Jewish Discussion Thread

[Ethel mermania]

I have a question. I'm not Jewish so I wouldn't now? Despite the fact that it is traditionally a Christan holiday, do some Jews celebrate Christmas but focusing on the whole Santa thing?

not as jews, no.

are there jews who put up christmas trees? unfortunately yes, but they will tell you its a secular thing.

[Ethel mermania]

Well its actually an ethno-religion. If your mother is Jewish, so are you. If you choose not to follow Judaism as a religion, you're still Jewish.

But the ethnic appelation isn't israelite? Because, a seraphad jew isn't a part of a jew ethny, but a part of a berber ethny, for example...
Plus, you are muslim if your father is muslim, but you aren't a part of a "muslim" ethny.

its not the way jews look at it. its more like a tribe you can join and then be considered a full member of the tribe. both the serphardi and the askanesi consider themselves part of the jewish tribe.

[Daxe]

Can I join this thread. I am not jew (actually, I'm muslim), but I'm interested in the israëlo-palestinian conflict.

this thread is NOT about the isrealie - pallestinian conflict. it is about judisam. if you have questions about judisiam thats fine. if you want to bitch about isreal, please take it over there.

Don't be so touchy... I am neutral towards Israël and Palestine, I am just interested in this conflict...

[Daxe]

But the ethnic appelation isn't israelite? Because, a seraphad jew isn't a part of a jew ethny, but a part of a berber ethny, for example...
Plus, you are muslim if your father is muslim, but you aren't a part of a "muslim" ethny.

its not the way jews look at it. its more like a tribe you can join and then be considered a full member of the tribe. both the serphardi and the askanesi consider themselves part of the jewish tribe.

Oh, I see. Thanks for your explanation.

[Ethel mermania]

this thread is NOT about the isrealie - pallestinian conflict. it is about judisam. if you have questions about judisiam thats fine. if you want to bitch about isreal, please take it over there.

Don't be so touchy... I am neutral towards Israël and Palestine, I am just interested in this conflict...

we have a history of it coming into this space, and needing moderation to come in and clean it out, so i shall be as touchy as i want to be.

again though, any religious type questions please ask, happy to answer what we can.

[Ethel mermania]

its not the way jews look at it. its more like a tribe you can join and then be considered a full member of the tribe. both the serphardi and the askanesi consider themselves part of the jewish tribe.

Oh, I see. Thanks for your explanation.

its kind of weird if you compare it, christians and muslims use the father, jews for the most part, the mother. so a christian father and jewish mother both religions claim the kid, jewish father, muslim mother, neither does.

[Daxe]

Oh, I see. Thanks for your explanation.

its kind of weird if you compare it, christians and muslims use the father, jews for the most part, the mother. so a christian father and jewish mother both religions claim the kid, jewish father, muslim mother, neither does.

It's just an example to say that you can't be a part of a ethny by a religion. Ethny is defined by genetical heredity, and not by religion. Ok for tribe, but not for ethny, because it is wrong...

[Kingdom of Israel]

Well its actually an ethno-religion. If your mother is Jewish, so are you. If you choose not to follow Judaism as a religion, you're still Jewish.

But the ethnic appelation isn't israelite? Because, a seraphad jew isn't a part of a jew ethny, but a part of a berber ethny, for example...
Plus, you are muslim if your father is muslim, but you aren't a part of a "muslim" ethny.

No no.
It's not the same thing. Well, you see, ancient nations of the Middle East (Pre-Islam), each had their own religion. (Moab had Chemosh, Pheonicia had Ba'al, Ammon had Moloch, Assyria had Assur... Israel and Judah has YHWH)
We and our cult is so ancient, so we are an ethnoreligous group, like all ancient nations.

Jews are an ethnic-genetic group.

[Kingdom of Israel]

this thread is NOT about the isrealie - pallestinian conflict. it is about judisam. if you have questions about judisiam thats fine. if you want to bitch about isreal, please take it over there.

