Stalinism is not communism.

[CTALNH]

Dear me Wow all of you just don't like my ideological views only because I said I am a Stalinist?

Yep.

Do you actually think that I wouldn't want everyone to enjoy "communism" without the constant vigilance for counter revolutionaries or do you people think that I like Stalin because he killed a lot people?

Most of your posts, particularly the ones about "Trotskyites", "revisionists", "liberals" and "Mensheviks" would seem to suggest that you like Stalin for the killing.

No actually I hate killing and think that killing is bad but it is necessary for the complete enforcement of the Socialist law

[Zaras]

Do you people think that I like Stalin because he killed a lot people?

Yes, considering you said that all Mensheviks should be executed.

[CTALNH]

Do you people think that I like Stalin because he killed a lot people?

Yes, considering you said that all Mensheviks should be executed.

Read the post above you

[Of the Free Socialist Territories]

Yep.



Most of your posts, particularly the ones about "Trotskyites", "revisionists", "liberals" and "Mensheviks" would seem to suggest that you like Stalin for the killing.

No actually I hate killing and think that killing is bad but it is necessary for the complete enforcement of the Socialist law

"I hate killing, but let's kill all leftists that disagree with me!"

[Chinese Regions]

Yep.



Most of your posts, particularly the ones about "Trotskyites", "revisionists", "liberals" and "Mensheviks" would seem to suggest that you like Stalin for the killing.

No actually I hate killing and think that killing is bad but necessary for the complete enforcement of the Socialist law

Ends justify the means eh?
Too bad the end result of what Stalin wanted wasn't communism.

[CTALNH]

To clear all misunderstandings here I will explain what I see us a communist state.

For example my state CTALNH

I have a democratic system were:
The lowest form of government is the Workers Soviets. There is a Soviet for each factory/farm which is elected by the individuals. The Soviet usually contains five members.The Workers Soviets members are in for 1 year term. There is a Provincial council which is elected by the people and represents each province. Each province has about 50 Provincial council seats. There are only three provinces so in total there are around 150 Provincial council seats. The Provincial council members are in for 5 year terms. The Council of People's Commissars aka Politburo acts as the governing body of the national government. The Council of People's Commissars is elected by the peoples and there are 550 seats.The Council of People's Commissars is divided into two parts. 30% or 165 seats of the of the Council of People's Commissars is for the statewide proportional party representation. The other seats are for the directly elected electoral district representatives. Voters thus have two types of votes, one for a state party list of candidates and another for one to three individual electoral district representative.The 30% takes part in voting for laws and debate in the Council of People's Commissars.The Council of People's Commissars members are in for 5 year terms. The Council of People's Commissariat makes all the laws and controls the courts, police and other things, not the General Secretary(President). It takes two thirds majority for laws to be passed. The Council of People's Commissars passes the law and legislature.

If you take the time to read this you will understand that I am a democracy.

[Of the Free Socialist Territories]

To clear all misunderstandings here I will explain what I see us a communist state.

For example my state CTALNH

I have a democratic system were:
The lowest form of government is the Workers Soviets. There is a Soviet for each factory/farm which is elected by the individuals. The Soviet usually contains five members.The Workers Soviets members are in for 1 year term. There is a Provincial council which is elected by the people and represents each province. Each province has about 50 Provincial council seats. There are only three provinces so in total there are around 150 Provincial council seats. The Provincial council members are in for 5 year terms. The Council of People's Commissars aka Politburo acts as the governing body of the national government. The Council of People's Commissars is elected by the peoples and there are 550 seats.The Council of People's Commissars is divided into two parts. 30% or 165 seats of the of the Council of People's Commissars is for the statewide proportional party representation. The other seats are for the directly elected electoral district representatives. Voters thus have two types of votes, one for a state party list of candidates and another for one to three individual electoral district representative.The 30% takes part in voting for laws and debate in the Council of People's Commissars.The Council of People's Commissars members are in for 5 year terms. The Council of People's Commissariat makes all the laws and controls the courts, police and other things, not the General Secretary(President). It takes two thirds majority for laws to be passed. The Council of People's Commissars passes the law and legislature.

If you take the time to read this you will understand that I am a democracy.

First off, General is OOC, so your state is irrelevant here.

Secondly, that is absolutely nothing like what Stalin enforced in the USSR.

[CTALNH]

snip

First off, General is OOC, so your state is irrelevant here.

Secondly, that is absolutely nothing like what Stalin enforced in the USSR.

Yes that assessment would be very correct but I don't like Stalin for that but for doing what was necessary and his economic policies!

Also that post is an example of what I think is a communist state.

[Of the Free Socialist Territories]

First off, General is OOC, so your state is irrelevant here.

Secondly, that is absolutely nothing like what Stalin enforced in the USSR.

Yes that assessment would be very correct but I don't like Stalin for that but for doing what was necessary and his economic policies!

Also that post is an example of what I think is a communist state.

He didn't do what was necessary for the USSR, he did what was necessary to keep himself in power and hold back true communism.

[CTALNH]

Yes that assessment would be very correct but I don't like Stalin for that but for doing what was necessary and his economic policies!

Also that post is an example of what I think is a communist state.

He didn't do what was necessary for the USSR, he did what was necessary to keep himself in power and hold back true communism.

So if he had a government us I stated would you agree with me that he was a communist?

[Communist Quinntopia]

He didn't do what was necessary for the USSR, he did what was necessary to keep himself in power and hold back true communism.

So if he had a government us I stated would you agree with me that he was a communist?

But he didn't have a government like you stated, therefore we can't agree that he's communist.

[Malland]

Same difference.

