Women objectify women too

[Chinese Regions]

Some guy ogling a girl at a bar is not treating a person as a thing for their own amusement. Nor is it if he watches her in a porno.

Yes, he is. He's being a douche by only caring about her tits/ass and not about her as a person. He's sexualising her without her consent.

No he's not because there is no one to be a douche to.

[Agymnum]

This. If you expose your breasts and posterior, you obviously want people to look at it. Well, unless maybe you have no other clothes (in which case, I question why all your clothes are so skimpy).

Nice of a guy like you to tell us what all women think, because you're an expert on that, eh?

Please, enlighten me on why you would expose your breasts and posterior then?

Well, I guess it being too hot outside is an excuse, but besides that I can't think of any other reason except wanting people to look.

[Nadkor]

No.

What is there to object to?

The statement I quoted?

[Chinese Regions]

Yes, he is. He's being a douche by only caring about her tits/ass and not about her as a person. He's sexualising her without her consent.

FST IS BACK!

Any girl who consents to being in a porno is consenting to sexualization. How can you expect a man to react when he sees a naked woman having sex with some kind of sexual title to the video in a sexual position with absolutely no background information.

Is FST the new Kari (or old Kari considering he was banned first). But at least FST was smart. (though not in regards to morality and philosophy)

[Agymnum]

What is there to object to?

The statement I quoted?

Explain what reason you'd have other than temperature or because you want people to look.

[Northern Dominus]

Nice of a guy like you to tell us what all women think, because you're an expert on that, eh?

Please, enlighten me on why you would expose your breasts and posterior then?

Well, I guess it being too hot outside is an excuse, but besides that I can't think of any other reason except wanting people to look.

Which is what happens to women who wear minimalist clothing to go run outside. It's comfortable for them and they don't need some yahoo leering at them because they chose ventilation over perv-armor.
Here's the litmus test: do you feel the same derision about a man who runs shirtless, the whole wanting attention angle I mean?

What is there to object to?

The statement I quoted?

If It's any consolation Nadkor I enjoy oggling...your sexy sexy brain

[Agymnum]

Please, enlighten me on why you would expose your breasts and posterior then?

Well, I guess it being too hot outside is an excuse, but besides that I can't think of any other reason except wanting people to look.

Which is what happens to women who wear minimalist clothing to go run outside. It's comfortable for them and they don't need some yahoo leering at them because they chose ventilation over perv-armor.
Here's the litmus test: do you feel the same derision about a man who runs shirtless, the whole wanting attention angle I mean?

The statement I quoted?

If It's any consolation Nadkor I enjoy oggling...your sexy sexy brain

Yeah, probably because he's got a six-pack to show off.

Now, if he's fat like me (FATNESS FTW) it's probably because he'll overheat trying to run in a shirt. But, God, I don't wanna imagine fat people running. Makes me nauseous.

[Norstal]

Please, enlighten me on why you would expose your breasts and posterior then?

Well, I guess it being too hot outside is an excuse, but besides that I can't think of any other reason except wanting people to look.

Which is what happens to women who wear minimalist clothing to go run outside. It's comfortable for them and they don't need some yahoo leering at them because they chose ventilation over perv-armor.
Here's the litmus test: do you feel the same derision about a man who runs shirtless, the whole wanting attention angle I mean?

Damn people for wanting to cool down on a hot summer's day. Or wanting to not wear uncomfortable bras. Or wanting to breastfeed. Or wanting to look nice but not necessarily attract attention.

Damn them all to hell.

[Agymnum]

Which is what happens to women who wear minimalist clothing to go run outside. It's comfortable for them and they don't need some yahoo leering at them because they chose ventilation over perv-armor.
Here's the litmus test: do you feel the same derision about a man who runs shirtless, the whole wanting attention angle I mean?

Damn people for wanting to cool down on a hot summer's day.

Damn them all to hell.

Well I mean that's the only reason I'd ever see minimalist clothes as being non attention-grabbing.

I see plenty of women wear skimpy clothes during cool days, or at the mall where it's like 70 degrees constantly. Don't tell me they're just trying to cool down.

[Norstal]

Damn people for wanting to cool down on a hot summer's day.

Damn them all to hell.

