Jewish Discussion Thread

[Noders]

Menassa, yeah that's just bad, Noders, is West Coast the Normal region? That's a little scary.

i said Midwest as in Wisconsin, Illinois, Indiana

[Maryginia]

Menassa, yeah that's just bad, Noders, is West Coast the Normal region? That's a little scary.

i said Midwest as in Wisconsin, Illinois, Indiana

To be honest I know nothing about the people in those states.

[Noders]

i said Midwest as in Wisconsin, Illinois, Indiana

To be honest I know nothing about the people in those states.

where pretty nice i guess or so i've been told

[Maryginia]

To be honest I know nothing about the people in those states.

where pretty nice i guess or so i've been told

I'd have to take your word for it as agian I know nothing about the people in those States.

[Evraim]

I'm probably going to regret giving this a legitimate response, but I do believe addressing a number of absurd assertions and insinuations littered throughout your post may contribute to a discourse with the more intellectually honest anti-Semites who might be lurking around this website. Perhaps, if I can demonstrate that most of the claims against our people are baseless and baleful, they might be able to see that we’re people just like them. People who love, or hate, or suffer the same as anybody else.

What are your guys opinions on israel beating up on Palestine?
ex:killing palestinian children, stealing palestinian land (birth of israel), misconstruing media to make it seem like Palestine is evil

I most assuredly oppose the violations of international law perpetrated by Israel. However, I believe the United Nations possesses a rather blatant predisposition to condemn the Jewish state while ignoring more disconcerting transgressions committed by other governments. For example, General Assembly Resolution 3379 stated that Jewish self-determination was tantamount to racial discrimination. This overtly contradicts earlier policies pursued by the United Nations which identified the right to national self-determination as a crucial right enjoyed by all ethnic groups.

On the issue of civilian casualties, the legitimate government of Israel has never implemented a policy directly targeting non-combatants for elimination. Also, a routine search on the subject of child deaths caused by the Israeli-Palestinian conflict will reveal that in many instances deaths attributed to Israeli brutality were in actuality brought about by the negligent and contemptible actions of the so-called freedom fighters who launch rockets and carry out operations within heavily populated urban areas. In certain cases, Hamas operatives were shown to be directly (and accidentally) responsible for such deaths. That said, I believe it goes without saying that the lives of children have immense value. And the Israeli government ought to initiate policies that reduce the rate of civilian casualties even more. And, once the U.N. demonstrates that it can fairly mediate the disagreements between the two nations, I am willing to see prosecutions on both sides.

Most of the world community recognizes the right of the nation of Israel to exist. The established laws, in fact, support the continued existence of a Jewish state in the Middle East. As such, stating that the Jews stole Palestinian land would be a rather astounding departure from the truth of the matter. A thief does not utilize legal contracts to legitimize her (or his) claims.

Also raise of hands, who thinks that the zions did 9/11

Well, considering a self professed opponent of Zionist aggression claimed responsibility for the attacks, I do believe it prudent that my hands remain clenched into fists in my lap. I would be very much interested in a presentation of credible evidence that validated this tenuous theory though. I also feel compelled to inform you that Zionism is simply Jewish Nationalism. To say that Zionists as a group were responsible for any atrocities is like say that Asians as group were responsible for Pearl Harbor. There are different types of Zionists with distinct strategies and objectives.

and who else knows that the holocaust was a lie? Like seriously,

The Holocaust happened.

1-The post WW2 books written by the wartime leaders Churchill, Eisenhower, and DeGaule never mentioned any gas being used or any planned, systematic extermination of anyone.

On the contrary, most of the post-war textbooks mention the extensive use of gas chambers by Nazi officials as part of a systematic plan to exterminate undesirables residing in Germany and Eastern Europe. All credible historians believe these events transpired and there is substantial evidence supporting their theories and opposing the claims of Holocaust deniers.

2-In Eli Weisel's book titled 'Night' he doesn't mention gas being used and when the choice came that he would retreat with the Germans or stay and be under the Soviet umbrella he chose to retreat with the Germans.

The Soviets were rather anti-Semitic too. Under Stalin, many Jewish partisans and professionals were purged or investigated for having counter-revolutionary sympathies. Additionally, Weisel may not have seen gas chambers. However, there were many other survivors who attested to their existence. Likewise, during the Nuremburg Trials, where Nazi war criminals testified and were convicted of crimes against humanity, few of the prominent officials denied that the Holocaust had occurred. Many stated that they had "just been following orders." This seems to suggest that they acknowledged the existence of crimes against humanity.

3-if there would have been millions of people murdered then there would have been tons of human remains buried somewhere and it would be way too much to hide for very long. No tons of human remains were ever found. And if they would have been cremated then there would have been tons of ashes and no ashes were ever found.

