Stalinism is not communism.

[Yorkopolis]

Yes and you seem to be forgetting the line where he says :"The revolution will be forged in a sea of blood..."

I read On Authority entirely and that line you just said there is nothing more but pure fabrication. I do not know what you read on it, maybe the Soviet version - which is obviously altered in 300 different ways possible - but certainly you did not read the whole thing.

Here, have a link to it and try show me where he said that including the entire paragraph. Now provide me with a good counter-source or your argument is null and void.

[CTALNH]

Not you too....
These people are saying that communism = anarchism which is inherently stupid

They are anti authoritarians which think that after the upcoming revolution whenever that may be (because I am sure us hell they aren't going to take up arms and cause the revolution because of their self righteous humanist ideas)will abolish the state without even having met the criteria of making the state wither away....

Exactly what Engels wrote on Authority....

And for reason I can't understand why they think Marx and Engels supported the Paris commune?....

Which were in fact against and warned them not to do it....But still in the end it was us Marx said it was "doomed to fail"...

I am not saying Marx didn't welcome the uprising but he was against its own foolishnesses and these kind of people....

Not necessarily anti-authoritarians, but anti-Stalinists. And nope. Stalin didn't even try to reach that point. And of course they know that after the revolution there must be a socialist state, but that does not mean the socialist state kills fellow revolutionaries(Like Stalin did).

Doesn't mean he was authoritarian. A person who wishes the state to wither away, cannot be authoritarian.

They didn't, because it was unstable and full of crime. Not because it was anarchic.

He was against the lack of socialism before the withering, and the amount of crime, not the anarchy.

What do you mean "not necessarily anti authoritarians"?

Next thing your gonna tell me is that they support violent revolution and complete "liquidation" of the bourgeois class....

This people is what Engels is exactly talking about....

And no Marx himself said that he did not support the Paris commune uprising because the people that controlled it where people like them and that they they didn't abolish the "capitalist" state and create a Socialist one....

[Kvatchdom]

Not necessarily anti-authoritarians, but anti-Stalinists. And nope. Stalin didn't even try to reach that point. And of course they know that after the revolution there must be a socialist state, but that does not mean the socialist state kills fellow revolutionaries(Like Stalin did).

Doesn't mean he was authoritarian. A person who wishes the state to wither away, cannot be authoritarian.

They didn't, because it was unstable and full of crime. Not because it was anarchic.

He was against the lack of socialism before the withering, and the amount of crime, not the anarchy.

What do you mean "not necessarily anti authoritarians"?

Next thing your gonna tell me is that they support violent revolution and complete "liquidation" of the bourgeois class....

This people is what Engels is exactly talking about....

And no Marx himself said that he did not support the Paris commune uprising because the people that controlled it where people like them and that they they didn't abolish the "capitalist" state and create a Socialist one....

Means that they recognize authority the time of the state.

They support violent revolution, but there is no need to kill every bourgeois out there. Especially now that 80% of the European populace is bourgeois in some way.

They generated a communist one right away, which was their problem.

[CTALNH]

What do you mean "not necessarily anti authoritarians"?

Next thing your gonna tell me is that they support violent revolution and complete "liquidation" of the bourgeois class....

This people is what Engels is exactly talking about....

And no Marx himself said that he did not support the Paris commune uprising because the people that controlled it where people like them and that they they didn't abolish the "capitalist" state and create a Socialist one....

Means that they recognize authority the time of the state.

They support violent revolution, but there is no need to kill every bourgeois out there. Especially now that 80% of the European populace is bourgeois in some way.

They generated a communist one right away, which was their problem.

And why shouldn't you kill them?

[CTALNH]

Yes and you seem to be forgetting the line where he says :"The revolution will be forged in a sea of blood..."

I read On Authority entirely and that line you just said there is nothing more but pure fabrication. I do not know what you read on it, maybe the Soviet version - which is obviously altered in 300 different ways possible - but certainly you did not read the whole thing.

Here, have a link to it and try show me where he said that including the entire paragraph. Now provide me with a good counter-source or your argument is null and void.

I grovel at you feet for forgiveness....

Lenin said it....

Still doesn't prove the the revolution shouldn't bloody...

[Yorkopolis]

I read On Authority entirely and that line you just said there is nothing more but pure fabrication. I do not know what you read on it, maybe the Soviet version - which is obviously altered in 300 different ways possible - but certainly you did not read the whole thing.

Here, have a link to it and try show me where he said that including the entire paragraph. Now provide me with a good counter-source or your argument is null and void.

I grovel at you feet for forgiveness....

Lenin said it....

