Jewish Discussion Thread

[Menassa]

Seems a bit oxymoronic especially this part:


A Mitzvah, is a commandment given by God and by fulfilling this commandment a Jew lives their lifestyle in accordance with God's wishes and comes close to him.

To say my Bar Mitzvah (which is a ceremony about accepting Mitzvahs, hence the phrase) was without God... seems a bit odd.

As I understand it, circumcision was the commandment. All the extra stuff is all cultural.
Most likely, it's the secularisation of traditions that were formerly religious ceremonies.
Perhaps analagous to what we see with Weddings & Christmas in Europe.

Bar Mitzvah cerimony is rooted in the Oral Law.
These 'cultures' are almost always based off of something religious.

[Sedikal]

As I understand it, circumcision was the commandment. All the extra stuff is all cultural.
Most likely, it's the secularisation of traditions that were formerly religious ceremonies.
Perhaps analagous to what we see with Weddings & Christmas in Europe.

Bar Mitzvah cerimony is rooted in the Oral Law.
These 'cultures' are almost always based off of something religious.

Doesn't mean you can't make them secular just as you see with Easter and Christmas.

[Menassa]

Bar Mitzvah cerimony is rooted in the Oral Law.
These 'cultures' are almost always based off of something religious.

Doesn't mean you can't make them secular just as you see with Easter and Christmas.

You can do whatever you want.
But that doesn't mean it has to make any sort of sense.

[Conscentia]

As I understand it, circumcision was the commandment. All the extra stuff is all cultural.
Most likely, it's the secularisation of traditions that were formerly religious ceremonies.
Perhaps analagous to what we see with Weddings & Christmas in Europe.

Bar Mitzvah cerimony is rooted in the Oral Law.
These 'cultures' are almost always based off of something religious.

Oral Law is tradition. It's the accompanying traditional interpretation of the books.

Doesn't mean you can't make them secular just as you see with Easter and Christmas.

You can do whatever you want.
But that doesn't mean it has to make any sort of sense.

Makes more sense to say "I do this because it's tradition - it has been practised by my people for centuries" than to say "I do think because a book of myths told me to".

[Menassa]

Bar Mitzvah cerimony is rooted in the Oral Law.
These 'cultures' are almost always based off of something religious.

Oral Law is tradition.

Religious Tradition.

You can do whatever you want.
But that doesn't mean it has to make any sort of sense.

Makes more sense to say "I do this because it's tradition - it has been practised by my people for centuries" than to say "I do think because a book of myths told me to".

And?

[Conscentia]

Oral Law is tradition.

Religious Tradition.

Tradition that the humanists choose to secularise.

Makes more sense to say "I do this because it's tradition - it has been practised by my people for centuries" than to say "I do think because a book of myths told me to".

And?

It was you who was making the point.

[Menassa]

Religious Tradition.

Tradition that the humanists choose to secularise.

Oxymoronically

And?

It was you who was making the point.

Pardon?

[Leningrad Union]

Religious Tradition.

Tradition that the humanists choose to secularise.

And?

It was you who was making the point.

Are you Jewish

[Conscentia]

Tradition that the humanists choose to secularise.

Oxymoronically

I've explained to you already that it's not.

Look, from the humanist perspective, all the stuff originated with humans, not god. It therefore makes sense to continue it without god.

It was you who was making the point.

Pardon?

Scroll Up.

[Conscentia]

Tradition that the humanists choose to secularise.

It was you who was making the point.

Are you Jewish

No. Why do you ask?

[Menassa]

Oxymoronically

I've explained to you already that it's not.

Look, from the humanist perspective, all the stuff originated with humans, not god. It therefore makes sense to continue it without god.

Regardless of how it originated it was meant, especially for the commandments to be additionally with God.

[Leningrad Union]

Are you Jewish

No. Why do you ask?

Oh I was just curious lol

[Conscentia]

I've explained to you already that it's not.
Look, from the humanist perspective, all the stuff originated with humans, not god. It therefore makes sense to continue it without god.

Regardless of how it originated it was meant, especially for the commandments to be additionally with God.

They do not disregard the scripture. They (correctly) regard the myths and traditional laws to be of great significance to Jewish culture. People may value the contents of scripture to be a value for reasons other than "god told us to".

[Conscentia]

No. Why do you ask?

Oh I was just curious lol

Why?

[Menassa]

Regardless of how it originated it was meant, especially for the commandments to be additionally with God.

They do not disregard the scripture. They (correctly) regard the myths and traditional laws to be of great significance to Jewish culture. People may value the contents of scripture to be a value for reasons other than "god told to".

The Tradition is based off of thousands of years of religion as well.
"I do it because of my ancestors."
Do you believe in God because of your ancestors?

