Stalinism is not communism.

[Zaras]

Newsflash: you're wrong. Seretse Khama wasn't. Ergo, not everyone in politics is power-hungry. Ergo, shut up, you're making yourself look very bad.

LOL thats the only reason someone goes into politics.

Like I said, shut up. Generalisations like that are stupid.

I doubt Olof Palme went into politics for power as opposed to wanting to help people.

Seriously, shut up before you start sounding like Moving Forward Inc. and saying everybody's selfish.

[Of the Free Socialist Territories]

Newsflash: you're wrong. Seretse Khama wasn't. Ergo, not everyone in politics is power-hungry. Ergo, shut up, you're making yourself look very bad.

LOL thats the only reason someone goes into politics.

I take it you didn't actually read the Wikipedia article on Seretse Khama then, and just made an assumption about him.

[Divair]

Good to see a thread about this. Many non-communists don't understand that Stalinism is in no shape communism.

[Tunasai]

Stalinism contained one thing that classifies it as Communism, a centrally planned economy. Like it or not Stalinist Russia had a centrally planned economy, key to state communism

As Marx made clear, "state communism" is contradictory, as communism in the Marxist sense does away with the state entirely.

Did you read the OP? My point about stateless communism is in it.

I don't care how you twist it, State Communism is still communism

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communism

Communism, in order to achieve your Stateless Utopia goes through a series of steps in order to achieve that "state" of being. In order to do so either everyone must just jump up and agree or you must transition using State Communism and State Socialism, both of which you could classify Stalin and the USSR under. Fact is Communism has failed, its a utopia dream that looks good on paper but turns out bad in reality

[CTALNH]

LOL thats the only reason someone goes into politics.

Like I said, shut up. Generalisations like that are stupid.

I doubt Olof Palme went into politics for power as opposed to wanting to help people.

Seriously, shut up before you start sounding like Moving Forward Inc. and saying everybody's selfish.

Every body is selfish if we weren't we would be state that you want.

[Olivaero]

Newsflash: you're wrong. Seretse Khama wasn't. Ergo, not everyone in politics is power-hungry. Ergo, shut up, you're making yourself look very bad.

LOL thats the only reason someone goes into politics.

Oh yeah that's why when George Washington was offered King ship He accepted and ruled the USA as a Iron fisted dictator right?

[Zaras]

LOL thats the only reason someone goes into politics.

I take it you didn't actually read the Wikipedia article on Seretse Khama then, and just made an assumption about him.

Same way CTALNH deludes himself into thinking Olof Palme, Tage Erlander, Hjalmar Branting and Einar Gerhardsen were power-hungry dictators.

[Zaras]

LOL thats the only reason someone goes into politics.

Oh yeah that's why when George Washington was offered King ship He accepted and ruled the USA as a Iron fisted dictator right?

Even Washington was smart enough to realise that was a horrid idea.

Every body is selfish if we weren't we would be state that you want.

What? Can you be less incoherent?

So what if everybody's selfish? That doesn't mean it's admirable, or acceptable.

[CTALNH]

As Marx made clear, "state communism" is contradictory, as communism in the Marxist sense does away with the state entirely.

Did you read the OP? My point about stateless communism is in it.

I don't care how you twist it, State Communism is still communism

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communism

Communism, in order to achieve your Stateless Utopia goes through a series of steps in order to achieve that "state" of being. In order to do so either everyone must just jump up and agree or you must transition using State Communism and State Socialism, both of which you could classify Stalin and the USSR under. Fact is Communism has failed, its a utopia dream that looks good on paper but turns out bad in reality

So is capitalism and every ideology out there.

[Of the Free Socialist Territories]

As Marx made clear, "state communism" is contradictory, as communism in the Marxist sense does away with the state entirely.

Did you read the OP? My point about stateless communism is in it.

I don't care how you twist it, State Communism is still communism

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communism

As I have already said, as communism is a stateless ideology, state communism is a contradiction in terms.

Communism, in order to achieve your Stateless Utopia goes through a series of steps in order to achieve that "state" of being. In order to do so either everyone must just jump up and agree or you must transition using State Communism and State Socialism, both of which you could classify Stalin and the USSR under. Fact is Communism has failed, its a utopia dream that looks good on paper but turns out bad in reality

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libertarian_socialism

That's your argument about state socialism and state communism shot down.

[CTALNH]

Oh yeah that's why when George Washington was offered King ship He accepted and ruled the USA as a Iron fisted dictator right?

Even Washington was smart enough to realise that was a horrid idea.

Every body is selfish if we weren't we would be state that you want.

What? Can you be less incoherent?

So what if everybody's selfish? That doesn't mean it's admirable, or acceptable.

