Jewish Discussion Thread

[The Ik Ka Ek Akai]

Good thing the Bible doesn't say the Jews built the pyramids...

Wow you ninja....XD.

Mizrahi historian here:


There is actually evidence that the Hebrews made up a large majority of slaves within Ancient Egypt:

Ancient Egyptian art often depicts the Hebrews as being dirty and unclean, a state of peasantry or slavery. For the next hint at this, I will have a brief Egyptian art lesson:

In Ancient Egyptian art, red is seen as a masculine color, and white is seen as a feminine color. The god of foreigners, Set, had red as his primary color. Due to this, foreigners were also often painted red to represent foreign blood, while Egyptians could be any variety of colors. On to the point, the Hebrews were painted white. The men too. White, being the color of femininity, is used is this situation to denote the Hebrews as "Not Men", symbolically stating that they were not humans and thus the Egyptian rules of humanity did not apply to them. Because of this, the Egyptian religious code stating that "all men must be given their due" did not apply to them, and so they were not paid. Several other Egyptian religious laws, dictating the disuse of violent language towards others and the fair treatment of all peoples, as well did not apply. Thus, the Hebrews were given slave status.

There is actually something interesting about the Egyptian slavery though. According to several historical records, the Hebrews were paid with exotic fruits. While this technically does count as pay, since the Egyptians widely used a barter system along with currency, it was technically better pay than the average worker. This only furthers the distinction made between Hebrew workers and Egyptian workers.

To some aforementioned points, the Hebrews did not build the pyramids. The time at which the Hebrews were supposed to be in Egypt does not match up with the times that the pyramids were created. A fun fact, one of the most accepted theories to naming the infamous pharaoh of Exodus states that Ramesses II was the pharaoh. Which is funny, because that would mean that Ramesses was so grief-stricken from his firstborn's loss that he had 200+ other kids with 17 women.

[Leningrad Union]

Wow you ninja....XD.

Mizrahi historian here:


There is actually evidence that the Hebrews made up a large majority of slaves within Ancient Egypt:

Ancient Egyptian art often depicts the Hebrews as being dirty and unclean, a state of peasantry or slavery. For the next hint at this, I will have a brief Egyptian art lesson:

In Ancient Egyptian art, red is seen as a masculine color, and white is seen as a feminine color. The god of foreigners, Set, had red as his primary color. Due to this, foreigners were also often painted red to represent foreign blood, while Egyptians could be any variety of colors. On to the point, the Hebrews were painted white. The men too. White, being the color of femininity, is used is this situation to denote the Hebrews as "Not Men", symbolically stating that they were not humans and thus the Egyptian rules of humanity did not apply to them. Because of this, the Egyptian religious code stating that "all men must be given their due" did not apply to them, and so they were not paid. Several other Egyptian religious laws, dictating the disuse of violent language towards others and the fair treatment of all peoples, as well did not apply. Thus, the Hebrews were given slave status.

There is actually something interesting about the Egyptian slavery though. According to several historical records, the Hebrews were paid with exotic fruits. While this technically does count as pay, since the Egyptians widely used a barter system along with currency, it was technically better pay than the average worker. This only furthers the distinction made between Hebrew workers and Egyptian workers.

To some aforementioned points, the Hebrews did not build the pyramids. The time at which the Hebrews were supposed to be in Egypt does not match up with the times that the pyramids were created. A fun fact, one of the most accepted theories to naming the infamous pharaoh of Exodus states that Ramesses II was the pharaoh. Which is funny, because that would mean that Ramesses was so grief-stricken from his firstborn's loss that he had 200+ other kids with 17 women.

The Egyptians sound like Nazis. But can I see the paintings?

[Conscentia]

The Pharoahs never had slaves build cities either.
The pyramids part wasn't really part of the point... the point was that the Pharoah didn't use slaves for building projects.

Of course he did, every civilazation at that time did.