Don't be so touchy... I am neutral towards Israël and Palestine, I am just interested in this conflict...

He's not touchy, it's just a threadjack to discuss the conflict on this thread.

[Kingdom of Israel]

its kind of weird if you compare it, christians and muslims use the father, jews for the most part, the mother. so a christian father and jewish mother both religions claim the kid, jewish father, muslim mother, neither does.

It's just an example to say that you can't be a part of a ethny by a religion. Ethny is defined by genetical heredity, and not by religion. Ok for tribe, but not for ethny, because it is wrong...

All relevant Y-DNA studies have concluded that the majority of the paternal genetic heritage among Ashkenazim and other Jewish communities is similar to those found dominating Middle Eastern populations, and probably originated there. A smaller but still significant part of the Ashkenazi male-line population is more likely to have originated from European populations.

In a 2009 study by Kopelman et al., four Jewish groups, Ashkenazi, Turkish, Moroccan and Tunisian, were found to share a common origin from the Middle East, with more recent admixture that has resulted in "intermediate placement of the Jewish populations compared to European and Middle Eastern populations".

-Wikipedia

[Daxe]

But the ethnic appelation isn't israelite? Because, a seraphad jew isn't a part of a jew ethny, but a part of a berber ethny, for example...
Plus, you are muslim if your father is muslim, but you aren't a part of a "muslim" ethny.

No no.
It's not the same thing. Well, you see, ancient nations of the Middle East (Pre-Islam), each had their own religion.
We and our cult is so ancient, so we are an ethnoreligous group, like all ancient nations.

Jews are an ethnic-genetic group.

Yes, but technicaly, this approach of jews is wrong (for me, I don't know your opinion). Because, jews are the believers of Judaïsm, and Judaïsm is a religion. But, jews can be arabs or israelits...

[Kingdom of Israel]

No no.
It's not the same thing. Well, you see, ancient nations of the Middle East (Pre-Islam), each had their own religion.
We and our cult is so ancient, so we are an ethnoreligous group, like all ancient nations.

Jews are an ethnic-genetic group.

Yes, but technicaly, this approach of jews is wrong. Because, jews are the believers of Judaïsm, and Judaïsm is a religion. But, jews can be arabs, israelits, or vikings...

Not really.
Technically a convert is a Ger. And according to Orthodox Judaism it will be allowed to marry him.

Luckily Judaism is against conversions to Judaism.


Plus, no. A Jew is an ethnic definition. We aren't called AM Yisrael or HaAM Hayehudi for nothing, AM means "Nation". And as you can see, we are an obvious ethnic-genetic group.

People make that mistake that Jews are just a religion many times- because in modern times usually nations don't have their own tribal religion, but we do.
If Frenchmen had the religion Frenchaism, people would think they are just a religion as well...

[Kingdom of Israel]

No no.
It's not the same thing. Well, you see, ancient nations of the Middle East (Pre-Islam), each had their own religion.
We and our cult is so ancient, so we are an ethnoreligous group, like all ancient nations.

Jews are an ethnic-genetic group.

Yes, but technicaly, this approach of jews is wrong (for me, I don't know your opinion). Because, jews are the believers of Judaïsm, and Judaïsm is a religion. But, jews can be arabs or israelits...

By the way, Jews can't be Arabs. Just like an Arab can't be Chinese.

[Daxe]

Yes, but technicaly, this approach of jews is wrong (for me, I don't know your opinion). Because, jews are the believers of Judaïsm, and Judaïsm is a religion. But, jews can be arabs or israelits...

By the way, Jews can't be Arabs. Just like an Arab can't be Chinese.

An arab can be chinese... "Chinese" is a nationality...

[Kingdom of Israel]

By the way, Jews can't be Arabs. Just like an Arab can't be Chinese.

An arab can be chinese... "Chinese" is a nationality...