I still do not believe your claims until I can get a true, viable source. And besides, if Lenin said it, then it is not orthodox Marxist but rather Leninist.

[Dimar]

Good to see someone with a clear vision

[Kvatchdom]

Means that they recognize authority the time of the state.

They support violent revolution, but there is no need to kill every bourgeois out there. Especially now that 80% of the European populace is bourgeois in some way.

They generated a communist one right away, which was their problem.

And why shouldn't you kill them?

Because killing possible workers is just stupid, and I'm not a communist of any kind.

[CTALNH]

I grovel at you feet for forgiveness....

Lenin said it....

I still do not believe your claims until I can get a true, viable source. And besides, if Lenin said it, then it is not orthodox Marxist but rather Leninist.

Screw it grovel at my feet I found where Marx said what I meant...
http://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/wo ... /11/06.htm

[CTALNH]

And why shouldn't you kill them?

Because killing possible workers is just stupid, and I'm not a communist of any kind.

I think Marx agrees with the revolutionary terror I propose....

[Kvatchdom]

Because killing possible workers is just stupid, and I'm not a communist of any kind.

I think Marx agrees with the revolutionary terror I propose....

I don't think that's true. Marx wouldn't support anything capitalist, and terror is capitalist.

[The De Danann Nation]

Stalinism is a form of Communism,a perverted form though.I myself lean towards the National Socialism.

[CTALNH]

I think Marx agrees with the revolutionary terror I propose....

I don't think that's true. Marx wouldn't support anything capitalist, and terror is capitalist.

http://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/wo ... /11/06.htm

Holy !@## I am right!

[Divair]

Stalinism is a form of Communism,a perverted form though.I myself lean towards the National Socialism.

No, it isn't. It is not stateless, it is not classless, and it is not currencyless. It is not communism.

[Zottistan]

NSG: every day, a fascinating and fresh topic.

[Kvatchdom]

I don't think that's true. Marx wouldn't support anything capitalist, and terror is capitalist.

http://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/wo ... /11/06.htm

Holy !@## I am right!

How do you know he wrote this? And what about it supports terror?

[The De Danann Nation]

Stalinism is a form of Communism,a perverted form though.I myself lean towards the National Socialism.

No, it isn't. It is not stateless, it is not classless, and it is not currencyless. It is not communism.

Yes it is.I understand it's the Communist version of the Middle Earth orc,but it's still Communist(not that all Communist are Stalinist.)

[Kvatchdom]

No, it isn't. It is not stateless, it is not classless, and it is not currencyless. It is not communism.

Yes it is.I understand it's the Communist version of the Middle Earth orc,but it's still Communist(not that all Communist are Stalinist.)

Nope.

[Divair]

Communism is anarchistic. That is a fact.

S#$# that means Engels and Marx died in vain trying to explain that its not anarchism.... and you people not having read read what Engels wrote "on Authority" explains why....
I blame Bakunin....

Source Engels and Marx tried to explain it is not anarchism.

[Divair]

No, it isn't. It is not stateless, it is not classless, and it is not currencyless. It is not communism.

Yes it is.I understand it's the Communist version of the Middle Earth orc,but it's still Communist(not that all Communist are Stalinist.)

No, it isn't. It doesn't fit any of the requirements for communism. How is it communist?

[The De Danann Nation]

Yes it is.I understand it's the Communist version of the Middle Earth orc,but it's still Communist(not that all Communist are Stalinist.)

No, it isn't. It doesn't fit any of the requirements for communism. How is it communist?

It's a morphed,hellish form of Communism.I'm saying Stalinism is a morphed version of Communism.

[Divair]

No, it isn't. It doesn't fit any of the requirements for communism. How is it communist?

It's a morphed,hellish form of Communism.I'm saying Stalinism is a morphed version of Communism.

Morphed implies it has some characteristics of communism. It has none whatsoever.

[CTALNH]

http://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/wo ... /11/06.htm

Holy !@## I am right!

How do you know he wrote this? And what about it supports terror?

The freaking last line says that we will drown the old world in revolutionary terror.....

[Of the Free Socialist Territories]

No, it isn't. It is not stateless, it is not classless, and it is not currencyless. It is not communism.

Yes it is.I understand it's the Communist version of the Middle Earth orc,but it's still Communist(not that all Communist are Stalinist.)

You didn't read the OP, did you?

[Cameroi]

the title of this thread is an absolutely true statement. that anyone should be ignorant of the fact, is simply ignorance.

the problem is with how loosely "communism" tends to be defined.
(which is far too often, simply anything that isn't capitalism or fascism. sometimes even anything that isn't capitalism period. obviously that degree of ambiguity makes any word useless)