.

Number of Racist Hate Groups in Each Union State

Number of Racist Hate Groups in Each Confederate State

Now that we've separated out the racist hate groups, let's reexamine the data. Once again we see a few Union states with really high numbers (California no longer looks like an outlier in light of Pennsylvania and New Jersey, though a Q test might be necessary to be sure). And once again we see a very large number of former Confederate states with high concentrations of racist groups.

The data appear to indicate that the South has more racist groups per state. We can further examine the data to determine who has what sorts of racist groups in greater numbers, but the data overall seem to indicate a higher level of racism in the South. Don't get caught in the trap of thinking that this means that people from the South are inherently racist, these data merely indicate that there are more racially-based hate groups in the South.

Data Source:
http://www.splcenter.org/get-informed/hate-map#s=CA

Finally, the question is not "are there racists in the South", nor is it "are there racists in the North". The answer to both questions is obviously yes. The question which was asked is "is the South more racist than other places", and to simply state that there are racists everywhere, while leaving no one feeling blamed or attacked, ultimately serves as no sufficient answer to the question which was actually asked.

The data appear to indicate that while racists are indeed everywhere, they have a stronger organizational base in the southeastern and central southern US. The next logical question is to ask why this is so. We can opine about Southern nationalism, the ghost of Confederacies past, or maybe we can talk about poverty rates by state. After all, it seems reasonable to suggest that an environment rife with unemployment is a perfect breeding ground for tension.

Let's not get so lost in the effort to be polite that we fear pointing out a trend when it is visible. We can't hide from the data, but we can try to explain them. Why are there so many more racist hate groups in the Southern US? It's a worthwhile research question, don't run from it.

"Skallvia" · by **Maurepas** » Fri Aug 31, 2012 11:37 pm

To a point. Mostly in my father's and grandfather's generation.

My father, for example, was on the receiving end of the Civil Rights movement. When they integrated the schools, he was left as a poor white kid in an all black school, all of the wealthier white students moved to private schools. The beatings you see being administered to people involved in the Civil Rights movement? That was done to him, he was there and he was a target to let out their frustrations.

That does things to a person. And to varying degrees you find that attitude all over the South. That chip on their shoulder that somehow they "lost" the Civil Rights movement, and now every single new fight in Civil Rights is simply another round of the movement in their mind. From Abortions, to Gay Rights, to Contraceptives, to the Ten Commandments in the Courthouse. It's just another round in a fight they think they lost.

Idk if it's just Conservatives in general, but that's my reigning theory on why the South behaves the way it does, and I'm of the opinion that once everybody who remembers that movement is dead, the region and the country as a whole will be a better place.

Because regardless of race you rarely see this attitude in anyone under 30 in the South, it's just that people under 30 rarely get out to vote and rarely have their voices heard in the region.

by **Winland** » Sat Sep 01, 2012 2:27 am

Socialdemokraterne wrote:Number of Racist Hate Groups in Each Union State
Maine - 6
(1 White Nationalist group, 3 Neo-Nazi chapters, 2 Racist Skinhead groups) [all included]

Vermont - 1
(1 Neo-Nazi chapter)

New Hampshire - 4
(2 Radical Traditional Catholicism groups [anti-Semites], 1 Neo-Nazi chapter, 1 White Nationalist group) [all included]

Massachusetts - 8
(2 Anti-Gay groups, 2 White Nationalist groups, 2 Racist Skinhead groups, 1 Anti-Immigrant group, 2 Black Separatist groups, 1 Neo-Nazi chapter)

Rhode Island - 1
(1 Neo-Nazi chapter)

Connecticut - 5
(2 Neo-Nazi groups, 1 Black Separatist group, 1 White Nationalist group, 1 KKK chapter) [all included]

New York - 26
(7 Anti-Muslim groups, 7 White Nationalist groups, 7 Neo-Nazi groups, 1 Holocaust Denial group, 3 Radical Traditional Catholicism groups, 3 General Hate groups, 7 Black Separatist groups, 1 Anti-Gay group, 1 KKK chapter)

