Jewish Discussion Thread

[Menassa]

I have a couple of closely related questions for our Hebrew cousins; I stress that I'm absolutely not asking out of sarcasm, or to be facetious - I'm genuinely interested in the theological/traditional responses to these questions, which I would assume, perhaps mistakenly, have produced a rich literature relating to the specific points.

If the Jews are G-d's chosen people, why do they get treated so badly so consistently over history? From enslavement in Egypt, to the Babylonian Captivity, to the Roman destruction of the Temple, to the slaughter of Jews (alongside Muslims) in Jerusalem in 1099, to various European pogroms, to that unfortunate period in 1940s central Europe, Jews have been subject to millenia of oppression and even slaughter. What's your understanding of how this history fits into the narrative of being God's chosen people? Clearly millions of Jews reject Elie Wiesel's contention that "G-d died in Auschwitz" - what's the theological justification for doing so?

If the current territory of the State of Israel (however defined) is the Promised Land, why has G-d repeatedly allowed it to be taken away from Jews over the last 2 1/2 millennia (repeat examples from previous question)?

I hope I've phrased these questions reasonably respectfully; apologies if I haven't. I stress again that I'm not asking these questions in an attempt to challenge faith or to be rude, merely because I'm genuinely curious as to what the answer is.

Well I suppose with great power comes great responsibility.

There's no one clear definite answer to the original question...... but it can be broken down to two simpler questions.

Why does god allow good things to happen to bad people and vice versa? That conversation could go on forever.

What is the root for antisemitism? That's another question entirely.

[Mirkana]

What is the root for antisemitism? That's another question entirely.

I'll take this one.

Jews have historically been a religious minority wherever they settled. Furthermore, Judaism has many traits that, in my opinion, make it akin to a nation. Jews have their own cultural traditions, their own languages (Hebrew, Aramaic, Yiddish, and Ladino), and a very low conversion rate, so nearly all Jews are born into Judaism. As a consequence, when Jews come to non-Jewish countries, they tended to congregate into their own communities, even in places where they enjoy equal rights to non-Jews.

Because of this, Jews are perpetual outsiders, always distinct from the general population. This makes them a natural target for xenophobia, as well as a convenient scapegoat for any regime needing to blame society's problems on someone else. This created a long tradition of anti-Semitism and persecution, but only in places where there were longstanding Jewish communities, mostly Europe and the Middle East.

This explains most anti-Semitism - it's a classic case of "blame the outsider". There are two other major elements at play. One is anti-Israel sentiment, the reasons for which I shouldn't need to explain. Israel is a Jewish state, that cannot be disputed. Furthermore, Jews tend to be supporters of Israel. As a result, a lot of anti-Israel sentiment spills over into anti-Jewish sentiment.

The other major element is the perception of Jewish financial dominance. The financial part comes from the fact that historically, Jews were long barred from most professions - European guilds generally did not admit Jews. They tended to gravitate towards those professions they could assume - merchants. In addition, both Christianity and Islam, as practiced in the Middle Ages, had restrictions against Christians or Muslims lending money at interest. Jews were not bound by those restrictions, and therefore found a niche as bankers and moneylenders. On the whole, this probably helped the Jews, as it gave rulers a practical reason to not persecute the Jews under their rule. A man is less likely to give you a loan if your soldiers just burned down his place of worship. But it created the perception of Jews as wealthy, which eventually led to conspiracy theories about Jews controlling the economy.

On the subject of being the Chosen People, I like the argument that points out how despite all the persecution we have endured, the Jews are still around.

[The United Soviet Socialist Republic]

Hello Hebrews and Shebrews! Time for my usual Jewish question, what is the meaning of the candles lit for Haunakka(think I spelled it wrong)?

[Liriena]

I'm not Jewish, but I had a question:

I've been interested in Judaism for a while, and have tentatively considered conversion. Thus, my question is...¿Hypothetically, what would be required for me, a male, to be considered Jewish?

Also, taking into account that I am liberal and bisexual, ¿what Jewish denominations would you hypothetically recommend?

[Ethel mermania]

I'm not Jewish, but I had a question:

I've been interested in Judaism for a while, and have tentatively considered conversion. Thus, my question is...¿Hypothetically, what would be required for me, a male, to be considered Jewish?

Also, taking into account that I am liberal and bisexual, ¿what Jewish denominations would you hypothetically recommend?

Reform or reconstructionist would happily take you, and even marry you. Orthodox not so much.

Circumcision would still be required.

[Ralkovia]

I'm not Jewish, but I had a question:

I've been interested in Judaism for a while, and have tentatively considered conversion. Thus, my question is...¿Hypothetically, what would be required for me, a male, to be considered Jewish?

Also, taking into account that I am liberal and bisexual, ¿what Jewish denominations would you hypothetically recommend?

Reform or reconstructionist would happily take you, and even marry you. Orthodox not so much.

Circumcision would still be required.

As well as learning several parts of the holy books. Judaism is probably one of the hardest religions to convert to. My cousins wife, a former catholic, took nearly a year and a half to convert. This was only made easier because my uncle sits on the board and is personal friends with the rabbi.

[Evraim]

I'm not great because either of those things. I'm great because I'm Ralkovia.
It must suck not being me.

Ralkovia pretty much summarized the exceedingly long answer that I was going to give to the question of why Jewish people have suffered persecution throughout history.

Also, I finally involved myself in this thread!

Hello Hebrews and Shebrews! Time for my usual Jewish question, what is the meaning of the candles lit for Haunakka(think I spelled it wrong)?

