California May Ban "Gay Conversion" Therapy

[Nidaria]

Could you direct me to the right place? I am terrible with search engines, and I cannot bring anything up even remotely related to the subject at hand. Thank you.

If you can't do it then chances are it doesn't exist.

I said "remotely related to the subject at hand." That means both sides. Goodnight, kind sir.

[Madredia]

Even if one assumes that gay conversion therapy doesn't work, it seems silly to ban it outright. Should we ban homeopathy and horoscopes as well?

EXACTLY MAN! Take away their licenses maybe, but you can't make it illegal.

[Samuraikoku]

Goodnight, kind sir.

By the Emperor, we've won!

[Mavorpen]

So what you're saying is... you've been making up s*** this entire time.

No, I have been using my knowledge of morality and my powers of reasoning. Those are most necessary in debates, mind you.

And yet they're useless in a debate about science. You made claims that gay conversions work, a scientific claim. You have no scientific evidence, even admitting so. Thus, you made shit up.

Moreover, you seem to have hinted that your morals and "reason" on this subject was due to in part the scientific evidence. Since there is none, your moral and "reason" based arguments are useless. In other words, you've lost.

[Imsogone]

No. Bring a source about gay conversion therapy not being torture, and being successful.

I gave you mine. Ball's on your court.

Could you direct me to the right place? I am terrible with search engines, and I cannot bring anything up even remotely related to the subject at hand. Thank you.

Funny, all I did was type "gay conversion therapy" in Google and got 44 pages of references. You have to do a bit of sifting to sort out the opinion from the fact, but it's all there.

[Nidaria]

No, I have been using my knowledge of morality and my powers of reasoning. Those are most necessary in debates, mind you.

Please excuse my bluntness, but so far you've shown neither.

Excuse my frank opinion, but you would make a horribly psychologist. I would not be able to debate at all without both.

[Samuraikoku]

Could you direct me to the right place? I am terrible with search engines, and I cannot bring anything up even remotely related to the subject at hand. Thank you.

Funny, all I did was type "gay conversion therapy" in Google and got 44 pages of references. You have to do a bit of sifting to sort out the opinion from the fact, but it's all there.

This precise point is why I added my last comment to your thread, Imsogone.

[Samuraikoku]

Please excuse my bluntness, but so far you've shown neither.

Excuse my frank opinion, but you would make a horribly psychologist. I would not be able to debate at all without both.

I'm not a psychologist, I'm a lawyer.

And a Samurai. And a Jedi Knight. And a Paladin. And a Space Marine.

And whatever heroic character is needed to fight evil.

[Nidaria]

Goodnight, kind sir.

By the Emperor, we've won!

On the contrary, I shall return to fight another day.

[Desperate Measures]

No. Bring a source about gay conversion therapy not being torture, and being successful.

I gave you mine. Ball's on your court.

Could you direct me to the right place? I am terrible with search engines, and I cannot bring anything up even remotely related to the subject at hand. Thank you.

wow

[Norstal]

Even if one assumes that gay conversion therapy doesn't work, it seems silly to ban it outright. Should we ban homeopathy and horoscopes as well?

Horoscopes is not a medical practice and if a (non-homeopathy) practitioner prescribes homeopathy as a cure for any illness, their license better be taken off.

[Samuraikoku]

By the Emperor, we've won!

On the contrary, I shall return to fight another day.

"We'll be back" Necron rule. Bah.

We'll be waiting...

"... And we shall know no fear."

[Northern Dominus]

Even if one assumes that gay conversion therapy doesn't work, it seems silly to ban it outright. Should we ban homeopathy and horoscopes as well?

Homeopathy and Horoscopes rarely drive people to commit suicide. Conversion therapy however does with frightening regularity.

[Northern Dominus]

On the contrary, I shall return to fight another day.

"We'll be back" Necron rule. Bah.

We'll be waiting...

"... And we shall know no fear."

For we are the meanest muthas in the valley...

And we carry ugly sticks. Big ones with nails driven through them.

[Madredia]

So to make it clear, the Bill would only remove licenses, but a pastor for example, would be free to have counseling sessions with a homosexual to attempt in an attempt to change them. Am I right?

[Samuraikoku]

"We'll be back" Necron rule. Bah.

We'll be waiting...

"... And we shall know no fear."

For we are the meanest muthas in the valley...

And we carry ugly sticks. Big ones with nails driven through them.

Where there is uncertainty, I shall bring light
Where there is doubt, I shall sow faith
Where there is shame, I shall point atonement
Where there is rage, I shall show its course
My word in the soul shall be as my bolter in the field.

[Imsogone]

So what you're saying is... you've been making up s*** this entire time.

No, I have been using my knowledge of morality and my powers of reasoning. Those are most necessary in debates, mind you.

