Women objectify women too

[Big Jim P]

I don't know. I've seen some damn scary women in my day.

No, as a man your male privilege means you are incapable of being the wronged party.

Bullshit.

[Mini Miehm]

If a person dresses to secure attention, they shouldn't object to wherever that attention comes from. I may not WANT looks from a fat hairy woman with three chins, but if I get it, I did dress to grab it, so it is my fault. I can't exactly yell at her when I went out looking for looks.

And what if they get that kind of attention without dressing to "get noticed" as you've postulated? What then?

In that case I would suggest objection to be acceptable. Personally I enjoy people looking at me, but some people may find it uncomfortable, and if they did not go seeking such attention they would be validated in objecting. However, my argument has hinged largely on clothing as social cue to desire for attention. I do not feel that my position is invalid, as I use my own clothing as social cue for attention.

[Des-Bal]

Bullshit.

Damn right.

[Big Jim P]

Yes, because people think to themselves "this dress is gonna make guys just stare at my ass." Revealing clothes makes some people feel sexy on a personal level. It's not all about your penis.

The fact that some people keep compulsively trying to make it all about their dicks says very bad things about them.

Last time I checked, I didn't look at ANYTHING with my dick.

*Sometimes, I really wonder just WHAT is on the other side of my screen*

[Neo Art]

If a person dresses to secure attention, they shouldn't object to wherever that attention comes from.

Again, utter nonsense. And to even suggest that demonstrates a severe misunderstanding of how humans interract. Just because you want one person to do something, doesn't mean you want ANYONE to do something.

I live in a major metropolitan area. I see women dressed provacatively ALL THE TIME. Is that an invitation to stare at them? of course not. Because even if they're dressed to impressed, even if they're wanting attention, I'm not going to assume that it's MY attention they want.

To assume otherwise is to place myself in some weird position that assumes every woman on the street with a low cut shirt wants me staring at their tits. And even I am not quite that egotistical.

[Mini Miehm]

If a person dresses to secure attention, they shouldn't object to wherever that attention comes from. I may not WANT looks from a fat hairy woman with three chins, but if I get it, I did dress to grab it, so it is my fault. I can't exactly yell at her when I went out looking for looks.

Yes, because people think to themselves "this dress is gonna make guys just stare at my ass." Revealing clothes makes some people feel sexy on a personal level. It's not all about your penis.

This shirt is gonna make people stare at my abs. And these jeans make more than just my ass look good. I like this. If you wear revealing clothes for any other reason than to seek attention, I think you're odd.

[Old Erisia]

The fact that some people keep compulsively trying to make it all about their dicks says very bad things about them.

Last time I checked, I didn't look at ANYTHING with my dick.

*Sometimes, I really wonder just WHAT is on the other side of my screen*

One day you might find out

[Northern Dominus]

And what if they get that kind of attention without dressing to "get noticed" as you've postulated? What then?

In that case I would suggest objection to be acceptable. Personally I enjoy people looking at me, but some people may find it uncomfortable, and if they did not go seeking such attention they would be validated in objecting. However, my argument has hinged largely on clothing as social cue to desire for attention. I do not feel that my position is invalid, as I use my own clothing as social cue for attention.

Except the "validity" of your argument is subjective and contextual. What of women's running attire? Are they still subject to your standards because they had the gall to pick out clothing that allows them to be cool and move freely rather than running in a niqab?
The outfit is just as short as your "attention seeking" example but the purpose is different, but according your standards the results are the same and deserved in both cases.

[Zaras]

And what if they get that kind of attention without dressing to "get noticed" as you've postulated? What then?

In that case I would suggest objection to be acceptable. Personally I enjoy people looking at me, but some people may find it uncomfortable, and if they did not go seeking such attention they would be validated in objecting. However, my argument has hinged largely on clothing as social cue to desire for attention. I do not feel that my position is invalid, as I use my own clothing as social cue for attention.

Yikes, your post reminds me of Derailing for Dummies. Not a good sign at all.

The Marginalised Person™ you’re dealing with has been subjected to this “othering”.

This means that their body is viewed as public property and the personal, intricate details of their lives and being are perceived as free information.

You must nod patiently as the Marginalised Person™ tries to gain your understanding of the many complicated and subtle ways this othering impacts their lives until they come across a point that seems particularly grating for them. Then you must say “oh, but I experience that too!”

For example, people of African descent often express outrage and irritation at the fact many white people believe they can freely touch their hair. This invasion of their personal space is dressed up as flattery - “oh, what beautiful hair you have!” and permission is not sought or granted before the action is taken. “That happens to everyone!” you must exclaim. “My child has beautiful white-blonde hair and people are always touching it!”