Well I mean that's the only reason I'd ever see minimalist clothes as being non attention-grabbing.

I see plenty of women wear skimpy clothes during cool days, or at the mall where it's like 70 degrees constantly. Don't tell me they're just trying to cool down.

I'm a guy, but have you wore a bra before? Those things can get annoying. I'd imagine it gets more annoying if I had women breasts.

After all, no one was born with a bra.

[Firdausia]

What is there to object to?

The statement I quoted?

I mean, when I go out I way the chances. If I wear something revealing, the chances are that people are more likely to look at me, and of course the opposite if I wear a concealing outfit. If you don't want people to stare you probably shouldn't wear something that will draw attention.

[Agymnum]

Well I mean that's the only reason I'd ever see minimalist clothes as being non attention-grabbing.

I see plenty of women wear skimpy clothes during cool days, or at the mall where it's like 70 degrees constantly. Don't tell me they're just trying to cool down.

I'm a guy, but have you wore a bra before? Those things can get annoying. I'd imagine it gets more annoying if I had women breasts.

After all, no one was born with a bra.

If you're not going to wear a bra, at least wear something that covers the fact you're not wearing one. Just my two cents.

Worn a bra on a dare (I'm fat, so I sorta got like... training-bra level man breasts), and I agree it's rather uncomfortable. Doesn't mean you can't wear something to cover the fact you don't wanna wear a bra.

[Cannot think of a name]

This is only shocking if you want to couch the argument into camps, that if you actually believe that genders operate on a conscious level to participate in the sexual politics of the pervasive culture.

Which is to say that it is inherent in men and a conscious decision on our part where we are all equal participants to place the female form where it is in popular culture.

Of course, if think you about that notion for more than half a second it becomes ridiculous.

This isn't 'shirts vs. skins.'

But the problem is, and perhaps this is where the unwieldy perception comes from, one 'side' suffers a disproportionate amount of the consequences and therefore has a proportionately larger stake in changing the way things are done.

So, we start to view it erroneously as 'men-bad' and people go, "Wait, I'm a man...I don't think I'm a dick, and what the hell, I don't run an ad agency or a media outlet, why the fuck am I getting blamed for all this?" Well, you're not, really. But if you're not aware of it you can end up perpetuating it in your own way.

The same way women can.

Which is what we find here, that women in the broad sense of 'women' are not immune to the pervasive culture anymore than men are even if they are not on the pleasant end of it all.

But if you do view the whole thing as a 'war of the sexes' where your side is picked by your genitals and all the sins of gender are evenly dispersed among those who share sex organs, then this is an "A-HA!" moment for you, even though it shouldn't be.

It should be what it is, verification that this is what the pervasive culture values most. Which has been the point all along.

[Northern Dominus]

Which is what happens to women who wear minimalist clothing to go run outside. It's comfortable for them and they don't need some yahoo leering at them because they chose ventilation over perv-armor.
Here's the litmus test: do you feel the same derision about a man who runs shirtless, the whole wanting attention angle I mean?

If It's any consolation Nadkor I enjoy oggling...your sexy sexy brain

Yeah, probably because he's got a six-pack to show off.

Now, if he's fat like me (FATNESS FTW) it's probably because he'll overheat trying to run in a shirt. But, God, I don't wanna imagine fat people running. Makes me nauseous.

Right, and perhaps they do want atteniton. However I'd imagine the attention they're desiring isn't some schmuck leering while imagning all sorts of deviant thinks. Looking is ok, staring, not so much.

And what constitutes "skimpy" in your estimation anyway?

[Nadkor]

The statement I quoted?

Explain what reason you'd have other than temperature or because you want people to look.

1) I like the clothes, despite them showing a bit
2) I like how I look in the clothes, despite them showing a bit
3) I don't mind a few glances (because every woman gets that and you get used to it, but that doesn't mean I don't want creepy people leering)
4) I want one particular person to look at me

And, in regard to number 4, here's an important lesson: wearing particular items of clothing because I want one particular person to look does not mean that I want everyone, or even anyone other than that one person, to look.

[Agymnum]

Yeah, probably because he's got a six-pack to show off.