Private slavery existed in ancient Egypt. There was no mass enslavement by the Pharoah for the purposes of building cities.
Ramesses II, generally identified as the Pharaoh of Exodus, hired free Egyptian workers to build his cities.

[The Ik Ka Ek Akai]

Mizrahi historian here:


There is actually evidence that the Hebrews made up a large majority of slaves within Ancient Egypt:

Ancient Egyptian art often depicts the Hebrews as being dirty and unclean, a state of peasantry or slavery. For the next hint at this, I will have a brief Egyptian art lesson:

In Ancient Egyptian art, red is seen as a masculine color, and white is seen as a feminine color. The god of foreigners, Set, had red as his primary color. Due to this, foreigners were also often painted red to represent foreign blood, while Egyptians could be any variety of colors. On to the point, the Hebrews were painted white. The men too. White, being the color of femininity, is used is this situation to denote the Hebrews as "Not Men", symbolically stating that they were not humans and thus the Egyptian rules of humanity did not apply to them. Because of this, the Egyptian religious code stating that "all men must be given their due" did not apply to them, and so they were not paid. Several other Egyptian religious laws, dictating the disuse of violent language towards others and the fair treatment of all peoples, as well did not apply. Thus, the Hebrews were given slave status.

There is actually something interesting about the Egyptian slavery though. According to several historical records, the Hebrews were paid with exotic fruits. While this technically does count as pay, since the Egyptians widely used a barter system along with currency, it was technically better pay than the average worker. This only furthers the distinction made between Hebrew workers and Egyptian workers.

To some aforementioned points, the Hebrews did not build the pyramids. The time at which the Hebrews were supposed to be in Egypt does not match up with the times that the pyramids were created. A fun fact, one of the most accepted theories to naming the infamous pharaoh of Exodus states that Ramesses II was the pharaoh. Which is funny, because that would mean that Ramesses was so grief-stricken from his firstborn's loss that he had 200+ other kids with 17 women.

The Egyptians sound like Nazis. But can I see the paintings?

I don't have any online sources, the sources I have instead come from physical Egyptian art which my brother, ironically a practitioner of the Ancient Egyptian religion, translated from hieroglyphs. The Egyptians, though, were not as nazi as you say they sound. The Hebrews often worked alongside Egyptian workers. They had the social status of peasants, which does not get far anyways. Basically, the Hebrews of the time were very much like the typical peasant. Not all Hebrews were slaves either, there were many free Hebrews in Canaan (which at the time belonged to Egypt). The Egyptians, while it would not technically violate their religious code, did not punish the slaves harshly. The slaves were sub-human. As I mentioned before, the slaves not being a part of the religious code is actually a technicality. You could maybe get away with a beating, but it was frowned upon.

Don't mistake my words. The Egyptians did enslave a large number of Hebrews. That, however, did not change much in the long run. The slaves were like peasants with better pay and a fewer rights. That is basically the best way to sum it up.

[Kingdom of Israel]

Wow you ninja....XD.

Mizrahi historian here:


There is actually evidence that the Hebrews made up a large majority of slaves within Ancient Egypt:

Ancient Egyptian art often depicts the Hebrews as being dirty and unclean, a state of peasantry or slavery. For the next hint at this, I will have a brief Egyptian art lesson:

In Ancient Egyptian art, red is seen as a masculine color, and white is seen as a feminine color. The god of foreigners, Set, had red as his primary color. Due to this, foreigners were also often painted red to represent foreign blood, while Egyptians could be any variety of colors. On to the point, the Hebrews were painted white. The men too. White, being the color of femininity, is used is this situation to denote the Hebrews as "Not Men", symbolically stating that they were not humans and thus the Egyptian rules of humanity did not apply to them. Because of this, the Egyptian religious code stating that "all men must be given their due" did not apply to them, and so they were not paid. Several other Egyptian religious laws, dictating the disuse of violent language towards others and the fair treatment of all peoples, as well did not apply. Thus, the Hebrews were given slave status.