[Voerdeland]

In my opinion, Stalin was a planner, a treasurer, a clerk, an organizer, but not a politician. He considered people to be nothing more than tools, and that way of thinking when combined with a desire for power just had to lead to a tyranny. His famous quote about death of one person being a tragedy and death of millions being a statistical number wasn't a cynical remark on the state of humanity. It was his actual mentality.

[CTALNH]

So if he had a government us I stated would you agree with me that he was a communist?

But he didn't have a government like you stated, therefore we can't agree that he's communist.

Well I say he was even with his totalitarian view he still was a communist.
He was part Lenins party.
He fought for the people before he took power.
And he was imprisoned many times for the sake of his comrades.

You people shouldn't forget that even if I am a supporter of democracy I still support totalitarianism in certain way.

[Zaras]

You people shouldn't forget that even if I am a supporter of democracy I still support totalitarianism in certain way.

Then you're not a supporter of democracy, you just have a fetish for power.

[CTALNH]

In my opinion, Stalin was a planner, a treasurer, a clerk, an organizer, but not a politician. He considered people to be nothing more than tools, and that way of thinking when combined with a desire for power just had to lead to a tyranny. His famous quote about death of one person being a tragedy and death of millions being a statistical number wasn't a cynical remark on the state of humanity. It was his actual mentality.

What you said right now came right of the mouth of Lenin when they voted for the next General Secretary.
Also me and Stalin share the same view about people that they are nothing but sheep needing a Shepard.

[Communist Quinntopia]

But he didn't have a government like you stated, therefore we can't agree that he's communist.

Well I say he was even with his totalitarian view he still was a communist.
He was part Lenins party.
He fought for the people before he took power.
And he was imprisoned many times for the sake of his comrades.

Just because he was part of the Bolshevik party, that doesn't automatically make him communist. And he imprisoned his comrades many times for the sake of himself.

[Voerdeland]

But he didn't have a government like you stated, therefore we can't agree that he's communist.

Well I say he was even with his totalitarian view he still was a communist.
He was part Lenins party.
He fought for the people before he took power.
And he was imprisoned many times for the sake of his comrades.

You people shouldn't forget that even if I am a supporter of democracy I still support totalitarianism in certain way.

It's not a democracy when you deliberately kill people whose vision of democratic governance differs from yours.

[Voerdeland]

In my opinion, Stalin was a planner, a treasurer, a clerk, an organizer, but not a politician. He considered people to be nothing more than tools, and that way of thinking when combined with a desire for power just had to lead to a tyranny. His famous quote about death of one person being a tragedy and death of millions being a statistical number wasn't a cynical remark on the state of humanity. It was his actual mentality.

What you said right now came right of the mouth of Lenin when they voted for the next General Secretary.

Yes, and in my opinion Lenin was damn right. At least once

[CTALNH]

You people shouldn't forget that even if I am a supporter of democracy I still support totalitarianism in certain way.

Then you're not a supporter of democracy, you just have a fetish for power.

Don't twist my words...
Totalitarianism is nothing more than taking the enforcement of laws to a more serious enforcement level.

That is what I support.

[Communist Quinntopia]

Then you're not a supporter of democracy, you just have a fetish for power.

Don't twist my words...
Totalitarianism is nothing more than taking the enforcement of laws to a more serious enforcement level.

That is what I support.

Definition of Totalitarianism: Please read.

[Zaras]

Then you're not a supporter of democracy, you just have a fetish for power.

Totalitarianism is nothing more than taking the enforcement of laws to a more serious enforcement level.

The level where you murder people and shut them out of the process of making laws.

Face it, Stalin was no better than the fucking Tsar from Eisenstein's Battleship Potemkin who sent soldiers to massacre civilians on the Odessa steps.

[Panageadom]

I think the missed point here is when anti-communists (such as myself!) argue that the USSR demonstrates the failure of communism, they mean one of two things:

1) That the USSR, as a communist state, failed, and hence communism is flawed (which you've eloquently shown is a false syllogism here).
2) That the USSR, as a state that tried to be communist, failed, and hence the struggle towards communism is flawed (which I hold is a legitimate argument).

I think it's telling that all the major countries that spring to mind that have ever tried to be communist, by self-declaration of intent at some stage, (admittedly, as something of a layman, the ones that spring to mind are the predictable examples of the USSR, the PRC, Cuba and that phase when Italy had a communist government), have failed to achieve either communist or liberal (in the Hayekian sense) goals, while states that have tried to be capitalist (the West) have at least partially succeeded.

Self-declaration of intent means little or nothing. North Korea describes itself as "democratic", so is it an example of the failure of democracy?

That's a fair point, but do you really feel that none of the examples of communist states were not, at any significant point of their development, trying to achieve a genuine communist society? Again, I'm a total layman, but I understand there was a fair amount of goodwill behind both the 1917 revolution and, to a lesser degree, the Chinese Civil War. Or is a more telling point that none of the revolutionaries with claimed communist content and the means to power actually were, under your auspices, true communists? In that sense, not only may communist society be unstable, but communist intentions could be.

[CTALNH]

Well I say he was even with his totalitarian view he still was a communist.
He was part Lenins party.
He fought for the people before he took power.
And he was imprisoned many times for the sake of his comrades.

Just because he was part of the Bolshevik party, that doesn't automatically make him communist. And he imprisoned his comrades many times for the sake of himself.

So would Lenin if he had ruled more after all Stalin wasn't the one that ordered the Tsars family executed and thrown in acid.

[CTALNH]

Don't twist my words...
Totalitarianism is nothing more than taking the enforcement of laws to a more serious enforcement level.

That is what I support.

Definition of Totalitarianism: Please read.

Hem a system of highly centralized government in which one political party or group takes control and grants neither recognition nor tolerance to other political groups.Isn't that exactly what I support?