Pennsylvania - 31
(3 Radical Traditional Catholicism groups, 3 White Nationalist groups, 5 Neo-Nazi chapters, 2 General Hate groups, 5 KKK chapters, 5 Racist Skinhead groups, 1 Anti-Muslim group, 2 Racist Music organizations, 8 Black Separatist groups)

New Jersey - 47
(25 Racist Skinhead groups, 4 White Nationalist groups, 8 Neo-Nazi chapters, 9 Black Separatist groups, 1 Racist Music organization) [all included]

Delaware - 5
(3 Neo-Nazi chapters, 1 Racist Music organization, 1 KKK chapter) [all included]

Maryland - 17
(5 Neo-Nazi chapters, 3 White Nationalist groups, 4 Black Separatist groups, 1 General Hate group, 3 KKK chapters, 1 Neo-Confederate group, 1 Racist Skinhead group)

West Virginia - 15
(2 White Nationalist groups, 6 Neo-Nazi chapters, 6 KKK chapters, 1 Racist Music organization) [all included]

Ohio - 30
(7 Neo-Nazi chapters, 4 White Nationalist groups, 6 Racist Skinhead groups, 1 Radical Traditional Catholicism group, 2 Christian Identity groups, 2 Racist Music organizations, 1 General Hate group, 6 KKK chapters, 1 Anti-Gay group, 2 Black Separatist groups)

Kentucky - 14
(1 White Nationalist group, 2 Racist Skinhead groups, 2 Christian Identity groups, 5 KKK chapters, 1 Neo-Confederate group, 2 Neo-Nazi chapters, 1 Black Separatist group) [all included]

Indiana - 19
(1 Christian Identity group, 4 White Nationalist groups, 2 Racist Skinhead groups, 1 General Hate group, 1 Radical Traditional Catholicism group, 7 KKK chapters, 1 Neo-Confederate group, 1 Black Separatist group, 2 Neo-Nazi chapters)

Michigan - 25
(5 Neo-Nazi chapters, 3 White Nationalist groups, 6 Racist Skinhead groups, 3 Christian Identity groups, 1 General Hate group, 4 KKK chapters, 3 Black Separatist groups, 1 Anti-Immigrant group)

Illinois - 24
(5 Black Separatist groups, 5 Neo-Nazi chapters, 5 White Nationalist groups, 3 Anti-Gay groups, 3 Racist Skinhead groups, 1 Christian Identity group, 1 General Hate group, 5 KKK chapters)

Wisconsin - 8
(1 White Nationalist group, 4 Neo-Nazi chapters, 1 Christian Identity group, 1 Black Separatist group, 1 Racist Skinhead group) [all included]

Minnesota - 11
(2 Neo-Nazi chapters, 3 Christian Identity groups, 1 Black Separatist group, 2 Anti-Gay groups, 1 Radical Traditional Catholicism group, 1 White Nationalist group, 1 KKK chapter, 1 Racist Skinhead group)

Iowa - 4
(2 Racist Skinhead groups, 2 KKK chapters) [all included]

Missouri - 25
(4 Neo-Nazi chapters, 5 White Nationalist groups, 4 Racist Skinhead groups, 4 Christian Identity groups, 1 General Hate group, 3 Black Separatist groups, 4 KKK chapters, 1 Neo-Confederate group)

Kansas - 2
(1 Racist Skinhead group, 1 Neo-Nazi chapter, 1 Anti-Gay group)

Oregon - 14
(3 Neo-Nazi chapters, 3 Racist Skinhead groups, 1 Christian Identity group, 3 Black Separatist groups, 1 Racist Music organization, 1 General Hate group, 2 White Nationalist groups, 1 KKK chapter)

Nevada - 11
(1 General Hate group, 3 White Nationalist groups, 2 Christian Identity groups, 1 Black Separatist group, 3 Neo-Nazi chapters, 1 KKK chapter, 1 Racist Skinhead group)

California - 58
(11 Neo-Nazi chapters, 11 Racist Skinhead groups, 3 Anti-Immigrant groups, 9 White Nationalist groups, 16 General Hate groups, 7 Anti-Muslim groups, 3 Anti-Gay groups, 2 Racist Music organizations, 1 Christian Identity group, 4 Holocaust Denial groups, 1 Neo-Confederate group, 12 Black Separatist groups, 2 Radical Traditional Catholicism groups, 2 KKK chapters)