What this demonstrates is your total lack of understanding of what “othering” means in a practical sense. You’re ignoring the way your life is otherwise entirely immersed in a state of absolute privilege and revealing the fact you fail to comprehend the process of objectification and marginalising they go through all the time. When you are Privileged®, “similar” experiences simply do not happen on an equal footing because they do not otherwise reflect marginalisation. This obliviousness is highly insensitive and trivialising and will definitely cause them to grind their teeth!

Privileged People® are accustomed, after all, to it being “all about them”. Not used to simply sitting back and listening to othered people‘s issues, Privileged People® like to be the centre of attention at all times. It reminds them that they are important. By doing this, you will feel good about yourself and send a crucial message to the Marginalised Person™ (yes you really can diminish their experience by making it all about you, all the time!).

[Big Jim P]

Last time I checked, I didn't look at ANYTHING with my dick.

*Sometimes, I really wonder just WHAT is on the other side of my screen*

One day you might find out

Indeed. It is that fear-fascination that keeps me here.

[Northern Dominus]

If a person dresses to secure attention, they shouldn't object to wherever that attention comes from.

Again, utter nonsense. And to even suggest that demonstrates a severe misunderstanding of how humans interract. Just because you want one person to do something, doesn't mean you want ANYONE to do something.

I live in a major metropolitan area. I see women dressed provacatively ALL THE TIME. Is that an invitation to stare at them? of course not. Because even if they're dressed to impressed, even if they're wanting attention, I'm not going to assume that it's MY attention they want.

To assume otherwise is to place myself in some weird position that assumes every woman on the street with a low cut shirt wants me staring at their tits. And even I am not quite that egotistical.

This is pretty much the end of the whole matter. Assuming a woman is dressed in a particular matter because they want your attention and judgement is not only a fallacy, it probably points to a high degree of narcissistic tendencies as well.

[Des-Bal]

In that case I would suggest objection to be acceptable. Personally I enjoy people looking at me, but some people may find it uncomfortable, and if they did not go seeking such attention they would be validated in objecting. However, my argument has hinged largely on clothing as social cue to desire for attention. I do not feel that my position is invalid, as I use my own clothing as social cue for attention.

Yikes, your post reminds me of Derailing for Dummies. Not a good sign at all.

The Marginalised Person™ you’re dealing with has been subjected to this “othering”.

This means that their body is viewed as public property and the personal, intricate details of their lives and being are perceived as free information.

You must nod patiently as the Marginalised Person™ tries to gain your understanding of the many complicated and subtle ways this othering impacts their lives until they come across a point that seems particularly grating for them. Then you must say “oh, but I experience that too!”

For example, people of African descent often express outrage and irritation at the fact many white people believe they can freely touch their hair. This invasion of their personal space is dressed up as flattery - “oh, what beautiful hair you have!” and permission is not sought or granted before the action is taken. “That happens to everyone!” you must exclaim. “My child has beautiful white-blonde hair and people are always touching it!”

What this demonstrates is your total lack of understanding of what “othering” means in a practical sense. You’re ignoring the way your life is otherwise entirely immersed in a state of absolute privilege and revealing the fact you fail to comprehend the process of objectification and marginalising they go through all the time. When you are Privileged®, “similar” experiences simply do not happen on an equal footing because they do not otherwise reflect marginalisation. This obliviousness is highly insensitive and trivialising and will definitely cause them to grind their teeth!

Privileged People® are accustomed, after all, to it being “all about them”. Not used to simply sitting back and listening to othered people‘s issues, Privileged People® like to be the centre of attention at all times. It reminds them that they are important. By doing this, you will feel good about yourself and send a crucial message to the Marginalised Person™ (yes you really can diminish their experience by making it all about you, all the time!).

1st of all if that book is where you got "priviliged" from burn the fucking thing.
2nd speaking of derailing we are way the fuck off topic.

[Old Erisia]

Yes, because people think to themselves "this dress is gonna make guys just stare at my ass." Revealing clothes makes some people feel sexy on a personal level. It's not all about your penis.

This shirt is gonna make people stare at my abs. And these jeans make more than just my ass look good. I like this. If you wear revealing clothes for any other reason than to seek attention, I think you're odd.

Yes, your choice of clothing had absolutely nothing to do with your personal satisfaction with your physique. It's all about other people and nebulous "attention."

I don't care if you think I'm "odd."

[Nadkor]

Plus, don't all people want attention to some degree or another to start with? Singling out women for it is pointless.

The difference is no men have shown objection and it's been suggested that men don't need to be afraid of women staring at them.

Except that, as we know, men don't get the same type or degree of attention or staring.