And nationality is based on ethnicity.
Nationality =/= Citizenship

[Daxe]

An arab can be chinese... "Chinese" is a nationality...

And nationality is based on ethnicity.
Nationality =/= Citizenship

No, it's wrong.

I'm a french man, but my ethny IS NOT french. I've got berber and saudian arabia ethnic origines.

I misunderstood your opinion, sorry.

[Ethel mermania]

No no.
It's not the same thing. Well, you see, ancient nations of the Middle East (Pre-Islam), each had their own religion.
We and our cult is so ancient, so we are an ethnoreligous group, like all ancient nations.

Jews are an ethnic-genetic group.

Yes, but technicaly, this approach of jews is wrong (for me, I don't know your opinion). Because, jews are the believers of Judaïsm, and Judaïsm is a religion. But, jews can be arabs or israelits...

but once you sign up, so to speak, you are in. you are expected to marry into the group and become a full fledged member of the group. the arab or persian jew is considered a jew as much as the isrealie one. there is no probition against marriage to any of the other jews.

(except to my grandmother, but that is a different story for a different day).

[Conscentia]

An arab can be chinese... "Chinese" is a nationality...

And nationality is based on ethnicity.
Nationality =/= Citizenship

No, it is not based on ethnicity.
Nationality is the legal relationship between a person and a nation state. It differs technically and legally from citizenship, although in most modern countries all nationals are citizens of the state and all citizens are nationals of the state.

[Ethel mermania]

sweet baby jesus, the chinese place was packed, not a table for 3 hours, so it was the the greek diner for this wandering jew.

[Leningrad Union]

sweet baby jesus, the chinese place was packed, not a table for 3 hours, so it was the the greek diner for this wandering jew.

I just ate it last night. I made myself dinner tonight.

[Menassa]

Can I join this thread. I am not jew (actually, I'm muslim), but I'm interested in the israëlo-palestinian conflict.

You are certainly welcome to ask questions, probing and understanding through dialogue and questions are an essential part of the Jewish religion.

[Menassa]

I have a question. I'm not Jewish so I wouldn't now? Despite the fact that it is traditionally a Christan holiday, do some Jews celebrate Christmas but focusing on the whole Santa thing?

No, I don't believe so... I mean when I was a child in an Orthodox community the concept of 'Santa' is something we laughed at... like the tooth fairy.

[Leningrad Union]

I have a question. I'm not Jewish so I wouldn't now? Despite the fact that it is traditionally a Christan holiday, do some Jews celebrate Christmas but focusing on the whole Santa thing?

No, I don't believe so... I mean when I was a child in an Orthodox community the concept of 'Santa' is something we laughed at... like the tooth fairy.

Same for me in the secular household...

[Menassa]

There is actually an Israeli-Palestinian Conflict thread already, but you're welcome to discuss Judaism here.

Ah, I didn't know that. :S

Actually, I want to ask a question, I never understand why some people say "Jewish Atheist" rather than "Atheist". Judaism is a religion, isn't it?

A person who is born of a Jewish mother cannot ever leave Judaism to the extent that they need to 're-convert' to enter it.

People can state that they don't believe in a God but keep Jewish 'customs'

To me that seems like trying to grab all the easy and fun parts of the religion with out all the vital hard work... and seems rather baseless... coming from someone who has tried it.

[Menassa]

No no.
It's not the same thing. Well, you see, ancient nations of the Middle East (Pre-Islam), each had their own religion.
We and our cult is so ancient, so we are an ethnoreligous group, like all ancient nations.

Jews are an ethnic-genetic group.

Yes, but technicaly, this approach of jews is wrong (for me, I don't know your opinion). Because, jews are the believers of Judaïsm, and Judaïsm is a religion. But, jews can be arabs or israelits...

As I stated it's sort of an ethnicity, a child of a Jewish mother does not need to convert to join the religion... merely start practicing.. a child born of a Jewish mother is Jewish... by blood.