Number of Racist Hate Groups in Each Confederate State
Virginia - 31
(1 Anti-Immigrant group, 10 White Nationalist groups, 3 Neo-Nazi chapters, 5 Racist Skinhead groups, 2 Anti-Muslim groups, 1 Radical Traditional Catholicism group [included as anti-Semites], 7 KKK chapters, 1 Neo-Confederate group, 2 Black Separatist groups, 1 Anti-Gay group, 1 Christian Identity group [again, anti-Semites])

North Carolina - 34
(5 Neo-Nazi chapters, 6 Racist Skinhead groups, 1 Anti-Muslim group, 3 White Nationalist groups, 11 Black Separatist groups, 1 Neo-Confederate group, 7 KKK chapters)

South Carolina - 24
(7 Neo-Nazi chapters, 6 White Nationalist groups, 4 Neo-Confederate groups, 2 General Hate groups, 2 Black Separatist groups, 1 Anti-Gay, 5 KKK chapters)

Tennessee - 35
(7 Neo-Nazi chapters, 6 Racist Skinhead groups, 3 Anti-Muslim groups, 8 White Nationalist groups, 8 KKK chapters, 2 Neo-Confederate groups, 3 Black Separatist groups, 1 Christian Identity group, 1 General Hate group)

Georgia - 41
(7 Black Separatist Groups, 8 Neo-Nazi chapters, 13 KKK chapters, 3 Racist Skinhead groups, 5 White Nationalist groups, 21 General Hate groups [20 of which are Georgia Militia chapters], 3 Neo-Confederate groups, 2 Anti-Gay groups, 2 Christian Identity groups, 1 Anti-Muslim group)

Alabama - 32
(9 KKK chapters, 3 Neo-Nazi chapters, 2 Racist Skinhead groups, 7 White Nationalist groups, 8 Neo-Confederate groups, 2 Black Separatist groups) [all were included]

Mississippi - 40
(2 Neo-Nazi chapters, 1 Anti-Gay group, 4 Racist Skinhead groups, 11 White Nationalist groups, 2 Neo-Confederate groups, 15 KKK chapters, 6 Black Separatist groups)

Florida - 49
(7 Neo-Nazi chapters, 11 Racist Skinhead groups, 5 White Nationalist groups, 4 General Hate groups, 2 Christian Identity groups, 6 KKK chapters, 2 Neo-Confederate groups, 15 Black Separatist groups, 2 Anti-Muslim groups, 1 Holocaust Denial group)

Louisiana - 25
(5 Neo-Nazi chapters, 5 KKK chapters, 1 Christian Identity group, 6 White Nationalist groups, 2 General Hate groups, 1 Neo-Confederate group, 7 Black Separatist groups)

Texas - 39
(6 Neo-Nazi chapters, 5 Racist Skinhead groups, 4 White Nationalist groups, 2 Anti-Gay groups, 1 Anti-Immigrant group, 5 Christian Identity groups, 1 Racist Music organization, 4 General Hate groups, 1 Neo-Confederate Group, 2 Radical Traditional Catholicism group, 5 Black Separatist groups, 9 KKK chapters)

Arkansas - 21
(4 Neo-Nazi chapters, 2 Racist Skinhead groups, 5 General Hate groups, 2 Christian Identity groups, 2 White Nationalist Groups, 2 Racist Music organizations, 6 KKK chapters, 1 Neo-Confederate group, 2 Black Separatist groups)

Anyone else read this in the tune of The Twelve Days of Christmas?

by **Big Jim P** » Sat Sep 01, 2012 2:47 am

I have seen just as much racism in New York I I ever saw in Texas.

by **Yewhohohopia** » Sat Sep 01, 2012 3:48 am

The Realm of God wrote:
Yewhohohopia wrote:Not so much racist as unduly prejudiced against those from the North and the UK's Celtic nations.

My home country of Scotland is racist towards the English. Ignorance mostly.

Meh, only in a very pantomime-y way.

by **Ifreann** » Sat Sep 01, 2012 8:15 am

Nordengrund wrote:I have seen very little prejudism down here in South Carolina except when it comes to homosexuality. Yes, South Carolina is still prejudice, but only when it comes to homosexuals.