There is actually something interesting about the Egyptian slavery though. According to several historical records, the Hebrews were paid with exotic fruits. While this technically does count as pay, since the Egyptians widely used a barter system along with currency, it was technically better pay than the average worker. This only furthers the distinction made between Hebrew workers and Egyptian workers.

To some aforementioned points, the Hebrews did not build the pyramids. The time at which the Hebrews were supposed to be in Egypt does not match up with the times that the pyramids were created. A fun fact, one of the most accepted theories to naming the infamous pharaoh of Exodus states that Ramesses II was the pharaoh. Which is funny, because that would mean that Ramesses was so grief-stricken from his firstborn's loss that he had 200+ other kids with 17 women.

Nice and all.
But what's with the "Mizrahi Historian", I don't understand why several Jews decide to be Palgani'im.
Genetically speaking, nearly no difference between Ashkenazi-Sephardi-Mizrahi-Temani-Karai Jews, so why to identify as such?

[Conscentia]

Wow you ninja....XD.

Mizrahi historian here:


There is actually evidence that the Hebrews made up a large majority of slaves within Ancient Egypt:

Ancient Egyptian art often depicts the Hebrews as being dirty and unclean, a state of peasantry or slavery. For the next hint at this, I will have a brief Egyptian art lesson:

In Ancient Egyptian art, red is seen as a masculine color, and white is seen as a feminine color. The god of foreigners, Set, had red as his primary color. Due to this, foreigners were also often painted red to represent foreign blood, while Egyptians could be any variety of colors. On to the point, the Hebrews were painted white. The men too. White, being the color of femininity, is used is this situation to denote the Hebrews as "Not Men", symbolically stating that they were not humans and thus the Egyptian rules of humanity did not apply to them. Because of this, the Egyptian religious code stating that "all men must be given their due" did not apply to them, and so they were not paid. Several other Egyptian religious laws, dictating the disuse of violent language towards others and the fair treatment of all peoples, as well did not apply. Thus, the Hebrews were given slave status.

There is actually something interesting about the Egyptian slavery though. According to several historical records, the Hebrews were paid with exotic fruits. While this technically does count as pay, since the Egyptians widely used a barter system along with currency, it was technically better pay than the average worker. This only furthers the distinction made between Hebrew workers and Egyptian workers.

To some aforementioned points, the Hebrews did not build the pyramids. The time at which the Hebrews were supposed to be in Egypt does not match up with the times that the pyramids were created. A fun fact, one of the most accepted theories to naming the infamous pharaoh of Exodus states that Ramesses II was the pharaoh. Which is funny, because that would mean that Ramesses was so grief-stricken from his firstborn's loss that he had 200+ other kids with 17 women.

[citation needed]

[Kingdom of Israel]

The Egyptians sound like Nazis. But can I see the paintings?

I don't have any online sources, the sources I have instead come from physical Egyptian art which my brother, ironically a practitioner of the Ancient Egyptian religion, translated from hieroglyphs. The Egyptians, though, were not as nazi as you say they sound. The Hebrews often worked alongside Egyptian workers. They had the social status of peasants, which does not get far anyways. Basically, the Hebrews of the time were very much like the typical peasant. Not all Hebrews were slaves either, there were many free Hebrews in Canaan (which at the time belonged to Egypt). The Egyptians, while it would not technically violate their religious code, did not punish the slaves harshly. The slaves were sub-human. As I mentioned before, the slaves not being a part of the religious code is actually a technicality. You could maybe get away with a beating, but it was frowned upon.

Don't mistake my words. The Egyptians did enslave a large number of Hebrews. That, however, did not change much in the long run. The slaves were like peasants with better pay and a fewer rights. That is basically the best way to sum it up.

Wow what?