Now, if he's fat like me (FATNESS FTW) it's probably because he'll overheat trying to run in a shirt. But, God, I don't wanna imagine fat people running. Makes me nauseous.

Right, and perhaps they do want atteniton. However I'd imagine the attention they're desiring isn't some schmuck leering while imagning all sorts of deviant thinks. Looking is ok, staring, not so much.

And what constitutes "skimpy" in your estimation anyway?

Exposing shoulders and chest above stomach at the same time. In essence, I'll take it as not skimpy if it's not a swimsuit or a glorified bra.

[Northern Dominus]

Right, and perhaps they do want atteniton. However I'd imagine the attention they're desiring isn't some schmuck leering while imagning all sorts of deviant thinks. Looking is ok, staring, not so much.

And what constitutes "skimpy" in your estimation anyway?

Exposing shoulders and chest above stomach at the same time. In essence, I'll take it as not skimpy if it's not a swimsuit or a glorified bra.

If that's skimpy in your estimation then you need to get out more...

And I stand by my first assertion: just because something is advertised does not give anybody the license to make somebody uncomfortable by leering, period. A glance or a lingering gaze, perhaps, but anything beyond that hell no.

[Agymnum]

Exposing shoulders and chest above stomach at the same time. In essence, I'll take it as not skimpy if it's not a swimsuit or a glorified bra.

If that's skimpy in your estimation then you need to get out more...

And I stand by my first assertion: just because something is advertised does not give anybody the license to make somebody uncomfortable by leering, period. A glance or a lingering gaze, perhaps, but anything beyond that hell no.

What do you expect from someone who RPs a nation bent around learning and science?

I'm a friggin' computer-tan, fat Asian nerd.

[Northern Dominus]

If that's skimpy in your estimation then you need to get out more...

And I stand by my first assertion: just because something is advertised does not give anybody the license to make somebody uncomfortable by leering, period. A glance or a lingering gaze, perhaps, but anything beyond that hell no.

What do you expect from someone who RPs a nation bent around learning and science?

I'm a friggin' computer-tan, fat Asian nerd.

Not leering at women who don't wear niquabs for a start?

[Christmahanikwanzikah]

In other news: Bears, water, pope, etc.

Oh my!

[Nadkor]

If you don't want people to stare you probably shouldn't wear something that will draw attention.

This is a mind-bogglingly stupid statement.

I don't wear particularly revealing clothing very often, despite the fact that there are plenty of times when I might like to because of one of the reasons I noted previously, because people staring and leering makes me feel very uncomfortable and intimidated. I am not okay that I have to restrict my choice of clothing because some people can't keep their eyes to themselves.

I object to people making statements such as yours that reinforce the idea that it's fine for people to leer and stare at people in a way that makes them feel uncomfortable and intimidated, reinforcing the idea that a woman's body is some kind of public property to be poured over and that if she doesn't want people to treat her body as such she should have to cover it up.

Frankly, it's only a small step from "if she didn't want to get felt up she shouldn't have worn a skirt that short", and it's pathetic.

[Agymnum]

What do you expect from someone who RPs a nation bent around learning and science?

I'm a friggin' computer-tan, fat Asian nerd.

Not leering at women who don't wear niquabs for a start?

You expect too much from people who spend their lives on the internet.

Seriously, though, I don't necessarily leer at people. I just disapprove mentally. I'm not going to go out of my way to make a woman uncomfortable on her choice of dress - that wastes my time and hers - but I sure as hell am not gonna praise her for her choice in fashion.

[Christmahanikwanzikah]

Frankly, it's only a small step from "if she didn't want to get felt up she shouldn't have worn a skirt that short", and it's pathetic.

It's all your ladies' fault for making my pants uncomfortably tight.









... Not surprisingly, I'm quite okay with this.

[Norstal]

Frankly, it's only a small step from "if she didn't want to get felt up she shouldn't have worn a skirt that short", and it's pathetic.

It's all your ladies' fault for making my pants uncomfortably tight.









... Not surprisingly, I'm quite okay with this.

No, I think it's gay men who designed our pants.

[Christmahanikwanzikah]

It's all your ladies' fault for making my pants uncomfortably tight.









... Not surprisingly, I'm quite okay with this.

No, I think it's gay men who designed our pants.

brb, boycotting pants