You are incoherent not me.
I said every one is selfish not that we didn't have idealists also even if they are idealists they all had privileges when they ruled!

[CTALNH]

I don't care how you twist it, State Communism is still communism

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communism

As I have already said, as communism is a stateless ideology, state communism is a contradiction in terms.

Communism, in order to achieve your Stateless Utopia goes through a series of steps in order to achieve that "state" of being. In order to do so either everyone must just jump up and agree or you must transition using State Communism and State Socialism, both of which you could classify Stalin and the USSR under. Fact is Communism has failed, its a utopia dream that looks good on paper but turns out bad in reality

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libertarian_socialism

That's your argument about state socialism and state communism shot down.

Thats why I said you are a liberalist you can't go directly to true communism because you will lose control and the status quo that you want to create will be shattered to pieces.

I mean the Utopia status quo.

[Tunasai]

I don't care how you twist it, State Communism is still communism

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communism

As I have already said, as communism is a stateless ideology, state communism is a contradiction in terms.

Communism, in order to achieve your Stateless Utopia goes through a series of steps in order to achieve that "state" of being. In order to do so either everyone must just jump up and agree or you must transition using State Communism and State Socialism, both of which you could classify Stalin and the USSR under. Fact is Communism has failed, its a utopia dream that looks good on paper but turns out bad in reality

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libertarian_socialism

That's your argument about state socialism and state communism shot down.

Wikipedia says otherwise

Libertarian Socialism, otherwise known as Anarchist Communism. Taking two opposite terms and putting them together doesn't make it work. How would you achieve this? The thing that links mainstream Stalinism to your precious Marxism is a centrally planned economy based off of need and equality, not education and work. The fact is, centrally planned economies always fail. At first everyone loves the idea but as other begin to work harder and some slack off people come to a disagreement over the quality of work. People are not made to be equal.

[CTALNH]

Wikipedia says otherwise

Libertarian Socialism, otherwise known as Anarchist Communism. Taking two opposite terms and putting them together doesn't make it work. How would you achieve this? The thing that links mainstream Stalinism to your precious Marxism is a centrally planned economy based off of need and equality, not education and work. The fact is, centrally planned economies always fail. At first everyone loves the idea but as other begin to work harder and some slack off people come to a disagreement over the quality of work. People are not made to be equal.

That were I come in and try to make them equal whether they want it or not!

[Norsklow]

*stagewhisper*

SPLITTER!

[Tunasai]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Communist_Manifesto

If I may link the 10 Steps of Communism from the Communist Manifesto written by Marx




1.Abolition of Property in Land and Application of all Rents of Land to Public Purpose.

2.A Heavy Progressive or Graduated Income Tax.

3.Abolition of All Rights of Inheritance.

4.Confiscation of the Property of All Emigrants and Rebels.

5.Centralization of Credit in the Hands of the State, by Means of a National Bank with State Capital and an Exclusive Monopoly.

6.Centralization of the Means of Communication and Transport in the Hands of the State.

7.Extension of Factories and Instruments of Production Owned by the State, the Bringing Into Cultivation of Waste Lands, and the Improvement of the Soil Generally in Accordance with a Common Plan.

8.Equal Liability of All to Labor. Establishment of Industrial Armies, Especially for Agriculture.

9.Combination of Agriculture with Manufacturing Industries; Gradual Abolition of the Distinction Between Town and Country by a More Equable Distribution of the Population over the Country.

10.Free Education for All Children in Public Schools. Abolition of Children's Factory Labor in it's Present Form. Combination of Education with Industrial Production.


Has a lot of "State" in it

[Zaras]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Communist_Manifesto

If I may link the 10 Steps of Communism from the Communist Manifesto written by Marx




1.Abolition of Property in Land and Application of all Rents of Land to Public Purpose.

2.A Heavy Progressive or Graduated Income Tax.

3.Abolition of All Rights of Inheritance.

4.Confiscation of the Property of All Emigrants and Rebels.

5.Centralization of Credit in the Hands of the State, by Means of a National Bank with State Capital and an Exclusive Monopoly.

6.Centralization of the Means of Communication and Transport in the Hands of the State.

7.Extension of Factories and Instruments of Production Owned by the State, the Bringing Into Cultivation of Waste Lands, and the Improvement of the Soil Generally in Accordance with a Common Plan.

8.Equal Liability of All to Labor. Establishment of Industrial Armies, Especially for Agriculture.

9.Combination of Agriculture with Manufacturing Industries; Gradual Abolition of the Distinction Between Town and Country by a More Equable Distribution of the Population over the Country.

10.Free Education for All Children in Public Schools. Abolition of Children's Factory Labor in it's Present Form. Combination of Education with Industrial Production.