[Conscentia]

I don't have any online sources, the sources I have instead come from physical Egyptian art which my brother, ironically a practitioner of the Ancient Egyptian religion, translated from hieroglyphs. The Egyptians, though, were not as nazi as you say they sound. The Hebrews often worked alongside Egyptian workers. They had the social status of peasants, which does not get far anyways. Basically, the Hebrews of the time were very much like the typical peasant. Not all Hebrews were slaves either, there were many free Hebrews in Canaan (which at the time belonged to Egypt). The Egyptians, while it would not technically violate their religious code, did not punish the slaves harshly. The slaves were sub-human. As I mentioned before, the slaves not being a part of the religious code is actually a technicality. You could maybe get away with a beating, but it was frowned upon.

Don't mistake my words. The Egyptians did enslave a large number of Hebrews. That, however, did not change much in the long run. The slaves were like peasants with better pay and a fewer rights. That is basically the best way to sum it up.

Wow what?

Perhaps this?: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kemetism

[Kingdom of Israel]

Wow what?

Perhaps this?: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kemetism

I know.
It's just surprising considering he claims to be a Mizrahi [Jew].

[The Ik Ka Ek Akai]

Perhaps this?: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kemetism

I know.
It's just surprising considering he claims to be a Mizrahi [Jew].

Of Mizrahi descent, anyways. I'm not actually in the Middle East right now.

[The Ik Ka Ek Akai]

Mizrahi historian here:


There is actually evidence that the Hebrews made up a large majority of slaves within Ancient Egypt:

Ancient Egyptian art often depicts the Hebrews as being dirty and unclean, a state of peasantry or slavery. For the next hint at this, I will have a brief Egyptian art lesson:

In Ancient Egyptian art, red is seen as a masculine color, and white is seen as a feminine color. The god of foreigners, Set, had red as his primary color. Due to this, foreigners were also often painted red to represent foreign blood, while Egyptians could be any variety of colors. On to the point, the Hebrews were painted white. The men too. White, being the color of femininity, is used is this situation to denote the Hebrews as "Not Men", symbolically stating that they were not humans and thus the Egyptian rules of humanity did not apply to them. Because of this, the Egyptian religious code stating that "all men must be given their due" did not apply to them, and so they were not paid. Several other Egyptian religious laws, dictating the disuse of violent language towards others and the fair treatment of all peoples, as well did not apply. Thus, the Hebrews were given slave status.

There is actually something interesting about the Egyptian slavery though. According to several historical records, the Hebrews were paid with exotic fruits. While this technically does count as pay, since the Egyptians widely used a barter system along with currency, it was technically better pay than the average worker. This only furthers the distinction made between Hebrew workers and Egyptian workers.

To some aforementioned points, the Hebrews did not build the pyramids. The time at which the Hebrews were supposed to be in Egypt does not match up with the times that the pyramids were created. A fun fact, one of the most accepted theories to naming the infamous pharaoh of Exodus states that Ramesses II was the pharaoh. Which is funny, because that would mean that Ramesses was so grief-stricken from his firstborn's loss that he had 200+ other kids with 17 women.

[citation needed]

You've got to consider that the link you presented is still before the theorized enslavement period, as the buildings were "4,500 years ago", while the theorized time is closer to 1000 B.C.E.

Like I said, they were not the exclusive slaves, and they were not all slaves. The majority of Hebrew slaves came from the conquest of Egyptian Canaan. War prisoners and already-existing slaves would've been kept as slaves. Then there's the practice of selling people into slavery as well. All of these add up to the Egyptians having a Hebraic slave population. Other slaves within Egypt would be Nubians, Assyro-Babylonians, and, well, pretty much anyone fathomable that had a slavery system that had trade connections with Egypt. It just so happens that the story of the Hebrew slaves is the most famous. Moses, being a Hebrew, called for the release of Hebrew slaves.

The Pharaoh, no matter which, was taught that he was the descendant of a god. Ramesses II especially was known to be highly egotistical. Thus, the story matches up a bit in the stubbornness to release the slaves. Imagine the thought, that you, a living god, lost to a group of slaves and a series of natural disasters. That would not be fathomable, especially to a god like Ramesses. It is believed that the biblical story has exaggeration, though, which is likely.