There have been a number of mass graves uncovered. There's also the fact that the soldiers who liberated the concentration camps consistently mention crematories, bodies, and the terrible condition of the survivors. I also believe that underestimate the abilities of an industrial nation to dispose of human remains and overestimate the abilities of archaeologists to uncover said remains.

4-Auswitcz was a place where synthentic rubber was being produced and U.S. intelligence was focused on Auswitcz for that reason. No U.S. intelligence reports ever gave any indication of gassing or mass extermination.

And the testimonies of Nazi war criminals and survivors? Or did you choose to ignore all of that evidence?

5-Jews took a census of their people before WW2 and after and in order for there to have been 6 million people killed each and every jewish female on this planet would have to given birth to something like 13 children and that never happened.

That's simply not true. You've no evidence to confirm it either.

1. Motivations: Many people don't understand why anyone would have lied about exterminations of Jews. When a motive is presented for the lie, more people will be willing to consider they've been lied to. The Holocaust story is a massive bonanza for Jews worldwide. Financially, the payoff has been in the billions, and continues unabated. Psychologically, the story has the effect of giving a blank check for Zionist behavior around the world.

Not really. The United Nations has actually exhibited a rather prominent anti-Zionist bias. And the financial successes of the Jewish people may be more easily attributed to historical and economic factors than to a fabricated genocides. Which, coincidentally, was most definitively not fabricated.

2. The concept of the Big Lie: Everyone should read the excerpt from Chapter X of Mein Kampf where the author explains how a massive lie will be believed simply because ordinary people cannot comprehend that such a huge, oft-repeated story can be anything but true.

Quote:

"In this they proceeded on the sound principle that the magnitude of a lie always contains a certain factor of credibility, since the great masses of the people in the very bottom of their hearts tend to be corrupted rather than consciously and purposely evil, and that, therefore, in view of the primitive simplicity of their minds they more easily fall a victim to a big lie than to a little one, since they themselves lie in little things, but would be ashamed of lies that were too big. Such a falsehood will never enter their heads and they will not be able to believe in the possibility of such monstrous effrontery and infamous misrepresentation in others; yes, even when enlightened on the subject, they will long doubt and waver, and continue to accept at least one of these causes as true. Therefore, something of even the most insolent lie will always remain and stick - a fact which all the great lie-virtuosi and lying-clubs in this world know only too well and also make the most treacherous use of."

-Mein Kampf Chpt. X


Hitler may not have been the greatest author, but he nailed this one pretty good. How ironic that the Holocaust story has become the greatest Big Lie of the present day.

You realize this man believed that the Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion was a credible document even after it was widely recognized that it had been formulated by Russian officials to rationalize pogroms, massacres, discrimination, and other anti-Semitic actions, right? Why, then, should we believe anything a known liar and anti-Semite wrote?

3. Torture used at Nuremberg Trials: The greatest argument in favor of the Holocaust is that "the Germans admitted it." The best response is to point out that the Nazis who "admitted" the Holocaust at the war crimes trials were tortured by their (mostly Jewish) interrogators, usually by having their testicles crushed. Everyone understands what torture is, but few can believe it would have been used by the Allies on war criminals. This is documented in Butz's book.

It simply never transpired. Even the Nazi officials who lived for decades after the Nuremburg Trials never denied the truth of the Holocaust. Now, tell me, why should we believe the words of an electrical engineer over those of actual historians, survivors of Nazi atrocities, and the criminals themselves?

4. The Katyn Forest Massacre: That numerous German officers were hung for the murder of thousands of Polish nationalists by Stalin's NKVD demonstrates the fraudulence going on during the war years. President Roosevelt deliberately covered up the evidence of who really committed the crime. That such corruption could have been going on in high levels of the US government during the war years proves that we should not believe any of the official evidence of the Holocaust.

Not really. The Soviets didn't claim responsibility for the massacres - obviously - and the United States was keen to eschew the beginnings of the Cold War and cultivate a good relationship with the Russians. The Holocaust scarcely related to the Cold War, and there is definitive evidence that it occurred. To deny it is completely ludicrous

[Evraim]

They and is have a very different view of Tikkun Olam.... modernly it has been painted as giving back to the community.... like planting trees and going to old-folks-homes.... while we do that a lot... that's not one of our main priorities and is actually a very large debate.

I think it can be considered a rather large part of tikkun olam along with studying the Torah and loving your neighbors. The point is to make the world better. If planting trees does that in any way, we should try to do it.

[Menassa]

They and is have a very different view of Tikkun Olam.... modernly it has been painted as giving back to the community.... like planting trees and going to old-folks-homes.... while we do that a lot... that's not one of our main priorities and is actually a very large debate.

