Should America continue support of Israel?

[Conserative Morality]

This would be more convincing if we actually showed remotely the same level of "SUPPORT AT ALL COSTS!!" for...any other democratic nation. I wonder if Iran would be the boogeyman it currently is if we had, you know, not overthrown their democratically elected government to protect the profit margins of British oil companies.

To be entirely fair, we sided with the Iranian government first.

Then someone mentioned communists.

Things went south then.

[The House of Petain]

As long as they control our banks and media outlets, of course we should.

Er...

I mean....they are a staunch ally and friend in the region in our war on terror.

[Norsklow]

Arabs vacate Africa?

It seems to me that this wouldn't leave very many people in Morocco, Algeria, Tunisia, Libya and Egypt except for a few Berbers and Copts.

And where is this repatriated Arab population that's been in North Africa since the 7th century supposed to go?

Oh, I suppose Africans - the ones with really dark skins if you have never seen any - could go and live there.

As for the Arabs, as far away as possible. The far side of the moon for all I care. Their interests or ambitions figure in no positive way whatsoever on my road map for peace.

[Norsklow]

This would be more convincing if we actually showed remotely the same level of "SUPPORT AT ALL COSTS!!" for...any other democratic nation. I wonder if Iran would be the boogeyman it currently is if we had, you know, not overthrown their democratically elected government to protect the profit margins of British oil companies.

To be entirely fair, we sided with the Iranian government first.

Then someone mentioned communists.

Things went south then.

I don't know about Iran. Seems to me that the decision to oppose Khomeiny and his Shiites was a first class error of judgement. But again - I don't know.

[Conserative Morality]

I don't know about Iran. Seems to me that the decision to oppose Khomeiny and his Shiites was a first class error of judgement. But again - I don't know.

I'm talking about Mossadegh in the 50s.

[Saruhan]

Arabs vacate Africa?

It seems to me that this wouldn't leave very many people in Morocco, Algeria, Tunisia, Libya and Egypt except for a few Berbers and Copts.

And where is this repatriated Arab population that's been in North Africa since the 7th century supposed to go?

Oh, I suppose Africans - the ones with really dark skins if you have never seen any - could go and live there.

As for the Arabs, as far away as possible. The far side of the moon for all I care. Their interests or ambitions figure in no positive way whatsoever on my road map for peace.

And what about the Natives? You know, the Bebers who have been there since before the Black population crossed the Sahara

[EnragedMaldivians]

Arabs vacate Africa?

It seems to me that this wouldn't leave very many people in Morocco, Algeria, Tunisia, Libya and Egypt except for a few Berbers and Copts.

And where is this repatriated Arab population that's been in North Africa since the 7th century supposed to go?

Oh, I suppose Africans - the ones with really dark skins if you have never seen any - could go and live there.

As for the Arabs, as far away as possible. The far side of the moon for all I care. Their interests or ambitions figure in no positive way whatsoever on my road map for peace.

So you're either an insane black supremacist or you're very keen on some pan-arab space program, for whatever reason.

[Myrensis]

I don't know about Iran. Seems to me that the decision to oppose Khomeiny and his Shiites was a first class error of judgement. But again - I don't know.

Err, Khomeini came to power because we overthrew the democratic Mossadegh government and propped up the Shah as a dictator who had a fondness for "Reform via torture and imprisonment."

And the irony being, as Conservative Morality noted, we knew the Brits were exploiting the shit out of Iran and refused to support them initially, then they started suggesting that Iran might become EBIL COMMIES and we immediately went into "Kill it with fire!" mode. And it's worked out brilliantly for us.

[Norsklow]

And what about the Natives? You know, the Bebers who have been there since before the Black population crossed the Sahara

Leave them be, of course. What particular ground could there be against their presence?

[Conserative Morality]

So you're either an insane black supremacist or you're very keen on some pan-arab space program, for whatever reason.

I'm not going to lie - that sounds pretty cool.

Wait a minute...



This was their plan all along!

[Saruhan]

And what about the Natives? You know, the Bebers who have been there since before the Black population crossed the Sahara

Leave them be, of course. What particular ground could there be against their presence?

What grounds are there to force Arabs out then?

[EnragedMaldivians]

I don't know about Iran. Seems to me that the decision to oppose Khomeiny and his Shiites was a first class error of judgement. But again - I don't know.

Err, Khomeini came to power because we overthrew the democratic Mossadegh government and propped up the Shah as a dictator who had a fondness for "Reform via torture and imprisonment."

And the irony being, as Conservative Morality noted, we knew the Brits were exploiting the shit out of Iran and refused to support them initially, then they started suggesting that the Iran might become EBIL COMMIES and we immediately went into "Kill it with fire!" mode. And it's worked out brilliantly for us.

It wasn't inevitable that Khomeini would come to power after operation Ajax nor was it inevitable that he wouldn't have come to power had it not happened.

The Iranian revolution happened over 20 years later, there was no guarantee that the National Front would have survived the volatile Iranian political climate (especially given that it contained some Tudeh communists) and one of the main responsible factors for the revolution was the number of rural to urban migrants attracted to the cities during an era of rapid industrialization, who felt culturally misplaced and frustrated.

Not saying that overthrowing Mossadeqh was a good thing (it wasn't) but a revolution might very well have happened regardless; there's no way to know.

[Norsklow]

I don't know about Iran. Seems to me that the decision to oppose Khomeiny and his Shiites was a first class error of judgement. But again - I don't know.

Err, Khomeini came to power because we overthrew the democratic Mossadegh government and propped up the Shah as a dictator who had a fondness for "Reform via torture and imprisonment."