To further:

http://sarabe3.tripod.com/images/image011.jpg

http://christogenea.org/Overview/images ... 193393.jpg

compare the skin tones of the women and the Hebrew men in Egyptian art.

So, it's not necessarily "White" as much as "Yellow". Colors aside, it's still there to see.

[Leningrad Union]

I know.
It's just surprising considering he claims to be a Mizrahi [Jew].

Of Mizrahi descent, anyways. I'm not actually in the Middle East right now.

Where?

[The Ik Ka Ek Akai]

Of Mizrahi descent, anyways. I'm not actually in the Middle East right now.

Where?

Where what?

[Menassa]

Good thing the Bible doesn't say the Jews built the pyramids...

The Pharoahs never had slaves build cities either.
The pyramids part wasn't really part of the point... the point was that the Pharoah didn't use slaves for building projects.

I understand why the Exodus story as outlined in the Bible and Futhered in the Talmud would be a hard pill to swallow.

Because if real it would witness to the fact that a God exists who controls every facet of nature, is all seeing, and is not apathetic to world events... a God who hears, sees, and acts.

That said:
http://www.aish.com/ci/sam/48938472.html
http://www.aish.com/ci/sam/48967121.html
http://www.simpletoremember.com/media/a/2-ke806bb-4/

[Benuty]

So I have been debating with a Jew who only believes the Torah is legit canon (thus every thing else in the Tanakh is fan fiction to them). They certainly had some interesting ideas...

[Leningrad Union]

Where?

Where what?

Where is your family from and where are you now?

[Kingdom of Israel]

So I have been debating with a Jew who only believes the Torah is legit canon (thus every thing else in the Tanakh is fan fiction to them). They certainly had some interesting ideas...

Ironically the Torah is fiction and the rest of the Tanakh is actually filled with mainly facts.

[Pope Joan]

I was taught that the Egyptian word "Hapiru" meant inferior foreign laborers. Like American exploited immigrants, or Turks in Greece, or Hindus in Qatar.

It roughly meant "dust" or the dirt beneath your feet.

Which gives a nice double meaning to God's promise that Abram's heirs would be like the dust od the earth, Genesis 28:14.

I wonder whether the heirs of Abraham might have led a slave revolt?

[The Ik Ka Ek Akai]

Where what?

Where is your family from and where are you now?

Not sure what generation, but Israel to Texas.

[Benuty]

So I have been debating with a Jew who only believes the Torah is legit canon (thus every thing else in the Tanakh is fan fiction to them). They certainly had some interesting ideas...

Ironically the Torah is fiction and the rest of the Tanakh is actually filled with mainly facts.

This guy is something else he believes nothing past the five books actually happened...at all.

[Kingdom of Israel]

I was taught that the Egyptian word "Hapiru" meant inferior foreign laborers. Like American exploited immigrants, or Turks in Greece, or Hindus in Qatar.

It roughly meant "dust" or the dirt beneath your feet.

Which gives a nice double meaning to God's promise that Abram's heirs would be like the dust od the earth, Genesis 28:14.

I wonder whether the heirs of Abraham might have led a slave revolt?

The Habiru/Hapiru/Abiru/Apiru theory used to be mainstream, not it isn't.
We are probably not descendants of the Apirus.

[Kingdom of Israel]

Ironically the Torah is fiction and the rest of the Tanakh is actually filled with mainly facts.

This guy is something else he believes nothing past the five books actually happened...at all.

Well he believes fallacy.

[Leningrad Union]

Where is your family from and where are you now?

Not sure what generation, but Israel to Texas.

Before Israel?

[Menassa]

So I have been debating with a Jew who only believes the Torah is legit canon (thus every thing else in the Tanakh is fan fiction to them). They certainly had some interesting ideas...

Like the Samaritans?

[Benuty]

So I have been debating with a Jew who only believes the Torah is legit canon (thus every thing else in the Tanakh is fan fiction to them). They certainly had some interesting ideas...

Like the Samaritans?

So I thought..till he told me they were heretics. The guy considers himself a moderate...Sadducee (bleh).