Mmm. You've been using your opinions about morality and your reasoning ability.

Opinions are not facts.

Using opinion in the place of fact in a debate, no matter how good your reasoning ability is, is useless.

Give me facts that have been scientifically determined and peer-reviewed by reputable scientific journals. Don't tailor the facts to suit your opinions. Don't carefully select for facts that support you and conveniently eliminate facts that go counter to what you want to believe.

If you wish to convince me of the validity of anything you have to say, you have to have facts.

If you've pulled it out of your ass ... or thin air ... it's a no go.

[Quebec and Atlantic Canada]

Goodnight, kind sir.

By the Emperor, we've won!

Even the Tunisians are celebrating!

[Norstal]

So to make it clear, the Bill would only remove licenses, but a pastor for example, would be free to have counseling sessions with a homosexual to attempt in an attempt to change them. Am I right?

Unlicensed practitioner can still do the therapy as long as they're not performing tortures.

[Northern Dominus]

For we are the meanest muthas in the valley...

And we carry ugly sticks. Big ones with nails driven through them.

Where there is uncertainty, I shall bring light
Where there is doubt, I shall sow faith
Where there is shame, I shall point atonement
Where there is rage, I shall show its course
My word in the soul shall be as my bolter in the field.

And my ugly stick shall whacketh the troll till there is a multitude of chunky salsa.

[Madredia]

So to make it clear, the Bill would only remove licenses, but a pastor for example, would be free to have counseling sessions with a homosexual to attempt in an attempt to change them. Am I right?

Unlicensed practitioner can still do the therapy as long as they're not performing tortures.

Alright great then. That makes perfect sense.

[Grenartia]

So to make it clear, the Bill would only remove licenses, but a pastor for example, would be free to have counseling sessions with a homosexual to attempt in an attempt to change them. Am I right?

Still, praying the gay away doesn't seem to work...

No. Bring a source about gay conversion therapy not being torture, and being successful.

I gave you mine. Ball's on your court.

Could you direct me to the right place? I am terrible with search engines, and I cannot bring anything up even remotely related to the subject at hand. Thank you.

When making positive claims (i.e., something is X, or X is Y), the burden of proof falls on the person making the claims, not the person disputing them.

I love how Nidaria is practically the only one here to keep calm and defend his points without insults.

Excuse me for feeling attacked by people claiming I'm defective, invalid, or mentally ill. That I shouldn't exist, that I'm a stain on divine creation, that I deserve to live in fear.

That tends to make me a little upset.

I'm used to it. Still doesn't excuse it, but I don't get worked up about it.

[Sidhae]

Please explain, how would one "contribute" to this kind of discussion? Or why would anyone even want to contribute anything to this kind of "discussion"?

What I see here is a bunch of people with a very vague understanding of the issue venting their negativity and anger the only way they know. They seem to feel like dousing the opponent in verbal shit will contribute anything to the actual cause, at least I can see no other reason for them to do that with such zeal. It's probably their way of silencing their conscience about not actually being able or capable of doing anything for their cause for real. Arguing and being argued against must give them the feeling that their opinions actually matter to someone, even if it's only another random anonymous nobody on the Internet. And when they are done arguing, having achieved nothing with it, they get back to their petty little lives and be the quiet little drones they are again until the next evening or coffee break.

I really don't see why I should "contribute" anything to either side, so I'll rather just stick to playing Nietzsche and occasionally interrupt the "discussion" with some sarcastic asshole comment. That's my way of venting.

Don't like arguing? Don't argue. Playing Nietzsche doesn't help you.

What gives you the impression that I need any help, friend?

I don't mind a decent debate for a cause where my opinion might actually matter, but I certainly rather just play Nietzsche in these debates, where the level of communication culture approximately equates that of retarded 6-year-olds on speed. So far, I haven't even seen any actual arguments here, just two sides repeating their opinions in different formulations ad nauseam and using mainly ad-hominem "arguments" and trash talk to silence the opposition. Frankly, I'm pleasantly surprised there hasn't been a single Godwin over all these pages yet.

[Sigoynere]

I'd march in a gay parade given the chance, but what right does the government have interfering with such an enterprise? I don't think "gay conversion" therapy should be de jure illegal, after all it's becoming of de facto illegal is just common sense, and will develop given the time.

[Samuraikoku]

What gives you the impression that I need any help, friend?

I don't mind a decent debate for a cause where my opinion might actually matter, but I certainly rather just play Nietzsche in these debates, where the level of communication culture approximately equates that of retarded 6-year-olds on speed. So far, I haven't even seen any actual arguments here, just two sides repeating their opinions in different formulations ad nauseam and using mainly ad-hominem "arguments" and trash talk to silence the opposition. Frankly, I'm pleasantly surprised there hasn't been a single Godwin over all these pages yet.

Obviously you've missed my comments.