I think it can be considered a rather large part of tikkun olam along with studying the Torah and loving your neighbors. The point is to make the world better. If planting trees does that in any way, we should try to do it.

I do agree we should do this... but not if it sacrifices the time for studying the Law.

[Evraim]

Why won't you let me have fun!

You are the worst Rabbi Ever!

Who ordained Ralkovia?

On second thought, I don't want to know...

Can't wait to move there. It's so hard to find Politically conservative Jewish girls in America.

If by politically conservative, you mean Fascist, I imagine the search will never conclude.

[Menassa]

Why won't you let me have fun!

You are the worst Rabbi Ever!

Who ordained Ralkovia?

On second thought, I don't want to know...

He was born a Rabbi.

[Dilange]

Why won't you let me have fun!

You are the worst Rabbi Ever!

Who ordained Ralkovia?

On second thought, I don't want to know...

They told me I was too drunk at the time..

[Mizrah]

The issue over homosexuality has bothered me quite a bit. (I am Arborlawn by the way. I wanted a more Jewish sounding nation.)

[Menassa]

The issue over homosexuality has bothered me quite a bit. (I am Arborlawn by the way. I wanted a more Jewish sounding nation.)

What do you mean?

[Mizrah]

The issue over homosexuality has bothered me quite a bit. (I am Arborlawn by the way. I wanted a more Jewish sounding nation.)

What do you mean?

Gay marriage. I am well aware that homosexuality itself is not wrong. Just the act.

[Menassa]

What do you mean?

Gay marriage. I am well aware that homosexuality itself is not wrong. Just the act.

For Jews the act is wrong it is a desire you have to combat... just like any other desire.

[Mizrah]

Gay marriage. I am well aware that homosexuality itself is not wrong. Just the act.

For Jews the act is wrong it is a desire you have to combat... just like any other desire.

I already knew this. It is whether or not gay marriage is something permissible.

[Evraim]

I do agree we should do this... but not if it sacrifices the time for studying the Law.

If you didn't have to eat or discuss Judaism on NS, I imagine you would spend all day studying the Law.

[Menassa]

For Jews the act is wrong it is a desire you have to combat... just like any other desire.

I already knew this. It is whether or not gay marriage is something permissible.

According to the Talmud two Jewish man can try and get married any way the want and it simply is not recognized.

Whether the secular government should abide by this is a different story.

[Menassa]

I do agree we should do this... but not if it sacrifices the time for studying the Law.

If you didn't have to eat or discuss Judaism on NS, I imagine you would spend all day studying the Law.

Discussing Judaism on NS is studying the Law.

[Mizrah]

I do agree we should do this... but not if it sacrifices the time for studying the Law.

If you didn't have to eat or discuss Judaism on NS, I imagine you would spend all day studying the Law.

Funny thing Evraim. Menassa and I actually live in two different cities right next to each other.

[Menassa]

If you didn't have to eat or discuss Judaism on NS, I imagine you would spend all day studying the Law.

Funny thing Evraim. Menassa and I actually live in two different cities right next to each other.

I don't think you know where I live.

[Dilange]

For Jews the act is wrong it is a desire you have to combat... just like any other desire.

I already knew this. It is whether or not gay marriage is something permissible.

Im a modern-thinking reformodox Jew. In current times, we have to continue on. We fought for our rights, we do feel the same pain for those who are homosexual or for those who are repressed. I would rather give the rights of those like us, those who have been repressed, rather than have them feel the pain.

[Evraim]

I already knew this. It is whether or not gay marriage is something permissible.

According to the Talmud two Jewish man can try and get married any way the want and it simply is not recognized.

Whether the secular government should abide by this is a different story.

Yet another subject on which to disagree with the Orthodox Jews.

*filthy heretic*

Funny thing Evraim. Menassa and I actually live in two different cities right next to each other.

I don't think you know where I live.

Lock your doors just to be safe.

[Menassa]

I already knew this. It is whether or not gay marriage is something permissible.

Im a modern-thinking reformodox Jew. In current times, we have to continue on. We fought for our rights, we do feel the same pain for those who are homosexual or for those who are repressed. I would rather give the rights of those like us, those who have been repressed, rather than have them feel the pain.

I believe Gentile homosexuals should be afforded the same rights as Heterosexual gentiles... I do not however believe the Law is subject to change.

[Ralkovia]

What do you mean?

Gay marriage. I am well aware that homosexuality itself is not wrong. Just the act.

Know what isn't wrong. Lesbians. Threesomes. G-d is AWESOME!

[Menassa]

According to the Talmud two Jewish man can try and get married any way the want and it simply is not recognized.

Whether the secular government should abide by this is a different story.

Yet another subject on which to disagree with the Orthodox Jews.

*filthy heretic*

The Talmud draws this out from the Torah.