Has a lot of "State" in it

That's the transition to socialism. You can't leap to communism in one go, you need socialism in between. Communism's endgoal is abolishing the state.

[Tunasai]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Communist_Manifesto

If I may link the 10 Steps of Communism from the Communist Manifesto written by Marx




1.Abolition of Property in Land and Application of all Rents of Land to Public Purpose.

2.A Heavy Progressive or Graduated Income Tax.

3.Abolition of All Rights of Inheritance.

4.Confiscation of the Property of All Emigrants and Rebels.

5.Centralization of Credit in the Hands of the State, by Means of a National Bank with State Capital and an Exclusive Monopoly.

6.Centralization of the Means of Communication and Transport in the Hands of the State.

7.Extension of Factories and Instruments of Production Owned by the State, the Bringing Into Cultivation of Waste Lands, and the Improvement of the Soil Generally in Accordance with a Common Plan.

8.Equal Liability of All to Labor. Establishment of Industrial Armies, Especially for Agriculture.

9.Combination of Agriculture with Manufacturing Industries; Gradual Abolition of the Distinction Between Town and Country by a More Equable Distribution of the Population over the Country.

10.Free Education for All Children in Public Schools. Abolition of Children's Factory Labor in it's Present Form. Combination of Education with Industrial Production.


Has a lot of "State" in it

That's the transition to socialism. You can't leap to communism in one go, you need socialism in between. Communism's endgoal is abolishing the state.

Ah finally someone admitting in order to have Pure Communism you must you authority to take everything away. I know its endgoal but the end does not justify the means. THIS, will always fail because no man or woman is willing to suffer through this hell. That is why Communism fails. Let me succeed or fail on my own merit. I will craft my future. If I fail then so be it, if I succeed then great. But I do not desire to trifle the success of those who have made their way in life, who have succeeded where I have failed

[CTALNH]

Okay I am gonna take a hour brake from the arguing because I have a head ache and in need of a shave I grow my beard all summer I hate to lose it.

[Voerdeland]

Ah finally someone admitting in order to have Pure Communism you must you authority to take everything away. I know its endgoal but the end does not justify the means. THIS, will always fail because no man or woman is willing to suffer through this hell. That is why Communism fails.

What "hell"? There's nothing hell-ish in any of these 10 points.

Let me succeed or fail on my own merit.

There's no such economic system, as there's no way to objectively evaluate one's "merit".

[Zaras]

Ah finally someone admitting in order to have Pure Communism you must you authority to take everything away.

Oh, for fuck's sake. This again?!

I know its endgoal but the end does not justify the means.

Yes it does.

THIS, will always fail because no man or woman is willing to suffer through this hell.

What hell?

Let me succeed or fail on my own merit.

Your merit plus your fuckton of privileges based on your ethnic background, race, family history, class...

Seriously, what is so hard about understanding that communism is about reducing injustice? Why do you whine about helping other people like a sociopathic right-winger?

[Norsklow]

Good to see a thread about this. Many non-communists don't understand that Stalinism is in no shape communism.

OR consider it a distinction without a difference.

[Zaras]

There's no such economic system, as there's no way to objectively evaluate one's "merit".

EXACTLY! THANK YOU!

You can't win/fail based on merit in capitalism, because capitalism involves exploitation and rewarding the wrong people. How can you be so clueless as to think communism is hell?

[Romanitea]

I don't care how you twist it, State Communism is still communism

'State Communism' is an oxymoron.

[Romanitea]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Communist_Manifesto

If I may link the 10 Steps of Communism from the Communist Manifesto written by Marx




1.Abolition of Property in Land and Application of all Rents of Land to Public Purpose.

2.A Heavy Progressive or Graduated Income Tax.

3.Abolition of All Rights of Inheritance.

4.Confiscation of the Property of All Emigrants and Rebels.

5.Centralization of Credit in the Hands of the State, by Means of a National Bank with State Capital and an Exclusive Monopoly.

6.Centralization of the Means of Communication and Transport in the Hands of the State.

7.Extension of Factories and Instruments of Production Owned by the State, the Bringing Into Cultivation of Waste Lands, and the Improvement of the Soil Generally in Accordance with a Common Plan.

8.Equal Liability of All to Labor. Establishment of Industrial Armies, Especially for Agriculture.

9.Combination of Agriculture with Manufacturing Industries; Gradual Abolition of the Distinction Between Town and Country by a More Equable Distribution of the Population over the Country.

10.Free Education for All Children in Public Schools. Abolition of Children's Factory Labor in it's Present Form. Combination of Education with Industrial Production.


Has a lot of "State" in it

And they're party policies, not a political theory. Saying that the Communist Manifesto defines what communism is is a bit like saying the Republican Party election platform defines what republicanism is.