They've excluded the Vital part of the program, and that's excluding their desires for the continuation of their 'denomination.'

[Leningrad Union]

Oh I was just curious lol

Why?

Is there ever a reason for curiosity?

[Conscentia]

They do not disregard the scripture. They (correctly) regard the myths and traditional laws to be of great significance to Jewish culture. People may value the contents of scripture to be a value for reasons other than "god told to".

The Tradition is based off of thousands of years of religion as well.
"I do it because of my ancestors."

And the religion has it's basis in cultural myths.

Do you believe in God because of your ancestors?

I do not believe in what I am incapable of believing.

They've excluded the Vital part of the program, and that's excluding their desires for the continuation of their 'denomination.'

See above.

It's a Jewish philosophical movement, not a religious denomination.

[Conscentia]

Why?

Is there ever a reason for curiosity?

There is always something to rouse one's curiosity. (Cause & Effect)
If my mere presence here was enough, you'd have asked earlier.

[Menassa]

The Tradition is based off of thousands of years of religion as well.
"I do it because of my ancestors."

And the religion has it's basis in cultural myths.

Do you believe in God because of your ancestors?

I do not believe in what I am incapable of believing.

That paragraph was meant to be together.

They've excluded the Vital part of the program, and that's excluding their desires for the continuation of their 'denomination.'

See above.

It's a Jewish philosophical movement, not a religious denomination.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_religious_movements#Modern_movements_or_denominations

[Leningrad Union]

Is there ever a reason for curiosity?

There is always something to rouse one's curiosity. (Cause & Effect)
If my mere presence here was enough, you'd have asked earlier.

Well I was wondering but I just asked now

[Conscentia]

And the religion has it's basis in cultural myths.

I do not believe in what I am incapable of believing.

That paragraph was meant to be together.

I don't see how it makes a difference.

See above.

It's a Jewish philosophical movement, not a religious denomination.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_religious_movements#Modern_movements_or_denominations

"or"

[Menassa]

That paragraph was meant to be together.

I don't see how it makes a difference.

It shatters my point, which was a question on the practices of Huaministic Judaism, and instead turns it into questions aimed at you.

[Conscentia]

I don't see how it makes a difference.

It shatters my point, which was a question on the practices of Huaministic Judaism, and instead turns it into questions aimed at you.

This should address the point:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Humanistic_Judaism

[Menassa]

It shatters my point, which was a question on the practices of Huaministic Judaism, and instead turns it into questions aimed at you.

This should address the point:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Humanistic_Judaism

Judaism is the historic culture of the Jewish people, and religion is only one part of that culture;

The Culture emerged from the religion.

Jewish identity is best preserved in a free, pluralistic environment;

That's generally the opposite of how Jewish identity is preserved, because then what makes me a Jew and you not a Jew? I feel connected to Judaism? What if I don't feel connected tomorrow, am I not a Jew?

And what if my children don't identify with Judaism? Are they Jewish?

People possess the power and responsibility to shape their own lives independent of supernatural authority;

That's something inherently not Jewish, as inherently not Jewish is the Trinity is.

Ethics and morality should serve human needs, and choices should be based upon consideration of the consequences of actions rather than pre-ordained rules or commandments;

Again, something not Jewish.
The Jewish belief is that the commandments ordained by God define ethics and morality and serve human needs in the best way possible.

The freedom and dignity of the Jewish people must go hand in hand with the freedom and dignity of every human being.

Most every other denomination believes that.

---

From this, it appears Humanistic Judaism is as Jewish as Messianic Judaism is.

[Conscentia]

Judaism is the historic culture of the Jewish people, and religion is only one part of that culture;

The Culture emerged from the religion.

I can't be bothered debating history with you, so I'll keep my answer short: Nope.

Jewish identity is best preserved in a free, pluralistic environment;

That's generally the opposite of how Jewish identity is preserved, because then what makes me a Jew and you not a Jew? I feel connected to Judaism? What if I don't feel connected tomorrow, am I not a Jew?
And what if my children don't identify with Judaism? Are they Jewish?

If I'm Finnish, & raised by a ethnic German couple as a South African in China, and then I move to Italy & assimilate, what am I? Answer: Italian. Why? Because I've assimilated & thus adopt an Italy identity.

One's ancestors may have been something, however that does not mean you are that same thing.

People possess the power and responsibility to shape their own lives independent of supernatural authority;

That's something inherently not Jewish, as inherently not Jewish is the Trinity is.

Secular Jews disagree.

Ethics and morality should serve human needs, and choices should be based upon consideration of the consequences of actions rather than pre-ordained rules or commandments;

Again, something not Jewish.
The Jewish belief is that the commandments ordained by God define ethics and morality and serve human needs in the best way possible.

Secular Jews disagree.
Do not project thy faith on thy ethnicity.