The fuck is prejudism?

by **Veladio** » Sat Sep 01, 2012 8:19 am

Is the South Racist: Collectively probably not.
Are People in the South Racist: Possibly. Just as people in the Northeast, Midwest, Northwest, and Southwest can be racist as well.

by **Prussia-Steinbach** » Sat Sep 01, 2012 1:26 pm

Carsantania wrote:
(Image)

There simply isn't enough facepalm on the internet for that comment, so I will simply provide the original.

There isn't enough air in my lungs to laugh at how appallingly ignorant some people can be. I'm sorry, but I think I know a bit more about this subject that you do.

by **Socialdemokraterne** » Sat Sep 01, 2012 7:30 pm

Winland wrote:Anyone else read this in the tune of The Twelve Days of Christmas?

I thought this so many times as I was counting. :lol:

by **Skywarp** » Sat Sep 01, 2012 7:48 pm

Farnhamia wrote:
The Rich Port wrote:
IKR?

He could just sit on it.

That wasn't going to be my suggestion but it'll do.

Why do I have a feeling that still involves those two objects meeting, just not in that particular configuration.

by **Skywarp** » Sat Sep 01, 2012 7:54 pm

Of course the south is racist, it can't help to be. Racism emanates from the soil as a vapor and invades ones every pore, turning every single resident into a raving Klansman or Aryan warrior....yes, even the non-caucasians.

by **Socialdemokraterne** » Sat Sep 01, 2012 8:01 pm

Skywarp wrote:Of course the south is racist, it can't help to be. Racism emanates from the soil as a vapor and invades ones every pore, turning every single resident into a raving Klansman or Aryan warrior....yes, even the non-caucasians.

All sarcasm aside, the data I presented above appear to indicate that the South has a higher general concentration of racist hate groups. Determining why this is the case is significantly less straightforward, however. I'm open to hypotheses.

by **Mavorpen** » Sat Sep 01, 2012 8:11 pm

Nordengrund wrote:I live in South Carolina and S.C. used to be one of the most racist states in the nation but it is now pretty welcoming and there is very little racism down here. Blacks and whites are now best friends here.

This... is satire...right?

by **Shnercropolis** » Sat Sep 01, 2012 8:14 pm

my only friend who hails from the south is the most liberal, non-racial person I know.

by **Socialdemokraterne** » Sat Sep 01, 2012 8:35 pm

Mavorpen wrote:
Nordengrund wrote:I live in South Carolina and S.C. used to be one of the most racist states in the nation but it is now pretty welcoming and there is very little racism down here. Blacks and whites are now best friends here.

This... is satire...right?

South Carolina has a relatively low number of racist hate groups among Southern states, clocking in at 24. That's still a moderate number once you start a comparison to the North, but for the South it's the second lowest number (only Arkansas has less with 21).

by **Mavorpen** » Sat Sep 01, 2012 8:37 pm

Socialdemokraterne wrote:
Mavorpen wrote:
This... is satire...right?

South Carolina has a relatively low number of racist hate groups among Southern states, clocking in at 24. That's still a moderate number once you start a comparison to the North, but for the South it's the second lowest number (only Arkansas has less with 21).

I could understand that it's "relatively low," but he paints it as this magical place where all the black and white people coexist and there is no racism whatsoever. Obviously, that's misleading.

by **Socialdemokraterne** » Sat Sep 01, 2012 8:42 pm

Mavorpen wrote:
Socialdemokraterne wrote:
South Carolina has a relatively low number of racist hate groups among Southern states, clocking in at 24. That's still a moderate number once you start a comparison to the North, but for the South it's the second lowest number (only Arkansas has less with 21).

I could understand that it's "relatively low," but he paints it as this magical place where all the black and white people coexist and there is no racism whatsoever. Obviously, that's misleading.

For sure, and I called Nordengrund on just that. They've got Nazis, Klansmen, Neo-Confederates, the lot. I just mean it might be interesting to ask just why it is that South Carolina and Arkansas have moderate numbers while so much of the rest of the south is punching the early to middle thirties, even into the forties.

Is the South racist?

From your experience, is the South more racist than the rest of the US?

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