May I ask if you are familiar with Chanukkah generally? This will help in answering the question to an extent.

[Volnotova]

*sigh* I suppose.... though I do despise them, you should put Messianic Jew in your poll but only if you want too.

I was an orthodox Jew but now I am an Atheist-nonobservant-Apikores.

I don't consider Messianic Jews to be Jews, unless of course, *sigh* their mothers were . . .

Gross. Fine.

Do you considere Karaites like me Jews?

[United States of Natan]

i just had a test in school on friday (in regular school), and because we were learning about ancient Israel and other ancient counties of that time, some questions about the Jews and ancient Israel were on that test, so the questions about those were on the test, so I basically aced the test since those questions were so easy. some of them we even celebrate a holiday about it.

[Menassa]

I don't consider Messianic Jews to be Jews, unless of course, *sigh* their mothers were . . .

Gross. Fine.

Do you considere Karaites like me Jews?

As long as your mother's Jewish your in the game or you convert, through an orthodox conversion.

Reform or reconstructionist would happily take you, and even marry you. Orthodox not so much.

Circumcision would still be required.

As well as learning several parts of the holy books. Judaism is probably one of the hardest religions to convert to. My cousins wife, a former catholic, took nearly a year and a half to convert. This was only made easier because my uncle sits on the board and is personal friends with the rabbi.

How corrupt

If I'm not mistaken it would take three years to convert into the Orthodox sect.

Along with dipping in your local Mikvah.

[Ralkovia]

Do you considere Karaites like me Jews?

As long as your mother's Jewish your in the game or you convert, through an orthodox conversion.

As well as learning several parts of the holy books. Judaism is probably one of the hardest religions to convert to. My cousins wife, a former catholic, took nearly a year and a half to convert. This was only made easier because my uncle sits on the board and is personal friends with the rabbi.

How corrupt

If I'm not mistaken it would take three years to convert into the Orthodox sect.

Along with dipping in your local Mikvah.

Conservative Judaism is a bit easier, but still drawn out. I like it, it keeps the rabble out.

[Menassa]

As long as your mother's Jewish your in the game or you convert, through an orthodox conversion.



How corrupt

If I'm not mistaken it would take three years to convert into the Orthodox sect.

Along with dipping in your local Mikvah.

Conservative Judaism is a bit easier, but still drawn out. I like it, it keeps the rabble out.

Orthodox is better at that.

Any sign of rabble and you and your whole family is shunned!

Shun the non-believers!

shun!

[Arborlawn]

Conservative Judaism is a bit easier, but still drawn out. I like it, it keeps the rabble out.

Orthodox is better at that.

Any sign of rabble and you and your whole family is shunned!

Shun the non-believers!

shun!

You may have to convert even if you are Jewish.

[Menassa]

Orthodox is better at that.

Any sign of rabble and you and your whole family is shunned!

Shun the non-believers!

shun!

You may have to convert even if you are Jewish.

If you went through a sham reform conversion or a lax conservative one you may have to convert..... or one rabbi doesn't hold like the other rabbi

[Arborlawn]

You may have to convert even if you are Jewish.

If you went through a sham reform conversion or a lax conservative one you may have to convert..... or one rabbi doesn't hold like the other rabbi

That, or you just can't prove you're actually Jewish. This is a big problem in Israel.

[Menassa]

If you went through a sham reform conversion or a lax conservative one you may have to convert..... or one rabbi doesn't hold like the other rabbi

That, or you just can't prove you're actually Jewish. This is a big problem in Israel.

You know that's what I've heard, but it's better safe than sorry especially if you're a female.

[The God-Realm]

I'm going to Jordan after the Family Values tour is over.

Anybody you want me to say hi to if I end up in Israel?

[Menassa]

I'm going to Jordan after the Family Values tour is over.

Anybody you want me to say hi to if I end up in Israel?

Family Values?

[The God-Realm]

I'm going to Jordan after the Family Values tour is over.

Anybody you want me to say hi to if I end up in Israel?

Family Values?

A metal festival in Bakersfield (I hope it's in Bakersfield next year)

[Disserbia]

nvm

[Ethel mermania]

Do you considere Karaites like me Jews?

As long as your mother's Jewish your in the game or you convert, through an orthodox conversion.

As well as learning several parts of the holy books. Judaism is probably one of the hardest religions to convert to. My cousins wife, a former catholic, took nearly a year and a half to convert. This was only made easier because my uncle sits on the board and is personal friends with the rabbi.

How corrupt

If I'm not mistaken it would take three years to convert into the Orthodox sect.

Along with dipping in your local Mikvah.

It got cut off, but the person who asked the question is bisexual, I doubt the orthodox would take him.

[Ethel mermania]

I don't consider Messianic Jews to be Jews, unless of course, *sigh* their mothers were . . .

Gross. Fine.

Do you considere Karaites like me Jews?

Me sure.

These days I like it more than traditional rabbinic judisiam.

[Seres]

Can you guys like appeal to the moderators to unban the swastika on nationstates?

[Grand Soviet Union]

Can you guys like appeal to the moderators to unban the swastika on nationstates?

umm...I doubt most if any of us here would do or even consider doing something like that. Now like it's said in the guidelines and such give them an article or some piece of evidence that says something along the lines of people not thinking of mass murder and hate and such (non-biased) at seeing the flag and perhaps they'll consider changing it.

[Ethel mermania]

Can you guys like appeal to the moderators to unban the swastika on nationstates?

I would rather not.