And the irony being, as Conservative Morality noted, we knew the Brits were exploiting the shit out of Iran and refused to support them initially, then they started suggesting that Iran might become EBIL COMMIES and we immediately went into "Kill it with fire!" mode. And it's worked out brilliantly for us.

A rather curious re-write of history. Sir, I think that Shahinshah translates as King of Kings, not Dictator. As for the idea of opposing any form of marxism by whatever means happens to be available, I'm for it - unless it's Uncle Joe v Hitler in which case I support Uncle Joe.

In my view, the mistake was in not simply letting Khomeiny be Khomeiny. Now, had he been a Sunni it would have been another story indeed.

[Antoniland]

-Deleted-

[EnragedMaldivians]

So you're either an insane black supremacist or you're very keen on some pan-arab space program, for whatever reason.

I'm not going to lie - that sounds pretty cool.

Wait a minute...



This was their plan all along!

[Jewcrew]

Given the fact that Israel has espionage operations in the U.S. and have indeed knowingly fired on American forces in the past (including an incident when a U.S. warship was sunk by the Israeli's for no apparent reason) I feel that it is prudent to assume that Israel can't be trusted. That being said I feel that we should cut off all military and financial aid to Israel.

America also has espionage operations in Israel. The two nations don't include each other in their highest circle of friends that don't spy on one another.

Information on the USS Liberty: http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jso ... 1967.html#

The USS Liberty was a result of negligence, intelligence failures and faulty equipment, but Israel had no reason to deliberately attack an American warship.

[You-Gi-Owe]

Just what the title says. They have fired on American military personnel twice in the past knowingly too. So what do you think NS?THIS IS NOT A RELIGION FORUM. It is strictly about America's support and whether or not you think it is a legitimate state. Once again not a religion forum do not start an argument about it.

Please cite the attacks, but ignore the attack on the U.S.S. LIBERTY, as a joint investigative teams concluded that it was an accident.

That said,

The U.S.A. should definitely continue to support Israel.
1. Israel is a functioning democracy.
2. While not always cooperative, America's and Israel's best interests lay in working together.
3. Israel is an effective listening post for news in the Middle East.
4. Israel is an excellent pawn for U.S. spying and military operations, insulating the U.S. from accusations of direct involvement.

[United State of America]

And the irony being, as Conservative Morality noted, we knew the Brits were exploiting the shit out of Iran and refused to support them initially, then they started suggesting that Iran might become EBIL COMMIES and we immediately went into "Kill it with fire!" mode. And it's worked out brilliantly for us.

Oh but it did. Not only did we guzzle up all that oil and knock out the domestic nationalists, we got yet another base for spying on the USSR for a couple decades. Then when revolution time came around Khomeni and his theocracy was the perfect figure to keep both the US population and our buddy Arab dictatorships in line. And then Saddam launched his war that decimated both populations. So it has been an enormous geopolitical benefit to the US.

[Norsklow]

I'm not going to lie - that sounds pretty cool.

Wait a minute...


This was their plan all along!

Oh I suppose I could live with a pan-arab space programme provided its a one way ticket.

Question: why would a black supremacist have to be insane,oh sayid?
Forgive a poor supposed abid for asking the question.

[EnragedMaldivians]

Oh I suppose I could live with a pan-arab space programme provided its a one way ticket.

Question: why would a black supremacist have to be insane,oh sayid?
Forgive a poor supposed abid for asking the question.

Well mostly, I just think they're bigoted, like white supremacists. But once you start talking about expelling Arabs out of Tunisia and repopulating it with solely dark skinned Africans, you go from run of the mill "I don't like them types" racism towards the insane end of the spectrum.

[Jewcrew]

Oh I suppose I could live with a pan-arab space programme provided its a one way ticket.

Question: why would a black supremacist have to be insane,oh sayid?
Forgive a poor supposed abid for asking the question.

Well mostly, I just think they're bigoted, like white supremacists. But once you start talking about expelling Arabs out of Tunisia and repopulating it with solely dark skinned Africans, you go from run of the mill "I don't like them types" racism towards the insane end of the spectrum.

Well, that's what the Arabs did in North Africa (albeit more violently). What's wrong with reversing their colonialism? Or should only white people reverse their colonialism?

[Conserative Morality]

Well, that's what the Arabs did in North Africa (albeit more violently). What's wrong with reversing their colonialism? Or should only white people reverse their colonialism?

...

What?

The Arabs converted and conquered North Africa. They didn't expel its inhabitants.

[Jewcrew]

Well, that's what the Arabs did in North Africa (albeit more violently). What's wrong with reversing their colonialism? Or should only white people reverse their colonialism?

...

What?

The Arabs converted and conquered North Africa. They didn't expel its inhabitants.

You forgot the slaughters.

North Africa used to be made up of... you know... Africans.

Today it is primarily Arab due to the colonialism and genocide that the Arabs perpetrated. Muhammed preached the black people were inferior, and his followers carried out his orders to slaughter Africans. They still do this today, it just gets ignored.

[EnragedMaldivians]

Well mostly, I just think they're bigoted, like white supremacists. But once you start talking about expelling Arabs out of Tunisia and repopulating it with solely dark skinned Africans, you go from run of the mill "I don't like them types" racism towards the insane end of the spectrum.

Well, that's what the Arabs did in North Africa (albeit more violently). What's wrong with reversing their colonialism? Or should only white people reverse their colonialism?

What CM said. And I don't recall asking or condoning for white people to be expelled from anywhere.

[Jewcrew]

Well, that's what the Arabs did in North Africa (albeit more violently). What's wrong with reversing their colonialism? Or should only white people reverse their colonialism?

What CM said. And I don't recall asking or condoning for white people to be expelled from anywhere.

So what should happen to the Israelis, who make up a majority in the territory they control?