[Ecans]

Here is a BIG secret...


Are you ready?


Women mostly dress to impress not men but other women!

Many intelligent, independant and confident women have said as much. Make of it what you will

[Zaras]

1st of all if that book is where you got "priviliged" from burn the fucking thing.

Way to prove the authors' point.

[Des-Bal]

Except that, as we know, men don't get the same type or degree of attention or staring.

Yes, so the point of this discussion is that men are awful.

[Nadkor]

If a person dresses to secure attention, they shouldn't object to wherever that attention comes from.

Again, utter nonsense. And to even suggest that demonstrates a severe misunderstanding of how humans interract. Just because you want one person to do something, doesn't mean you want ANYONE to do something.

I live in a major metropolitan area. I see women dressed provacatively ALL THE TIME. Is that an invitation to stare at them? of course not. Because even if they're dressed to impressed, even if they're wanting attention, I'm not going to assume that it's MY attention they want.

To assume otherwise is to place myself in some weird position that assumes every woman on the street with a low cut shirt wants me staring at their tits. And even I am not quite that egotistical.

Yup, that pretty much covers it.

I should just let Neo Art argue for me from now on.

[The Republic Of Ardenhelm]

I can almost guarantee that none of the people on this page have girlfriends and have no skill with girls.

(and the people who quote this message are just admitting to it)

[Northern Dominus]

This shirt is gonna make people stare at my abs. And these jeans make more than just my ass look good. I like this. If you wear revealing clothes for any other reason than to seek attention, I think you're odd.

Yes, your choice of clothing had absolutely nothing to do with your personal satisfaction with your physique. It's all about other people and nebulous "attention."

I don't care if you think I'm "odd."

Plus here's another wrinkle; he makes the assumption that all "revealing" womens clothing is worn for the expressed purpose of inviting attention.
I already pointed out that some running and athletic gear is pretty short to offer an extended unencumbered range of motion. Revealing yes, intended for a show, no.

However he's something else for consideration; perhaps the woman in question who is wearing that revealing outfit is wearing it out of convenience on a hot day. Perhaps instead of inviting attention they instead decided to be cool or comfortable and, gasp, aren't encumbered by the slut-shaming or sexuality-shaming that the majority of society has been browbeaten with. Perhaps they're comfortable in their own skin and wearing it because they're comfy and not to invite stares and catcalls.

Just a thought.

[Nadkor]

Except that, as we know, men don't get the same type or degree of attention or staring.

Yes, so the point of this discussion is that men are awful.

No? Maybe if you're incapable of reading; as you will note, the OP said that women and men look at women the same way and they look at men the same way, but they do not look at women and men the same way.

The point of that, in particular, is that comparing men's reactions to being looked at the women's reactions to being looked at is not a valid comparison, as men and women are not subject to the same treatment.

[Old Erisia]

Again, utter nonsense. And to even suggest that demonstrates a severe misunderstanding of how humans interract. Just because you want one person to do something, doesn't mean you want ANYONE to do something.

I live in a major metropolitan area. I see women dressed provacatively ALL THE TIME. Is that an invitation to stare at them? of course not. Because even if they're dressed to impressed, even if they're wanting attention, I'm not going to assume that it's MY attention they want.

To assume otherwise is to place myself in some weird position that assumes every woman on the street with a low cut shirt wants me staring at their tits. And even I am not quite that egotistical.

Yup, that pretty much covers it.

I should just let Neo Art argue for me from now on.

But but if that's true, so many of these posters can't justify their own behavior!!!

[Big Jim P]

I can almost guarantee that none of the people on this page have girlfriends and have no skill with girls.

(and the people who quote this message are just admitting to it)

You are 50% correct in my case. I have no girlfriend.

[Northern Dominus]

Again, utter nonsense. And to even suggest that demonstrates a severe misunderstanding of how humans interract. Just because you want one person to do something, doesn't mean you want ANYONE to do something.

I live in a major metropolitan area. I see women dressed provacatively ALL THE TIME. Is that an invitation to stare at them? of course not. Because even if they're dressed to impressed, even if they're wanting attention, I'm not going to assume that it's MY attention they want.

To assume otherwise is to place myself in some weird position that assumes every woman on the street with a low cut shirt wants me staring at their tits. And even I am not quite that egotistical.

Yup, that pretty much covers it.

I should just let Neo Art argue for me from now on.

But that means no more sexy sexy combacks for me to oogle...

Waitasec, that's deliberate isn't it?

Damn you're good...

[Zaras]

I can almost guarantee that none of the people on this page have girlfriends and have no skill with girls.

(and the people who quote this message are just admitting to it)

I'm not proud of it at all.